Diet Thread

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Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:48 pm

The latest research, published online today by the American Heart Association's journal Circulation, found that people who consume fast food even once a week increase their risk of dying from coronary heart disease by 20 percent in comparison to people who avoid fast food. For people eating fast food two-three times each week, the risk increases by 50 percent, and the risk climbs to nearly 80 percent for people who consume fast food items four or more times each week.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-07/uoma-ffi062912.php#_blank
This is for a Chinese based population, but still quite telling of the dangers of fast food.

Looks like AU is getting close to the US when it comes to eating veg.
More than 99 per cent of children and 96 per cent of adults do not eat the recommended amount of vegetables, according to the report released by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare on Wednesday.

Article:
https://www.9news.com.au/health/2018/06/20/05/16/most-australian-adults-overweight-report
Report:
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-health/australias-health-2018/contents/table-of-contents

More than half of NSW men are overweight or obese, according to the government, lowering their life expectancy and taking a massive toll on the state's health system.
https://www.9news.com.au/health/2018/06/12/05/21/half-of-nsw-men-overweight-says-govt

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:59 pm

Nobody wrote:
More than 99 per cent of children and 96 per cent of adults do not eat the recommended amount of vegetables, according to the report released by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare on Wednesday.

Article:
https://www.9news.com.au/health/2018/06/20/05/16/most-australian-adults-overweight-report
Report:
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-health/australias-health-2018/contents/table-of-contents


the elephant in the doctor's rooms.

Rorschach
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:51 pm

Rorschach wrote:This week I got a very attractive splint to help my sleep apnoea and despite having only worn it for a couple of nights and still feeling tired on a morning, I have noticed my mood and motivation improve over the last couple of days. I even spent an hour planning out some routes on Strava to increase my cycling distances. Hoping to get to use one at the weekend!
Anyway, thought that was worth saying.
Bit of an update on this now that I've had the splint about 10 days.
While I'm still feeling pretty shattered, my mood and motivation have definitely improved. I've got more drive to get stuff done and am noticing I'm not getting annoyed with people or situations nearly as easily.
As an aside, I've also not been eating as much. Just not feeling as hungry, and as a consequence have dropped a kg this week by doing nothing additional.

march83
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:39 pm

Lots of studies link better sleep, circadian rhythm, mood and motivation. There are strong links here: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=circ ... e&ie=UTF-8

Avoiding blue light, good sleep hygiene and reducing caffeine intake are but a few of the things you can also look into to improve sleep quality that can have a notable impact on other aspects of your life.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:46 pm

march83 wrote:Lots of studies link better sleep, circadian rhythm, mood and motivation. There are strong links here: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=circ ... e&ie=UTF-8

Avoiding blue light, good sleep hygiene and reducing caffeine intake are but a few of the things you can also look into to improve sleep quality that can have a notable impact on other aspects of your life.
Cheers for that. CKinnard posted some good links as well, so this'll be further bedtime reading!

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:25 am

Air New Zealand's meatless 'Impossible Burger' upsets beef industry

I thought some might be interested in how mainstream some vegan options are getting. The response from the status-quo players is not surprising.

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:00 pm

Nobody wrote:Air New Zealand's meatless 'Impossible Burger' upsets beef industry

I thought some might be interested in how mainstream some vegan options are getting. The response from the status-quo players is not surprising.


I'm also wondering if there's some handling benefits with using the product. There's a lot of difficulties in providing food on aeroplanes that doesn't happen on the ground
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:24 pm

I'm a bit sus on articles promoting super foods, not so much because the claims may be true/false but more so because people are searching for the silver bullet rather than reviewing and transitioning their current situation

https://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/story/5512240/nuts-supercharge-quality-of-sperm-study/

The article doesn't reference the source of the information or how the study was conducted but I have no doubt that an improvement in nutrition will lead to better male health. And the various aspects of the male reproductive system could be argued to be a good predictor of male health in general
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:28 am

mikesbytes wrote:The article doesn't reference the source of the information or how the study was conducted but I have no doubt that an improvement in nutrition will lead to better male health. And the various aspects of the male reproductive system could be argued to be a good predictor of male health in general


After looking into it, this study has not been published yet. It's results were just delivered at a Spanish conference, and due to the topic, picked up by click bait dependent media.

Studies such as this should not be extrapolated broadly from. There are too many variables that impact fertility and sperm count, that if not matched between control and experimental groups, would render differences insignificant.
i.e.

the following decrease male fertility:
- higher bodyfat %,
- activity levels (too low OR high have adverse effects)
- saturated fat intake
- late nights or poor sleep generally
- simple sugar intake and insulin resistance
- alcohol
- the ubiquitous chronic stress (cortisol), inflammation, oxidation.
- standard western diet, with its accompanying nutrient deficiencies.

Matching all those variables between control andexperimental groups isn't going to happen.

Nevertheless, sperm counts in the West have plummeted over 50% in the last 40-50 years.

One controversial point re male fertility is the effect of soy products.
When bodyfat % is controlled for, the association between soy consumption and reduced male fertility breaks down.
Besides, moderate soy consumption has been high for centuries in Asian populations, and male fertilty there is not adversely effected.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:27 pm

Cheers CK, what you have written is spot on to what I thought, you have confirmed it.

On a less healthy note I was out at a beach style location in Sydney (La Perouse). We decided to buy unhealthy lunch but include a salad. The choice selected was seafood basket for 2 and a small greek salad. But consumed by 3 adults and 2 small children. So we played a game of psychology - reducing the portion and substituting the missing proportion with greek salad, which of course does contain calories. Everyone felt satisfied despite the modest serving of seafood basket.

Also as an unexpected benefit my lady was so impressed with the greek salad that she is going to make it for dinner tonight. Getting the family members interested in vegetables has/is been a huge challenge.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:15 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Also as an unexpected benefit my lady was so impressed with the greek salad that she is going to make it for dinner tonight. Getting the family members interested in vegetables has/is been a huge challenge.


Mike, "interest in vege" is a topic all its own, and setting healthy eating preferences begins when kids are toddlers.
If it doesn't begin then, kids are invariably going to prefer excess sweetness and develop insulin resistance before their teens.

Forty plus years ago, kids didn't have discretion re what they ate.
They ate the food their parents dictated.
It's a mistake to think a child's appetite and taste preferences naturally prefer a healthy diet, which is why parents need to be benevolent dictators re this, and not cave in to bleatings for sugar and other simple carbs, salt, and deep fried anything.

p.s. just to clarfiy, I am not patronizing you as I don't know your circumstances. I am just talking in general.
I do believe several generations of kids have been brought up now on a poor diet, and these are unlikely to switch to a healthier diet until chronic disease compels that, or early disability.

https://www.eatforhealth.gov.au/food-es ... scents-and
https://daa.asn.au/smart-eating-for-you ... /children/
https://www.kidspot.com.au/health/early ... 6da8435091

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:08 pm

CKinnard wrote:Forty plus years ago, kids didn't have discretion re what they ate.
They ate the food their parents dictated.
It's a mistake to think a child's appetite and taste preferences naturally prefer a healthy diet, which is why parents need to be benevolent dictators re this, and not cave in to bleatings for sugar and other simple carbs, salt, and deep fried anything.
Yes and while the timing is out, that fit's pretty close to what I've coined the 1950's diet.

The other week at the shopping centre a group of about 20 teenagers who are studying arts and their teacher were there for lunch. All the teenagers except 1 ate KFC or McDonalds and the 1 ate rather unhealthly looking Chinese. The teacher ate reasonably healthy.


Thanks for links, I'll drip feed them to the lady
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

RhapsodyX
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:38 pm

Were our grandparents really healthier than us? - interesting discussion re. what people were eating pre WW-II.

march83
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:56 pm

So last week I burnt 16,000 calories on the bike and I finished the week a full kilogram heavier. To maintain weight I think I would have needed to eat ~29,000 calories which I find difficult to comprehend - at 100cal/100g it's 29kg of food in a week, over 4kg a day. Not saying I didn't do it, but I just have difficulty wrapping my head around eating that much food...

My partner has been going to Blacktown every weekend to do the grocery shopping. Fresh fruit and veg is super cheap (as I'm sure it is in lots of other suburban centres with large immigrant populations) especially my beloved purple and white sweet potatoes so they've become my staple.

I'm pretty sure I'm carrying a disgusting amount of fibre in my gut from eating a few sweeties per day. I'm eating more salt than usual to try to maintain some sort of electrolyte balance so I'm probably carrying lots of water weight. I'm trying to up my protein and fat a little too - eating a handful of nuts a day, plus aiming for carb sources with a bit more protein than usual (beans, peas, quinoa, etc).

This is on the back of a change of work situation. I've moved offices so my commute is longer and the trains are inconvenient so I've given up on them.

Legs feel great, but I'm not sure how long that will last...
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:01 pm

4Kg a day, that must be difficult...

I've noticed that those who have perceptions will reject a particular type of food without even tasting it but if you don't tell them what's in it, they will eat it and enjoy it.

This example is a bit sneaky, I've never done anything like this - https://www.businessinsider.com.au/vegan-mince-woolworths-funky-fields-2018-7
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:4Kg a day, that must be difficult...

It isn't after you're used to it. Give it some months. I eat a minimum of 4 kg per day and often 5 kg/d. 4.8 kg today.
Last edited by Nobody on Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:10 pm

march83 wrote:So last week I burnt 16,000 calories on the bike and I finished the week a full kilogram heavier. To maintain weight I think I would have needed to eat ~29,000 calories which I find difficult to comprehend - at 100cal/100g it's 29kg of food in a week, over 4kg a day. Not saying I didn't do it, but I just have difficulty wrapping my head around eating that much food....


I'd be interested in how you calculated the 16,000 Cal burn.
How many k's did you do and over what kind of terrain? hilly, flat? and at what average speed?
I've ridden 320km in a day, or 450km on a weekend, and been heavier for 3-4 days afterwards.

The additional weight in the short term can be due to
- fluid retention associated with muscle microtrauma and inflammation.
- acute upregulation of glycogen stores, each molecule retaining 3-4 molecules of water.
- you can also have additional contents (and attracted water) in the gut from the additional food you eat while riding.
- over several weeks, you will also have some muscle hypertrophy in response to the tissue damage.

I'd suggest you track your waist circumference over the next few weeks. Weight loss from long multiday rides can take a couple of weeks to become apparent.

Either way, these experiences drive home that weight mgt/loss is very much about controlling energy put in the mouth!
And the energy content of food is not well communicated by mainstream health pros imho.
Most Australian dietitians don't use energy density as a learning aid.
They rely on the 'serves' concept, which is an abstraction that complicates a clear understanding of energy density.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Lillian-Wilson » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:34 pm

I'm a Vegetarian and I'm aware of the difficulty of getting good protein into my body after a ride, so recovery drinks with Whey Protein in have made a major difference to my recovery.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Lillian-Wilson » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:50 pm

I don't worry about the carbs because they are being burned as fast as I'm putting them in so no worries about excessive insulin responses or depositing fat. I once heard the phrase "fat burning in a carbohydrate fueled flame" and that stuck with me even though I don't remember the source.

I still eat a very carbohydrate controlled diet when I'm not working out but I add carbs as needed to fuel a workout. I do stay away from sports gels and drinks opting instead for oat based granola bars and oatmeal raisin cookies which give me less of the rush and crash than pure sugar products.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:20 am

CKinnard wrote:I'd be interested in how you calculated the 16,000 Cal burn.
How many k's did you do and over what kind of terrain? hilly, flat? and at what average speed?
I've ridden 320km in a day, or 450km on a weekend, and been heavier for 3-4 days afterwards.


500km week in about 18hrs, mostly on my commuter with a dynamo and a backpack so very draggy. Calories come straight from various trustworthy powermeters. Garmin spits out slightly lower numbers than strava who inflate by about 10% (I think they work with a 0.23 efficiency, while garmin work with 0.25). I average about 800-900 calories an hour riding at a fast cruise, zone 3 I guess.

The additional weight in the short term can be due to
- fluid retention associated with muscle microtrauma and inflammation.
- acute upregulation of glycogen stores, each molecule retaining 3-4 molecules of water.
- you can also have additional contents (and attracted water) in the gut from the additional food you eat while riding.
- over several weeks, you will also have some muscle hypertrophy in response to the tissue damage.

I'd suggest you track your waist circumference over the next few weeks. Weight loss from long multiday rides can take a couple of weeks to become apparent.


Yeah, I think it's a combination of a few factors. Inflammation, glycogen and water coming and going and massive amounts of fibre in my gut. I've also come off a few weeks rest and my weight has been slowly climbing over that time - Definitely a little bit of "holiday spread", but I've also caught up on some much needed recovery so I may have actually managed some hypertrophy and I think my long-depleted muscle glycogen might have had a time to properly replenish too. I'm interested to know whether other things like bone mineralisation can occur rapidly enough to impact weight.

Yep, I think the measuring tape is probably the way to go for a few weeks to see what's really happening.

Either way, these experiences drive home that weight mgt/loss is very much about controlling energy put in the mouth!
And the energy content of food is not well communicated by mainstream health pros imho.
Most Australian dietitians don't use energy density as a learning aid.
They rely on the 'serves' concept, which is an abstraction that complicates a clear understanding of energy density.


Absolutely. Can't outrun a bad diet, which I think was part of the point I was trying to make - my appetite will just keep on ramping up and ramping up. My appetite goes to calorie dense foods like nuts and dried fruits instead of the usual low calorie veggies. Hoping I can get back into my routine, but the high volume does seem to derange my appetite somewhat.

Calorie density, I watched my sister make her dinner last night and didn't see a single thing on her plate with an energy density lower than about 3cal/g. She's morbidly obese, but doesn't see anything wrong with her situation :roll:
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:55 pm

Right, back into it.
A week off in VIC skiing with mates saw me put on 3kgs, mainly in the form of amber fizzy liquid.
A busted rib skiing might put me off the bike this week, but starting with good habits has seen me drop 2kgs already since getting back on Saturday.
I'm getting better sleep, and now have tuned my mouth splint, mood is better and motivation is better. Generally eating less (without really changing anything, appetite is just not there), and have reduced my coffee intake to help smooth things out.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:40 pm

LDL aggregation -> cardiovascular disease death... Vit E & sugars.

Das Science. The key bit :
The best model included just two components from the food diaries: changes in dietary vitamin E and changes in dietary sucrose (Table 3). Decreased aggregation susceptibility was associated with increased dietary vitamin E and decreased dietary sucrose consumption. An increase in dietary vitamin E is considered a useful marker of increased consumption of vegetable oils rich in polyunsaturated fatty acids, and both were significantly associated with increased proportion of PCs and decreased proportion of SMs in plasma LDL particles (see Supplementary Figure S5b). These lipidomics changes were also associated with reduced LDL aggregation susceptibility in the Healthy Nordic diet group (Figure 4C and Supplementary material online, Figure S5b), but no significant associations were observed in the control group (see Supplementary material online, Figure S6a).


EDIT: Not feeling the slightest bit guilty about my ripening avocado collection.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:28 pm

Not a regular "A Current Affair" watcher, but I happened to notice this article on vegan diets and that parents were in court for mal-nourishing their child. An example of why education is so important if you are going to eat differently. The worry is there are books on vegan and WFPB diets that don't educate enough IMO. So you read them, think you know something, then go off and have problems. Or worse still your children have problems.

First six and a half minutes.
https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-affair/2018/episode-143

_____________________________________________________________

I was encouraged to read this on a news site, since it should circulate more widely.
The downsides to eating too much meat as researchers uncover its ‘major effects’ on the world

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:52 pm

Nobody wrote:Not a regular "A Current Affair" watcher, but


Robyn Chuter, the naturopath with the vegan kids who was interviewed is a regular contributor to a WFPB facebook group.
So we've discussed that poor excuse for nutrition information to death.

Dr Kerryn Phelps was consistent in expressing her medical view about nutrition (= ignorant as hell) when she broadcast that rickets is due very much to a lack of dairy. Such a nutritionally ignorant, bigoted, and racist thing to say considering Australia is "the most multicultural" nation on the planet, and 75% of the world's popn is lactose intolerant.

Rickets is actually primarily due to Vitamin D deficiency or disorders, and the rising rate has been attributed to helicopter parents not letting their kids go outside and play, or when they do, slathering on the sunscreen. Gut disturbances also are a significant contributor, but it is banned to query whether vaccinations play a role in these. Ne
Rickets is actually primarily due to Vitamin D deficiency or disorders, and the rising rate has been attributed to helicopter parents not letting their kids go outside and play, or when they do, slathering on the sunscreen. Gut disturbances also are a significant contributor, but it is banned to query whether vaccinations play a role in these. Nevertheless, I had some very interesting discussions with visiting medical specialists and PhDs at True North last year that are eventually going to turn the science and Fascists manipulating the consensus on their narrow and thick heads.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:31 pm

CKinnard wrote:Rickets is actually primarily due to Vitamin D deficiency or disorders, and the rising rate has been attributed to helicopter parents not letting their kids go outside and play, or when they do, slathering on the sunscreen.

School policy with broad rimmed hats in the uniform and more undercover play areas won't help. Especially for children south of Sydney. I've also heard that obesity contributes to vit-D deficiency and there's no shortage of that these days.

As I've had eczema again this winter, so I've been taking about 2000 IU of vit-D (in liquid form) for about 3 weeks. I plan to continue until late spring. So far an eczema cream and regulating what I eat have both had more effect. But added vit-D probably won't harm and it was worth finding out if it was a factor.

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