Diet Thread

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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:48 pm

Nobody wrote:School policy with broad rimmed hats in the uniform and more undercover play areas won't help. Especially for children south of Sydney. I've also heard that obesity contributes to vit-D deficiency and there's no shortage of that these days.

As I've had eczema again this winter, so I've been taking about 2000 IU of vit-D (in liquid form) for about 3 weeks. I plan to continue until late spring. So far an eczema cream and regulating what I eat have both had more effect. But added vit-D probably won't harm and it was worth finding out if it was a factor.


Yes obesity no doubt adversely effects lots of things. I had an obese girl in with sero negative rheumatoid arthritis 2 days ago (am doing some clinic in regional Victoria while refining their physio operations). Her symptoms flare when she eats junk and the weight stacks on. She wasn't up to hearing about fat spillover.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:25 pm

CKinnard wrote:She wasn't up to hearing about fat spillover.

No surprise. People appear to have a low tolerance for the truth these days. Part of the problem in this "post truth era".

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:07 pm

Nobody wrote:
CKinnard wrote:She wasn't up to hearing about fat spillover.

No surprise. People appear to have a low tolerance for the truth these days. Part of the problem in this "post truth era".


Man, could I tell you some stories.
So many people are SOOOO EMOOOO.
And it isn't just females.
It's almost like we are in a post science post rational era, where emotions take precedence.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:21 pm

CKinnard wrote:
Nobody wrote:
CKinnard wrote:She wasn't up to hearing about fat spillover.

No surprise. People appear to have a low tolerance for the truth these days. Part of the problem in this "post truth era".


Man, could I tell you some stories.
So many people are SOOOO EMOOOO.
And it isn't just females.
It's almost like we are in a post science post rational era, where emotions take precedence.

There ya go. I think you coined a phrase there, so to speak. We're in the post rational era. :)

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:24 pm

I see a lot of the comparisons, both people who are in healthy fat ranges comparing with others in healthy fat ranges and those who are overweight comparing with others that are overweight. A phrase I use sometimes is "be the best off yourself"

The healthy fat range person: "I'm not as slim as."
The overweight fat range person: "I'm slimmer than... therefor I'm OK"
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:24 pm

If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:50 pm


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:21 pm

Interesting quote from the European Society of Cardiology from the below video:
There are strong, consistent, and graded relationships between saturated fat intake, blood cholesterol levels, and the mass occurrence of CVD. The relationships are considered as causal.


Warning: For those offended by such, there is a mention of animal cruelty by the dairy industry in the below video.


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:34 pm

Nobody wrote:Interesting quote from the European Society of Cardiology from the below video:
There are strong, consistent, and graded relationships between saturated fat intake, blood cholesterol levels, and the mass occurrence of CVD. The relationships are considered as causal.


Warning: For those offended by such, there is a mention of animal cruelty by the dairy industry in the below video.



If your fat then you are pretty much at higher risk of almost everything. Consuming a large quantity of a calorie dense product over time will make you fat and this applies to 63?% of the Australian adult population. And I agree that dairy has been marketed as being a healthy product when its use should be limited.

It bugs me that the law does not require that products state their trans fat
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:27 pm



"health professionals" need to ask themselves why young impressionable fat people turn to food bloggers for advice, instead of following govt guidelines or seeing a dietitian.

I can understand bloggers like durianrider and his string of ex lovers being dangerous for the impressionable to listen to.
But not as dangerous as listening to meat and livestock Australia.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:24 pm

mikesbytes wrote:If you're fat then you are pretty much at higher risk of almost everything. Consuming a large quantity of a calorie dense product over time will make you fat and this applies to 63%? of the Australian adult population.

It applies universally. Being thin isn't a cure all, although it definitely helps with type 2 diabetes. I've known a reasonable number of normal/thin people with CVD.

mikesbytes wrote:It bugs me that the law does not require that products state their trans fat

Yes it would be nice if they did declare it. But as per the below, there's an easy way to avoid it.

Spokesperson for the Dietitians Association of Australia and Accredited Practising Dietitian, Nicole Dynan, believes we need to do more as a country to eliminate IPTFA from our food supply. “It’s an industrialised man-made product that produces no benefit to us,” says Dynan. “I don’t see why we need to have it in our food supply.”

Personal improvements in our diet could eliminate trans fats on an individual level: if we don’t eat discretionary foods containing them, then there’s no problem.

“If we can swap a lot of those discretionary foods from our diet and get people eating more wholefoods and grains then they will have less trans fats in their diet,” she says. “But so far, that’s proven to be challenging.” Although it’s correct to say everyone should just stop eating biscuits, pies and microwave popcorn to avoid trans fats, strong dietary advice alone has not eliminated our sugar issue so why would it work for trans fats.

https://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/201 ... ve-problem

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:05 pm

CKinnard wrote:"health professionals" need to ask themselves why young impressionable fat people turn to food bloggers for advice, instead of following govt guidelines or seeing a dietitian.

- Food industries own the governments.
- Lack of funding, advertising and self promotion.
- Various governments globally not policing the false claims, bogus/funded studies and sponsored articles these industries make/fund. I've lost count of how many articles I've seen on supposedly how good eggs are for our health.
- Dietitians are educated to recommend known unhealthy foods. So it should be no surprise that they have an image problem.
I believe the USDA has had an influence over the decades in what dietitians around the world recommend.
Image
Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_group

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:40 pm

Nobody wrote:- Food industries own the governments.
- Lack of funding, advertising and self promotion.
- Various governments globally not policing the false claims, bogus/funded studies and sponsored articles these industries make/fund. I've lost count of how many articles I've seen on supposedly how good eggs are for our health.
- Dietitians are educated to recommend known unhealthy foods. So it should be no surprise that they have an image problem.
I believe the USDA has had an influence over the decades in what dietitians around the world recommend.


I swing between two poles re this topic, and many others.
I tend to be libertarian and small (BUT EFFECTIVE) government.
However, I also appreciate that historically, individualism has to be tempered with responsibility and cooperation with local community.
No man is an island, and being an upstanding member of the community/village has always been critical in Western civilization.
Reputation has been critical until larger cities developed, and work that required less face to face contact.
Nevertheless, I still believe one should work on self development and self initiative foremost. That way you have some more to offer the community. But invariably, reliance on self and community have always been intertwined.

I am waffling about this because it is the basis of what might be done about the obesity issue.
Ultimately, I do believe what a person eats is their personal responsibility....but I also believe it is the responsibilty of parents to bring children up in an informed and disciplined and healthy manner.... however, I think community has to play a role because things have got so bad.
but what price should community pay to steer its members back towards health, especially when appetite is very much tied to culture and belief systems, and these are fragmented these days.

Ah well, I am too tired to ponder it more today. Had a ride up Norton Summit in Adelaide this arvo, and am in need of an early night.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:48 am

The cost to society for making poor food choices is paid by society and not by those selling the products.

Millions is spent every year telling us to purchase convenience food. Hardly any of that marketing tells us what is in it. Information on how to eat better than one does is readily available and is ignored by the majority of the population who receive their eating advice from the marketing machine.

Ironically when cigarette advertising was banned the profits of the cigarette companies went up as they didn't need to spend money on advertising
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:51 pm

skip to 2:40 if you are not into rock climbing.


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:05 pm

Sometimes I wonder if I'm making progress or not. I seem to get better at making vegetables more attractive to others in the household to eat when I'm cooking, but I see less progress in their own initiatives. That's not to say that there has been improvements, I'm saying the improvements are slow
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:22 am

mikesbytes wrote:Sometimes I wonder if I'm making progress or not. I seem to get better at making vegetables more attractive to others in the household to eat when I'm cooking, but I see less progress in their own initiatives. That's not to say that there has been improvements, I'm saying the improvements are slow


Ditto - "at-hand" food is often beaten by "tastes good" (with the assistance of an ingredients list a mile long). I try to maximise the on-hand salads, pre-cooked meals etc., and keep the dodgy convenience foods out of the house - but I'm not the only one who does grocery shopping.

To a degree - I blame flavour enhancers and deliberate "hyper-palatability" : personally I drink ristretto's and enjoy the taste, but to people with a food-industry-skewed-palate it tastes bitter and horrible. I really don't see this changing - you can't get politicians to force the food industry to stop messing with our diet, and "personal responsibility" is like "smoking does't cause cancer", it's marketing BS to make people feel they are solely responsible for their uncontrollable appetite. </rant>

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:46 pm


CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:47 pm

I am going to have to come up with a top 12 questions for nutrition tuber geeks.
i.e
1. what's the best form of Vit. B12 for...
2. should one supplement B12 and folate concurrently?
2. give your guidance for iodine supplementation, and your list of risks for iodine deficiency.
3. what's a safe intake of soy products to avoid adverse sex hormone changes, especially in men.
4. what's better for a healthy anti blood clotting effect? warfarin or lots of cruciferous and dark green leafy vege? And if I have been diagnosed with supraventricular tachycardia or atrial fibrillation, or had a coronary artery bypass graft, should I drop warfarin on a WFPB diet?
.....etc

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:58 pm

CKinnard wrote:i.e
1. what's the best form of Vit. B12 for...
2. should one supplement B12 and folate concurrently?
2. give your guidance for iodine supplementation, and your list of risks for iodine deficiency.

Well, Qs 1, 2 & 2 may be answered below. I don't agree with his conclusion that supplements may have too much contamination to risk using them. But he wants people use seaweed instead? How much contamination can you really get in 2 drops per day? That is versus what are you may pick up from the world's sewer.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:28 pm

CKinnard wrote:I am going to have to come up with a top 12 questions for nutrition tuber geeks.
i.e
1. what's the best form of Vit. B12 for...
2. should one supplement B12 and folate concurrently?
2. give your guidance for iodine supplementation, and your list of risks for iodine deficiency.
3. what's a safe intake of soy products to avoid adverse sex hormone changes, especially in men.
4. what's better for a healthy anti blood clotting effect? warfarin or lots of cruciferous and dark green leafy vege? And if I have been diagnosed with supraventricular tachycardia or atrial fibrillation, or had a coronary artery bypass graft, should I drop warfarin on a WFPB diet?
.....etc


Love it CK, please do it
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:27 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Love it CK, please do it


Yes I don't want to discourage tuber nutrition geeks from their passion. But would like to sort the wheat from the chaff, and stretch the best of them beyond the standard offerings.

While I am at it, I should throw some of the paradoxical findings from the low carb studies at them, which tend to get ignored by the WFBP camp.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:48 pm

CKinnard wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Love it CK, please do it


Yes I don't want to discourage tuber nutrition geeks from their passion. But would like to sort the wheat from the chaff, and stretch the best of them beyond the standard offerings.

While I am at it, I should throw some of the paradoxical findings from the low carb studies at them, which tend to get ignored by the WFBP camp.


I particularly like the one "I'm on medication X, if I follow your diet Y then can I stop taking X" possibly the correct answer from the viewpoint of the tuber promoting Y is "Y will improve your situation considerably but don't stop taking X until your Doctor has advised you its OK to stop" but I'm betting there will be a range of different answers and possibly some tubers who completely ignore the question.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:59 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I particularly like the one "I'm on medication X, if I follow your diet Y then can I stop taking X" possibly the correct answer from the viewpoint of the tuber promoting Y is "Y will improve your situation considerably but don't stop taking X until your Doctor has advised you its OK to stop" but I'm betting there will be a range of different answers and possibly some tubers who completely ignore the question.


These uber researcher geeks and sometimes health pros are entitled to have an opinion based on published research. Most don't read deep enough though to understand and see the ambiguities re a particular issue. i.e. warfarin is a med for reducing risk of inappropriate blood clotting. But eating a healthy diet should be able to do the same, and heal unhealthy arteries simultaneously. The GP line is to advise not to eat significantly dark green leafy plants when taking warfarin. There's a healthier balance though that few drill down to.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:37 pm

CKinnard wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:I particularly like the one "I'm on medication X, if I follow your diet Y then can I stop taking X" possibly the correct answer from the viewpoint of the tuber promoting Y is "Y will improve your situation considerably but don't stop taking X until your Doctor has advised you its OK to stop" but I'm betting there will be a range of different answers and possibly some tubers who completely ignore the question.


These uber researcher geeks and sometimes health pros are entitled to have an opinion based on published research. Most don't read deep enough though to understand and see the ambiguities re a particular issue. i.e. warfarin is a med for reducing risk of inappropriate blood clotting. But eating a healthy diet should be able to do the same, and heal unhealthy arteries simultaneously. The GP line is to advise not to eat significantly dark green leafy plants when taking warfarin. There's a healthier balance though that few drill down to.

Good point CK, in that case even suggesting that their diet Y is dangerous and that brings up the point of not working outside of what you are trained for
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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