Diet Thread

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Baalzamon
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:59 pm

Nobody wrote:For the coffee drinkers. Basically paper filtering coffee drops LDL cholesterol 90% compared to french press or other metal mesh filters.



I might verbally inform my manager of this at work. Since the company is supplying the coffee and french press processing equipment for the staff's coffee. It could be in future counted as (another) company supplied contributor to someone's heart attack. We have an AED (defib) on site. But I'd rather not have to use it on someone. Yes I may be overestimating the risks, but they all add up.


Also old metal dental caps also raise cholesterol. Jimmy Moore found this how when he went to a holistic dentist. Got the caps changed and bang his LDL when down.
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Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:40 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Also old metal dental caps also raise cholesterol. Jimmy Moore found this how when he went to a holistic dentist. Got the caps changed and bang his LDL when down.

Thanks for the tip. :)
I've got a number of old amalgam fillings I've been meaning to have changed.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:49 am

Nobody wrote:Yeah, sorry. That was an oversight by me. I missed the science bit and thought it was referring the current medical industry. Even so, probably an over the top reply. Sorry to all. :oops:
I'll make the excuse that I've had a flu lately. Third time this year. Sure a better diet helps greatly with the chronic type, diet borne illnesses. But it doesn't help much with the acute.

CKinnard wrote:So my view is fasting has not been studied due to the intellectual arrogance and narrow range of personalities attracted into the field.

Which in some ways makes them their own enemy. In that it's like "the illusion of knowledge" in science circles. I've read that even some of the greatest modern scientists often only get one good discovery because their attitude changes toward their work as their fame increases. There is also the idea that the human brain appears to be the most inventive under 30 yo. But that is getting OT.

CKinnard wrote:The slam dunk against LCHF continues to be that no human community has ever thrived on their diet across generations, and that any benefits it has are have also been observed in WFPB diets.

Inefficiency/cost would have to be a factor there. I consider HCLF to be an option of affluence (as it's typically eaten). I have to concede that even my diet (high in fresh fruit & veg) wouldn't really be viable in many poor countries. Or even in this country with a very low income.

I'd argue - regardless of whether we think an individual can do it or not - that an ideal diet could be a large part of the solution to this. Since my fatigue and anxiety levels subjectively dropped significantly when I changed my diet. Some report energy level increasing quickly also. Although this aspect took years to improve in me, which could be due to my haemo complication.


Don't ever apologize Nobody for expressing what you genuinely feel.
I enjoy the challenge. It makes me ponder things more deeply.
As a follow up, I would love to apply to the NHMRC and ARC to fund a pilot study into fasting, just to see what the reaction was.
If they didn't blank refuse, ethics approval would bog things down.

I agree that intellectual arrogance and negative consequences for challenging or embarrassing scientific consensus absolutely works against scientific enquiry. When I look back on my Uni of Qld days, there were 4 out of 60 odd involved in bio research that I would say had a Myers Briggs intuitive (rather than sensate), or Big Five personality trait of "openess to experience". Both these are markers for intellectual curiosity and creativity. The trait is more associated with people more comfortable in the arts.

It is unusual for one to be strong in openess AND conscientiousness (these two traits tend to counter each other).
Another factor adversely impacting scientific enquiry these days is the lack of security in academia and research. This will influence younger post docs to comply more so with expectations of their senior peers.

Re cost of HCLF, I don't necessarily agree. I think the key is to have land availability, in which case one can grow their own vege....as was the convention pre 1980s.
I traveled extensively through India in the early 90s, and there was always vegetables available.
There's a creek I cycle along in Northern Brisbane, and I have noted over the last 10 years, presumably recent migrants picking various greens along its banks. I had a chat to them once and they said they were going to eat them.

I do agree diet alone will be a primary driver in resolving obesity and many diseases.
However, my point is stress is dismissed too casually, or downplayed. And that's a mistake.
How many people go to health farms, even TNH, and get it together, but then once back into their usual life, the wheels fall off.
And I'd include a significant stress is not having like mindeds to support one in resisting the temptations of a disease promoting culture!!! :)

kenwstr
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby kenwstr » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:52 am

Hmm, this looks interesting, I wonder how reliable it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:36 pm

CKinnard wrote:As a follow up, I would love to apply to the NHMRC and ARC to fund a pilot study into fasting, just to see what the reaction was.
If they didn't blank refuse, ethics approval would bog things down.

So I take it you won't because not being a scientist they won't take you seriously? Could you convince someone who is in the scientific body that it might be worthwhile to study? Yes, still a long shot...

CKinnard wrote:Another factor adversely impacting scientific enquiry these days is the lack of security in academia and research. This will influence younger post docs to comply more so with expectations of their senior peers.

I get the impression that government funding for bigger scientific endeavours are in real terms declining, leaving a greater percentage of business funding. And we all know what the quality of research is going to be with business funding.
Unfortunately lack of job security is becoming an increasingly ubiquitous problem for almost all industries and occupations. Maybe a better time to be self employed. I've played it safe and been fortunate enough to be with my employer for 28 years next month. But that could end at any time, since they are looking to reduce numbers across the whole company in the next few years.

CKinnard wrote:Re cost of HCLF, I don't necessarily agree. I think the key is to have land availability, in which case one can grow their own vege....as was the convention pre 1980s...

Which is entirely the problem. This requires time and land. Both of which are in increasingly short supply as the years go on. There might be land available for this where you are. But they are building units across the road from me currently and if the council allows, I'll probably be selling my place to a developer, or developing it into townhouses from next year. It's either townhouses (usually big ones) or units increasingly around here, near Parramatta.

CKinnard wrote:I do agree diet alone will be a primary driver in resolving obesity and many diseases.
However, my point is stress is dismissed too casually, or downplayed. And that's a mistake.
How many people go to health farms, even TNH, and get it together, but then once back into their usual life, the wheels fall off.
And I'd include a significant stress is not having like mindeds to support one in resisting the temptations of a disease promoting culture!!! :)

My problem with stress as a driver is I can't relate to it easily. I'm sure it exists, but I'm a fairly unique personality type in regard to the example you cite. So I think stress in lifestyle choices are personality dependant. People that are "open to experiences", "agreeable" and "extroverted" should really struggle with the home environment and peer pressure. I'm none of them. My house if full of junk food and overweight/obese, food addicted people, as a team, trying to paint me as foolish, bad, or laughable for having my current lifestyle. If I was going to crack, it would have already happened.

Having said that, I agree with you that not having like mindeds would be a significant problem. That is why the Internet is so important in bringing people together from small minorities who would otherwise have little or no contact with each other. So in relation to that I thank you and others on these threads for their posts. :) Along with other sites like nutritionfacts.org, plantbasednews.org and some YouTubers, you have all helped me to stay focused in a world of dietary disinterest, or even enmity.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:46 pm

kenwstr wrote:Hmm, this looks interesting, I wonder how reliable it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4


I think it suffers from a few problems relating to a single point of view that is based on a few precarious premises.

https://youtu.be/0z03xkwFbw4?t=55s
The belief that, "which diet is best" being a scientific one and therefore not open to opinions or beliefs. Although correct in principle, he is trying to paint diet as simplistic and a question that can be easily answered. But it isn't and it can't be. T. Collin Campbell tries to educate people into taking a whole-perspective in regard to diet, rather than using reduction-ism to try to make something almost infinitely complex (at a bodily enzyme reaction level) simple. So on that aspect alone, the presenters premise fails.

Yes, peoples' microbiome is unique to them. That is true. But he appears to be implying that it's a fixed entity that can't be changed over time. This has been proven not to be true. Although it might be hard to change in that it usually requires a total diet change and weeks to months to adapt. It can be done.

He is also only looking at blood glucose (BG). Way too reductionist. Even if you want to play the reductionist game, what about the myriad of other dietary components, their markers and their affects on one's health? Just because eggs don't spike someone's BG, doesn't mean that eggs are healthy for them. In the US, eggs aren't even allowed to be referred to, or called healthy. Unlike AU where there appears to be a huge amount of marketing on them of late. Eggs are one of the highest density foods (besides brains) for cholesterol. They are also associated with increased risk for type 2 diabetes. Cheese and pizza don't raise BG much for most people. Does that make them healthy? Ice cream is healthy? Really? Americans eat all these things and look at their results at 01:42 of the video. I don't think it's just a microbiome mismatch for the majority of the US population.

https://youtu.be/0z03xkwFbw4?t=1m30s
"People actually generally do follow dietary guidelines." That is so laughable. Peoples' lack of adherence is a common discussion point on here. I doubt most people in the US or AU even know what they are. If everyone were to follow the AU guidelines, taking all the vegan options. I would say there would be very little obesity in this country.

He has a compelling argument and he sells it well. I'm confident his team will end up with ample funding, which for many scientists is the primary focus. But it is simplistic, reductionist and short sighted, IMO.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:44 pm

kenwstr wrote:Hmm, this looks interesting, I wonder how reliable it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4


I think nobody nails it with this guy.
He's pursued a therapeutic intervention (pay us to examine your micorbiome and we'll give you a diet) based on the premise the microbiome is a pretty much predetermined entity.

The amount of literature this guy is ignoring is enormous. As Nobody says, the microbiome changes ratios regularly in response to the food one eats. What's the average generation of bacteria? some species replicate every 20 minutes.

But this high replication rate also accelerates how quickly sub populations can change ratio when different foods are added, or one goes on a very low cal diet, or water fast. Further, this guy is ignoring the weight loss success people have after gastric bypass and sleeve surgery, in which food volume decreases significantly. That wouldn't be possible if microbiome ratio could not be changed by food type and volume.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:52 pm

And who knew exercise effects the microbiome ratio and its production rate of lipopolysaccharides?
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320264.php?sr

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:57 am

From the same site as the link above:
Exercise alone does not achieve weight loss
Exercise and long term weight loss is a highly debatable topic IMO. I think it depends on the individual and exercise often inspires diet change, whether that is consciously or unconsciously.

Fish Oil Supplements Do Not Protect Against Heart Attacks
Better to take algae sourced DHA if you think you need it for brain and retina health as you age. Probably a waste of money for the young who get ample ALA. The cost of the DHA is not much more than the fish oil and worth it to avoid the extra saturated fat and pollutants IMO.
Last edited by Nobody on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:24 pm

Nobody wrote:From the same site as the link above:
Exercise alone does not achieve weight loss
Exercise and long term weight loss is a highly debatable topic IMO. I think it depends on the individual and exercise often inspires diet change, whether that is consciously or unconsciously.


I think variance in personality and determination are lost in many scientific studies. Studies default to excluding statistical outliers, and rather overplay the 'average' behavior of a sample of people.
The popular interpretation of many studies is similar to 'people are likely to have an IQ of 100'....while the std deviation is ignored, especially by the statistically illiterate mainstream media.

Re exercise and weight loss, the truth is most people don't have the time, energy, determination, or body to consistently do more than 3-4 hours of cardio a week at an average intensity rarely exceeding 5 METS (5x BMR).
And when most take up an exercise program for weight loss, the following is typical :
5x45 minute sessions/week (AT) 5 MET average = 15METhours/week beyond BMR.

If their BMR is 1500Cals/day, their exercise energy expenditure above BMR is :

1500/24 BMR Cals/hour * 15 METhours = 937 additional Cals/week burned by the exercise program.

That's an average 134 Calories/day, which can be easily offset by the daily eating of 1.5-2 pieces of bread, or 3/4 cup of cooked grains.

Many people who do take up exercise for weight loss are not disciplined enough to refrain from lifting Calorie intake. This is especially so for those who take up a lot of higher intensity exercise which preferentially burns glucose. This can lead to a greater sense of hunger and carb cravings a few hours over the course of a day.

Further, many tend to reduce their non exercise energy expenditure (become more sedentary when not riding or at gym).

IME, it is only when clients really commit to grasping energy in/out, that they are red pilled into comprehending how important weight loss depends on what goes in their mouth.
Most just don't have the determination to understanding the math, let alone say no.

Further, when some ramp their exercise volume up in a concerted effort to lose weight, say commuting 8 hours a week, and 8 hours on the bike on the weekend, at an average 7METs, that's still only 1500/24 * 16 * (7-1) = an additional 858 Calories/day. That will result in about 850 grams of weight loss per week....if and only if the person doesn't increase their food intake.

The one thing I have observed personally and with clients re weight loss and exercise, is that even a small amount can help blow off the day's stress, and re-regulate endocrine and autonomic function, as well as improve sleep quality. That includes a squirt of testosterone and adrenalin, which improves sense of optimism and mobilizing of free fatty acids. Something many don't think about is when you are sedentary, you do not circulate the volume of blood through your adipose reserves as well as you would when you lift cardiac output via cardio exercise. For hormones to have an effect on any tissue, they have to circulate to that tissue in the first place. I believe exercise helps mobilize free fatty acids by just getting more plasma testosterone and adrenalin to adipocytes.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:45 pm

However people who take up exercise for weight loss people find themselves mixing with people who have above average nutritional skills resulting in nutritional improvements. Typically but not always I find them transgress to focusing on the benefits of exercise for fitness etc

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320174.php?iacp
When people take up exercise, they often restrict their diet — consciously or unconsciously — and this can mask the effects of the exercise
Yes the same people who exercise are the same people who are good with their diets. I stick with the 80/20 rule

I've got a question for CK. I've pondered whether females should have a diet that evolves around their menstrual cycle. Have you put any thought around it?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:38 pm


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:38 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I've got a question for CK. I've pondered whether females should have a diet that evolves around their menstrual cycle. Have you put any thought around it?


Yeah, there's definitely something in that.
I've been around vegetarianism since I was 18, and have known hundreds of vegos and vegans.
Many women tell me and the lit supports it, that a clean diet can reduce menstrual discomfort and blood loss.
but so does maintaining leaner bodyweight.
White adipose tissue (most bodyfat) produces hormones and signal proteins that effect sex hormones, especially estrogen.

Women's general body shape is indicative of their personality and endocrine profile, and I have found women of specific shapes tend to prefer a similar diet.....but these diets can be corrupted by stress or ignorance.
Same for men. I have a good friend who was a professional strong man when young. He has owned gyms and used to appear on tv in the 70s and 80s doing strong man stuff. He would never go WFPB. At 70yo, he still craves dairy, and likes to get two serves of meat a day. He does vege but no where near enough. He reckons he feels weak if he doesn't get the animal stuff. He is a little bullldog in build.

Getting back to women, many have told me their emotions and moods are not as volatile when they move to a vego diet.

In general though, I think too many women these days are not active enough, especially with resistance stuff.
90% of a woman's bone density is established by the age of 19....and too many girls and teens are not getting the activity to build that reserve of bone.

I have been scorned by the mother of some of my young female clients over the years for prescribing heavier exercise for their dainty daughters. When I try to explain the science behind bone density, their eyes just glaze over. Honestly, some people just don't comprehend these extremely important issues.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:36 am



To be fair, it takes more than a week to get any benefits out of a low carb diet. I think "all meat" and "zero carb" diets are foolish for so many reasons but the approach in this article was never really going to get close to seeing any of the potential benefits.

That said, I'm happy to see any article published that may dissuade people from trying such an environmentally unsustainable diet.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:08 pm

Thanks CK, as you say woman will have reduced woman issues if they have a good diet etc.

I was also thinking as part of the question as to whether what females eat should vary in accordance with where they are in their menstrual cycle?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:40 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Thanks CK, as you say woman will have reduced woman issues if they have a good diet etc.

I was also thinking as part of the question as to whether what females eat should vary in accordance with where they are in their menstrual cycle?


Every few years someone writes a book along the lines of 'the menstrual diet'.
Ayurvedic Medicine has age old guidance on diet to ease menstrual cycle related discomfort.

I am out of touch with the details, but recall the following general principles:

when PMS symptoms start, start a Calorie deficit. This is more often late luteal phase.
Reduce carbs, avoid processed carbs (flour products and sugars) but fruit is ok.
One could reduce protein sources as well. This will offset by the body recycling proteins from breakdown of the uterine wall.
Increase anti-inflammatory foods esp good iron sources - dark green leafys and legumes (lentils).
sustain this diet through menstrual phase, and adopt less vigorous exercise and activities (yoga and stretching).

during follicular and ovulation phases, increase carbs and exercise/activity.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:01 pm

This study came across my desk today.

Image


- it involves 3 groups of mice that are allowed to eat ad libitum for 80 odd days.
- the groups eat either a sugar and fat diet (emulating the standard western diet), a sugar and higher fat diet, and standard chow pellets fed to mice (which are high carbohydrate low fat).

The two charts show what happens after the only change is to grind the chow pellets into a fine flour consistency.

Essentially the study shows the chow mice group eat MORE Calories of ground chow vs unground, and thereby get as fat as the other two groups.

This is an interesting study, because it supports that humans may also be less likely to overeat grains in a less processed state (not flour based products, pasta, & noodles!)

Incidentally, part of the hypothesized reason for overeating flour products is that they hit our blood stream quicker, drive up blood glucose higher, and eventually dysregulate insulin regulation more readily.

____________________
And before anyone wonders, laboratory mouse chow pellets consist of coarsely ground grains which are held together with natural products in a manner that emulates absorption rate of unprocessed grains. full contents here:
https://multipurina.ca/en/rodents/products/

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:12 pm

Thanks for posting CK. For some reason I've seen this somewhere before. Yes, interesting to know about and it paints a bad picture for most processed foods. Another piece in the nutrition puzzle.
Related to that, I find that some foods more satiating per calorie than others. Processing, fibre and the hydration of the food (which often relates to Cal density) all seem to play a part. For that reason I find (most, but not all) fruit to be the most satiating per calorie.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:15 am

Nobody wrote:Thanks for posting CK. For some reason I've seen this somewhere before. Yes, interesting to know about and it paints a bad picture for most processed foods. Another piece in the nutrition puzzle.
Related to that, I find that some foods more satiating per calorie than others. Processing, fibre and the hydration of the food (which often relates to Cal density) all seem to play a part. For that reason I find (most, but not all) fruit to be the most satiating per calorie.


Yes I have seen this presentation before but did not reflect on it deeply.
The LCHF advocate Ivor Cummins re-presented it in a recent seminar.
Original paper:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/725D71275CF7399332CEC8C9C76BE23F/S0007114512003340a.pdf/dietinduced_obesity_in_ad_libitumfed_mice_food_texture_overrides_the_effect_of_macronutrient_composition.pdf

Yes it is indication that energy consumed in a form that is easier to digest short circuits satiation signaling.
And anyone looking to lose weight would do well to avoid processed food such as
- all flour based products - bread, pasta, noodles, pancakes, baked items (biscuits, cake)
- processed grains - preferring groats or steel cut oats to rolled oats, whole grains to white.
- eating a higher quantity of raw or minimally cooked foods to cooked - raw vege rather than steamed.
- liquid calories - smoothies, juices, milks, and alcohol

Essentially, as you state, we want MORE water content, unprocessed complete fiber, and chewing.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:05 pm

Yet another reason to drink tap water rather than bottled water

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/09/study-suggests-bpa-free-plastics-are-just-as-harmful-to-health/

Having said that it seems that heating the plastic is of much greater concern. I do ponder if this applies to all plastic or more so single use plastic. However the easy way around it is to not put plastic in the microwave, if the product is in a plastic container then transfer it to a glass or ceramic container, if the product is sitting in glass or ceramic with cling wrap on top, then remove the cling wrap and cover with something, perhaps a plate.

No doubt like many things there's the question as to how picky you want to be, if we were perfect then no plastic at all, time to buy bamboo tooth brushes and sell your car
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Thanks for posting Mike. I've read about this before. But it's nice to see the message being repeated, since it's another issue for people to consider. At least for those chasing maximum health, anyway.

mikesbytes wrote:Yet another reason to drink tap water rather than bottled water.

Yes, if only the modern mains pipes weren't made of plastic too.

mikesbytes wrote:No doubt like many things there's the question as to how picky you want to be, if we were perfect then no plastic at all, time to buy bamboo tooth brushes and sell your car

Cyclists may want to pay some attention to their squeeze-able water bottles, since the BPA/S were designed to be plastic softeners. I've considered changing to hard water bottles, but I can't use the stainless ones due to my haemo problem. I've also considered not using a water bottle at all for shorter and cooler rides. How far does one go? Is food I buy at the supermarket wrapped in cling wrap (like watermelon) a problem? What about plastics in clothes and cycling gear? Plastic bags you put loose fruit and veg in? How about the material of your hand grips or tape on the bike, contacting hands while sweating? The plastic keyboard/mouse that I'm using to enter this post with. Hot plastic handles on pots & pans? Almost endless list these days.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:01 pm

I talked above and before about the effect of processing carbs on satiation signaling and increased absorption speed.

The following presentation goes into this in more detail, which gets pretty convoluted.
https://youtu.be/8rcfvRGZsDs
slides here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LP8HiU4HG_S1Mavs6VBN0IxQgcLF4wSD/view

One of the major take homes arises from less processed carbs being absorbed more evenly along the length of the small intestine.

However, flour based carbs are mostly absorbed in the initial small intestine (duodenum).
This stimulates a higher plasma insulin response, and consequent higher plasma glucose.
Insulin secretion is stimulated by an incretin signaling hormone called GIP (from cells in the duodenum).
How much higher? At least double the level of having equivalent amount of glucose injected into the veins.

OTOH, when carbs are taken in a very UNPROCESSED state, they are absorbed more evenly along the small intestine.
Carbs that make it past the duodenum into the ilium, stimulate another incretin hormone GLP-1. This is a potent satiety signaler.

To summarize:
When you eat refined carbs:
- you overstimulate GIP release and understimulate GLP-1 release.
- this drives up very high plasma insulin and glucose...and reduces satiety significantly.
- high blood glucose results in more of it being sent to fat storage (de novo lipogenesis).

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Patt0 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:54 am

CKinnard wrote:Carbs that make it past the duodenum into the ilium, stimulate another incretin hormone GLP-1. This is a potent satiety signaler.



Or maybe a trigger to stop the consumption of foods that elicit the response?
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:48 am

Patt0 wrote:
CKinnard wrote:Carbs that make it past the duodenum into the ilium, stimulate another incretin hormone GLP-1. This is a potent satiety signaler.



Or maybe a trigger to stop the consumption of foods that elicit the response?


Satiety is a sensation as well as a series of mechanical events
- increased pressure against the walls of the ilium reduces peristaltic waves higher up in the small intestine, thereby delaying movement of SI contents downwards.
- both stomach spinchters are tightened, the upper contributes to increased pressure in the stomach, the lower prevents gastric emptying into the duodenum. Higher stomach pressure is part of satiety sensation.

Satiety ends the desire for all foods, for a time. Though the sweet craving some people get after a big meal is thought to be triggered by GIP release.

Interestingly, when fat is consumed with refined carbs, GIP release from K cells in the duodenum is even more pronounced.
So cream buns and donuts are very effective for gaining weight and dysregulating blood glucose regulation.

I think most know refined carbs are inferior food stuffs, however these elborated mechanisms have not been clearly understood before. In the last year, I've spoken with 3 GPs and 4 dietitians about GIP and GLP-1, and their cell source K and L cells, and none of them have heard of this before.

On a final note, gastric bypass surgery is rising across the country. On a recent stint in Mildura, I was stunned at the number of people who had had the surgery, after whining diets didn't work for them (a few questions from me made me realize their dieting was token and uninformed at best). One gent told me 5 members of his family had had the surgery, and he was absolutely convinced his obesity was due to family genes. I asked him whether he knew if any of his grand or great grand parents were obese - he didn't know. (probability favors they weren't).

One of the reasons this surgery works is because it channels food around the stomach and directly into the ilium. So it bypasses the duodenum as well, thereby not triggering GIP release from K cells as strongly. Though the food hits the ilium en masse.

This is why insulin sensitivity returns quickly after the surgery (in addition to being prescribed a low Cal diet). In fact, one study showed that when gastric bypass candidates were just put onto the same diet as they would after surgery, they lost the same amount of weight as they would if they had surgery.

One final point can be made about overcoming a dulled satiety signaling system. That is to use mechanical bulking of the small intestine to more powerfully trigger the satiety cascade of events. This can be done most effectively by eating a much higher volume of raw and cooked non starchy vegetables (8+ cups a day).

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:45 pm

I'm trying to think of a simple way to communicate the message on process carbs, based on what you have said

Processed carbs get absorbed quickly in the beginning of the small intestine (the duodenum) resulting in an insulin spike where unprocessed carbs are absorbed more slowly throughout the small intestine resulting in a spreading of insulin production

Needs work
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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