Diet Thread

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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:45 pm

Patt0 wrote:I have stumbled upon another super food in disguise.

Gummy lollies. High in gelatine and glucose. Fuel and joint and bone support in a tasty little treat.



yes well, articles that say gelatin is a health food are like articles that say balding man should eat hair.

Patt0
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Patt0 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:33 pm

CKinnard wrote:
Patt0 wrote:I have stumbled upon another super food in disguise.

Gummy lollies. High in gelatine and glucose. Fuel and joint and bone support in a tasty little treat.



yes well, articles that say gelatin is a health food are like articles that say balding man should eat hair.


I don’t see your point.

Hair or keratin is not digested by humans. Whereas collagen...has a long history of bone and joint support in the form of bone broths.
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Baalzamon
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:01 pm

You do realise you can make your own gummy bears just using gelatin & water with a non sugar sweetener... ie stevia, xylitol etc
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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:41 am

Patt0 wrote:
CKinnard wrote:
Patt0 wrote:I have stumbled upon another super food in disguise.

Gummy lollies. High in gelatine and glucose. Fuel and joint and bone support in a tasty little treat.



yes well, articles that say gelatin is a health food are like articles that say balding man should eat hair.


I don’t see your point.

Hair or keratin is not digested by humans. Whereas collagen...has a long history of bone and joint support in the form of bone broths.


I'd love to see scientific studies of the benefits of gelatin. The only ones I've seen mention reduced osteoarthritis pain, but they don't say whether total Calorie intake remained constant when on broth or gelatin, an important point because OA and inflammatory pain reduces significantly on a Calorie deficit or fast.

Further, gelatin is broken down in the stomach and small intestine, and absorbed as amino acids. It's essentially 100% amino acids.
There's a cap on the rate that amino acids can be utilized or stored, which once exceeded, excess aa's are deaminated into very toxic ammonia. A significant stress is put on the liver to convert this to less toxic urea. Urea then puts a high stress load on the kidneys to be urinated out.

Chronic excess protein intake does degenerate renal function quicker, in those with renal insufficiency, and in normals. Some studies say people with normal renal function are not adversely effected by excess protein intake, but these fail to understand what renal function studies measure, and how the kidneys' reserve capacity masks damage, until reserve capacity is substantially reduced. BTW, renal reserve capacity is what determines someone's ability to do high intensity cardio exercise, along with the heart's reserve capacity for higher cardiac output. Renal function blood tests don't test reserve capacity, which makes as much as sense as testing an athlete's cardiac output at rest only.

There's a lot of non-science written about protein. I've never read a health, fitness, strength industry article that demonstrates an understanding of the highest source of protein for the body, >60% being recycled amino acids.

Some say excess amino acids are simply used as an energy source. An unqualified statement like this is bro-science, which is ignorant of how protein sparing works, and urea excretion rates on various macro ratios. The only time amino acids will be used as a significant energy source is after 2 days into a complete fast, or many days into a very low Calorie diet.

Further, circulating amino acids are ACIDS, and need to be buffered to maintain normal plasma pH. This puts a load on calcium, phosphorous, and potassium stores, which are also excreted in higher quantities via the kidneys.

Apart from that, the putative benefits of eating animals 'top to tail' is in great part due to eating less animal skeletal muscle and milk products.
One could get similar if not superior putative health benefits from just reducing the amount of animal produce eaten in a week. This is what the world's longest lived communities do. i.e. they all have much less animal produce than those on a standard western diet.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Patt0 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:38 pm

Coles snakes have More flour in them than Allen’s apparently. Might attempt to make my own.

Baalzamon wrote:You do realise you can make your own gummy bears just using gelatin & water with a non sugar sweetener... ie stevia, xylitol etc


I have no problem with sugar. Actually the only supplement I take these days is glucose.a bit worried about those sugar alcohols though. My understanding is they are not assimilated. That would mean they are passed to the bugs in the colon. I don’t feed freeloaders and I don’t want them playing with my brain chemistry.
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Patt0
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Patt0 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:37 pm

CKinnard wrote:.

Chronic excess protein intake does degenerate renal function quicker, in those with renal insufficiency, and in normals. Some studies say people with normal renal function are not adversely effected by excess protein intake, but these fail to understand what renal function studies measure, and how the kidneys' reserve capacity masks damage, until reserve capacity is substantially reduced. BTW, renal reserve capacity is what determines someone's ability to do high intensity cardio exercise, along with the heart's reserve capacity for higher cardiac output. Renal function blood tests don't test reserve capacity, which makes as much as sense as testing an athlete's cardiac output at rest only.
.


Thanks for your insight. You should be educating these folk.

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abs ... m=fulltext
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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:38 pm

Patt0 wrote:Thanks for your insight. You should be educating these folk.

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abs ... m=fulltext


Yes I should considering
- their selection criteria below, which should be resolutely pilloried for the statistical errors it opens itself to.
"We conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of trials comparing HP (≥1.5 g/kg body weight or ≥20% energy intake or ≥100 g protein/d) with normal- or lower-protein (NLP; ≥5% less energy intake from protein/d compared with HP group) intakes on kidney function."

- that 4 of 6 of the authors are in the "kinesiology" department of McMaster University,
- and this university being a major proponent of higher dietary fat:lower carbohydrate diets.
- this review fails to discriminate between standard renal tests with poor sensitivity (eGFR, Creatinine Clearance), and newer 'renal stress testing', which is more sensitive for early stage renal function loss (furosemide stress test, renal functional reserve).

Some other considerations
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30064987
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fu ... %2900062-X

Like I said initially,
- eating gelatin will probably effect your health positively, IF you use it as a partial substitute for skeletal muscle consumption.
- typical renal function blood tests are not sensitive to loss of reserve capacity.
- How do you think a person can donate a kidney and still lead a reasonably normal life?
Last edited by CKinnard on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:31 pm

Visited a friend who over the last whatever had been making slow but steady weight loss. This time she had made a much bigger improvement ie the weight loss has become faster. Chatting to her, she sighted that she was now food logging, which is a great way to better understand your eating habits. Now what was interesting that she is logging the food on her fitbit. I didn't even know that it did that and I have no idea how it does it and what it provides, however having the ability to log on your wrist is super convenient
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:10 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Visited a friend who over the last whatever had been making slow but steady weight loss. This time she had made a much bigger improvement ie the weight loss has become faster. Chatting to her, she sighted that she was now food logging, which is a great way to better understand your eating habits. Now what was interesting that she is logging the food on her fitbit. I didn't even know that it did that and I have no idea how it does it and what it provides, however having the ability to log on your wrist is super convenient


I am not up with the latest on tech gadgets in this respect.
Regarding food logging, the research definitely shows an advantage in dieters doing it. Why? because it is way too easy to conveniently underestimate or forget what we've eaten.
I prefer a Calorie specific diet plan though, that one rigidly sticks to. This means one doesn't have futz with logging everything eaten, week after week.
But the jewel in the crown is to overcome cravings when on a Calorie deficit, and that's another story.

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:37 pm

CKinnard wrote:But the jewel in the crown is to overcome cravings when on a Calorie deficit, and that's another story.

Absolutely. If this was an easy one to crack, you would be out of a job. This is pretty close to my main interest in dieting.

The solutions are only a search away but having the solution doesn't mean you are going to resolve the problem

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;?p=how%20to%20break%20food%20cravings
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

RhapsodyX
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:32 am


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