Di2 battery suddenly died.

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Drizt
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Drizt » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:10 pm

Drugs are bad, mkay

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hamishm
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:24 pm

This just started happening to me with my 6770. I've had the battery completely discharge three times in a couple of weeks in the last month (meaning, nothing shown at all when trying to check the battery level). I've got two batteries and it happens with both, so that's one thing ruled out.

Last Sunday I rode and the battery status was a solid green. By Wednesday night it was a solid red.

The only idea I've got is that about 5-6 weeks ago, I had a minor off and landed drive-train side down. Shifting is still great, but maybe the RD took a knock? And maybe I had one or two unexplained chain jumps, not really sure.

People on other forums talk about checking your limit screws in this case, in case the motor is constantly engaged trying to change the gear. I never leave the bike at the extremes of the cassette, so that doesn't seem like it.

Any thoughts?

Hopefully there's a fix, don't really want to spring for a R8000 upgrade...

ironhanglider
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby ironhanglider » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:10 pm

hamishm wrote:This just started happening to me with my 6770. I've had the battery completely discharge three times in a couple of weeks in the last month (meaning, nothing shown at all when trying to check the battery level). I've got two batteries and it happens with both, so that's one thing ruled out.

Last Sunday I rode and the battery status was a solid green. By Wednesday night it was a solid red.

The only idea I've got is that about 5-6 weeks ago, I had a minor off and landed drive-train side down. Shifting is still great, but maybe the RD took a knock? And maybe I had one or two unexplained chain jumps, not really sure.

People on other forums talk about checking your limit screws in this case, in case the motor is constantly engaged trying to change the gear. I never leave the bike at the extremes of the cassette, so that doesn't seem like it.

Any thoughts?

Hopefully there's a fix, don't really want to spring for a R8000 upgrade...


First up I know nothing about changing gears with electrickery. However if the limit screw theory is true then your front derailleur is potentially at one extreme or the other (depending on trim adjustments) and that might be a source of such an issue. Does that mean you should leave your bike cross-chained when stored? It seems unlikely since I've not heard anyone advocating this before.

My first inclination would be some sort of short-circuit or partial connection caused by dirt/corrosion. Therefore I'd check all electrical connections from the battery to the switches to the derailleurs.

The unexplained chain jumps may well be related, however I assume that you have eliminated mechanical issues like a stiff link first.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby jasonc » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:20 pm

hamishm wrote:Any thoughts?


charge the battery, unplug the RD. leave it a few days. if it remains at 100% then it's the RD
rince, repeat with FD, then each shifter individually
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Toyopet
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Toyopet » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:42 pm

hamishm wrote:.....Any thoughts?

Hopefully there's a fix, don't really want to spring for a R8000 upgrade...


I had a similar problem a year or two ago, with my 2011 vintage 6770 Di2. After much testing/disconnecting/mucking around, I put it down to the front junction unit and gear trim controller (SM-EW67). I think it had been out in the sun and wet weather too much, resulting in the seals failing and enough water ingress to cause slow leakage which was slowly flattening the battery. After installing a new junction unit, it’s all good now. (only ~$50 for a new unit)

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Duck!
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:07 pm

First up, the limit screw thing.... Di2 derailleurs have a slight overshift on each gear shift to ensure a proper shift, before centring under the sprocket. Therefore the limit screws need to be set so there's about 1mm between the screw tip and the limit stopper at each end of the range to allow the overshift. Doesn't matter if the bike's parked in an extreme gear or not, if the derailleur is blocked by poorly-set limits in normal use, it will rapidly discharge the battery. Beyond that, it's a process of elimination to find a component that's not properly going into sleep mode and continually drawing power. As suggested above, it's a matter of testing with one component at a time disconnected and seeing if there's a change in the discharge rate, but just a tip, if it's an external battery system, there's a fair chance the battery mount is the problem part - I've had a fewover the years with the same problem tracing back to the mount.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

lone rider
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby lone rider » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:14 am

Must be gremlin season..

Also still have a 6770 setup on 1 bike which hasn't skipped a beat until this weekend. So I washed the bike during the week, fitted some new wheels and changed brake pads after the clean and checked the gears were all good so everything was still working fine. Went to ride it yesterday and nothing, no lights on junction box. Re-charged battery, still nothing, checked battery with mutilmeter, its fully charged. I have a old battery holder and have checked the system with both, still nothing. Started pulling things apart, bb is out, wiring is all good, no signs of corrosion anywhere. I thought to bypass the deraileurs and inner frame junction, so I took a cable and connected battery straight to handlebar junction box, still no lights. Am I right in thinking the junction box should still power up without any other connections?

Mike Ayling
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Mike Ayling » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:40 am

Just as I was thinking that if I ever give up my Rohloff hubs for a derailleur bike that Di2 would be a much better alternative than those stretchy, stick derailleur cables, but after reading this thread I will stick to Rohloff!

Mike

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hamishm
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:50 am

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Have just started the tedious debugging process a few days back. Unfortunately it takes a few days to drain the battery enough to be noticeable on the battery check, and I can't think of a way to measure the current draw directly with a multimeter.

So far I've ruled out the RD.

The front junction looks like a real pain to rule out, would have to rule out each of the front shifters individually first I think.

How would I rule out the battery mount? (Yes it's external.) Does it have a plugin connector underneath?

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:59 pm

The external mount has a plug-in cable.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:30 pm

hamishm wrote:Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Have just started the tedious debugging process a few days back. Unfortunately it takes a few days to drain the battery enough to be noticeable on the battery check, and I can't think of a way to measure the current draw directly with a multimeter.

So far I've ruled out the RD.

The front junction looks like a real pain to rule out, would have to rule out each of the front shifters individually first I think.

How would I rule out the battery mount? (Yes it's external.) Does it have a plugin connector underneath?

Ultimately it is a process of elimination, and the only part that is common to both upper and lower system tests is the battery mount. Generally the first step is to isolate the lower system so that only the battery mount and derailleurs are connected through the lower (B) junction (which is a "lazy" component; it doesn't draw power, only connects the various "active" parts). If the battery drain persists with either of the derailleurs disconnected (remembering that at this point the entire upper system is disconnected), then the fault can only be with the battery mount. If there is no battery drain at this stage, then reconnect the upper system, but disconnect both shifters so that only the upper (A) junction is connected. If there is still no drain, reconnect and test each shifter in turn.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:33 pm

I have now disconnected the derailleurs and the A junction at the junction (and therefore also the shifters) and the problem persists, leaving just the battery mount or the B junction (which is inside the frame). I'm testing the battery mount on its own now.

Can anyone help with which one I need to buy? Chain Reaction lists a bottle cage mount with external or internal routing ( https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/ ... prod152046 ) - my cabling is internal to the frame so I guess that is the one to get? I gather this is BM-DN100-L versus -I.

Bikebug lists a "mount - long type" which looks right, doesn't say anything about cabling, and the text says it's for seat-stay mounting - which looks quite wrong. https://www.bikebug.com/shimano-sm-bmr1 ... 43383.html

Here's my current mount:
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And on this topic, I also need to replace the battery mount on my 2012ish Giant TCR, because the clip is broken. Is this just the BM-DN100-S short model?
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Duck!
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:35 pm

The JC41 B junction is a "lazy" component; it's simply a crossover box to connect the branches of the system and does not draw any power itself. That leaves the battery mount as the problem unit, which I mentioned earlier as the probable culprit.... ;)

The first pic is the Long version of the mount, the second is the Short. Both are versions of BMR2. DN100 in the appropriate forms will be a direct swap, although it may be necessary to perform a firmware update on the rest of the system to talk to it.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:53 pm

Thanks! I was worried you might say that about the firmware. The system is pretty old (2013) and I don't even have the multi shift. I guess it's an excuse to upgrade.

What about the long internal versus external? Is the difference just a couple of rubber/plastic mounting bits? (Which I have from the old one.)

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:20 pm

I haven't seen enough long mounts recently to be sure of the difference, but like you suspect it's probably just the channelling for the cable routing.

The big difference between BMR1/2 and DN100 (or for those playing with internal batteries, BTR2 & DN110) is that the DN version has more processing power to handle the increased functionality of the newer generation systems, most of which doesn't transfer to 10-sp. systems..... It'll work perfectly fine with 10-sp, but due to processing power limitations in the other components the 10-sp. system won't do much more that it can already do.

I'll have to check the system requirement regarding Junction A box, but the main extra feature you could possibly gain, with the addition of a compatible "D-Fly" wireless transmitter box, is wireless connection to E-Tube for system updates and customising options if you wanted to play with button function or multi-shift setting.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Dave_C » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:09 am

I upgrade mine to the new battery mount for d-fly. therefore have a short mount off my 2015 Cervelo if you are interested - willing to sell for a fair price if it helps (BMR type) PM me - i'm in sydney
Dave
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:56 am

Would the older BMR1 work with R8050, if I were to decide to upgrade the bike to 11 sp later? Obviously I wouldn't have the synchronized shift, or the wireless.. http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/pdf/en ... -01-EN.pdf is old and doesn't mention R8050/R9150.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:38 pm

It'll work, just without the Synchro or Bluetooth capability.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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hamishm
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:50 pm

Updated chart at: http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/pdf/en ... -00-EN.pdf

The chart says that the DN100 isn't compatible with my old EW67 junctions either. Although http://carltonbale.com/shimano-di2-ever ... patibility says it is OK with the external battery

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Dave_C » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:03 am

Off memory - i did upgrade mine piecemeal. Bought the dfly connector - still did not work, bought the newer battery holder, still did not work, then had to buy the new junction box A to get the system operational
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hamishm
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:51 pm

Bike 1 appears to be fixed with a brand new long SM-BMR1, still showing good charge after a week. Bike 2 is fixed with DaveC's short SM-BMR1 . Thanks for the help everyone.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Duck! » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Excellent! :-D
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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hamishm
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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby hamishm » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:58 am

First I've spent on Di2 parts for either of the two bikes since they were bought 5-6 years ago. Can't complain about that.

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Re: Di2 battery suddenly died.

Postby Dave_C » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:59 am

Glad to help
Dave
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