Plant Based Diet Thread

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CKinnard
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:00 pm

Nobody wrote:
CKinnard wrote:The overridnig criteria of this class is roughly 75g per serve.

I believe they made the serving size 75g because generally it's cooked. But like you and I, most are going to measure/weigh veg raw. I think they should have made the serving size 150g (measured raw) like fruit.


I experimented with energy densities years ago when messing with dumbing down energy consumption.
I found if you lightly steamed a cup of non leafy green mixed vege (carrot, beans, snow peas, capsicum, broccoli, etc, etc), they do not reduce in volume significantly if at all.
So the guidelines truism that a cup of raw vege equals a xed vege (carrot, beans, snow peas, capsicum, broccoli, etc, etc), they do not reduce in volume significantly if at all.
So the guidelines truism that a WHOLE cup of raw vege equals a HALF cup of cooked vege, is bogus imo.


Here's the guidelines on what constitutes a serve of vegetables, followed by my calcs on the av. energy content of each:

½ cup cooked green or orange vegetables (for example, broccoli, spinach, carrots or pumpkin) 13 Calories and an av. weight of 17g.
½ cup cooked dried or canned beans, peas or lentils (preferably with no added salt) 85-100 Calories wet wt 75g
1 cup green leafy or raw salad vegetables 25 Cals, 35g
½ cup sweet corn 65 Cals, 75g
½ medium potato or other starchy vegetables (sweet potato, taro or cassava) 60Cals, 75g
1 medium tomato 27 Cals, 150g

so a serve from the same food group varies thus:
Calories from 13 to 100.
weight from 17g to 150g.

When this is the best a gubmint committee can do, no wonder pplz are confused and fat.

Nobody
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:18 pm

Another perspective on the consumption of oil.


CKinnard
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:19 am

I think it is almost a universal truism that any food substance is better consumed closer to its natural form.

Concentrating and refining anything will accelerate its absorption.

It's only when you begin to really study digestion and absorption that you realize the human gut is optimized to digest and absorb food in its close to natural state.
The gut is optimized to deal with boluses (rounded masses) of food, which are reliant on lots of water soluble fiber, and a well hydrated system. These boluses are extemely important in slowing down the release of energy into the blood stream, and preventing glucose and insulin spikes (thereby not stressing or overworking the pancreas).

Rememberl, when you are next asked where do you get your protein, retort with where do you get your fiber.

I had a patient this week - who like most South Africans is a BIG red meat eater. She unfortunately doesn't eat adequate vege or fiber which compounds things terribly. Anyway, for several years she has been iron deficient. She finally had a GP motivated to investigate all angles, with a FOBT (fecal occult blood test) for signs of polyps or cancer or other disturbances of the colon wall. Her result is very positive, and now she is up for an express colonoscopy. The condition she saw me for may very well be secondary tumors.

Nevertheless, my opinion is we don't have to be extreme and eat everything raw and processed.
We appear to be able to tolerate small amounts of blending and refining, and moderate amounts of heating.

Either way, there's fat in most foods, even fruit and vegetables.

Nobody
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:02 pm

CKinnard wrote:I think it is almost a universal truism that any food substance is better consumed closer to its natural form.

Concentrating and refining anything will accelerate its absorption.

Yes I keep this in mind.
Coincidentally I tried about a week or so of almost doubling my fat intake. I did this by increasing my nuts and doubling my oatmeal/porridge. In the end I felt more tired/lethargic so I stopped. So then I thought the oats are currently the most processed food I eat. So I'm trying a week or two with no oats to see if anything changes. I've kept my nuts up to 30 g/d to keep my fat around 30 g/d, or about 9% of energy, or about 0.45 g/kw BW.

CKinnard wrote:Remember, when you are next asked where do you get your protein, retort with where do you get your fiber.

Thanks, I do. Although I don't get many pointed questions these days about diet IRL because the regulars know it's a battle they won't win. They still try to mock me for being different. But that's to be expected. It stems from their insecurities about what they are doing to themselves. Cakes and biscuits are a regular shared item in the lunch room on top of the usual AU diet. This is where folding to peer pressure is dangerous, which they generally do.


CKinnard wrote:I had a patient this week - who like most South Africans is a BIG red meat eater.

Yes I know a family from there and they fit right into the AU culture of lots of animal products. RX posted an article on page 124 of the Diet Thread which was about the diet history in AU over the last 150 years. In summary, the diet was mainly meat and sugar.

CKinnard wrote:Anyway, for several years she has been iron deficient.

I was told about some 20 years ago by a guy who had bowel cancer to check for iron anaemia with a blood test annually. Of course I didn't do it until I changed my diet to find it was too late (with too much iron). :roll:

CKinnard wrote:The condition she saw me for may very well be secondary tumors.

So she probably doesn't have long to live then. If so, likely another victim of the food industries and the western countries' food culture.

CKinnard wrote:Nevertheless, my opinion is we don't have to be extreme and eat everything raw and [un]processed.
We appear to be able to tolerate small amounts of blending and refining, and moderate amounts of heating.

Either way, there's fat in most foods, even fruit and vegetables.

Yes, I agree. Fat is necessary and processing has its advantages. I may have been getting/absorbing too little fat, which may have been contributing to my eczema symptoms. I think McDougall's influence still affects me somewhat.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:00 pm

The lady with the secondary tumors. In addition to what you have done with her diet, tell her that cancer patients increase their chances of survival if they do regular exercise.

My pancreas cancer friend was diagnosed in Jan 2017 and is still with us where most with pancreas cancer are dead within 6 months. There's numerous other examples.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

Nobody
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:13 pm

Popper had the same sentiment but didn't elaborate. Goji has elaborated a bit more.


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