Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

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Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:54 am

Hi Tassie Folks,

My sister was tragically killed last Friday at the intersection of Macquarie and Campbell streets. She was a pedestrian, not a cyclist but I thought I'd pose the question here as we are a community and I have no local knowledge having only visited Hobart once.

Below is a link to the ABC's report of the incident, Tassie Police and Qld Police have been fantastic with their assistance and information. I don't have full access to the evidence as it is under investigation, however I would like to propose to the coroner that this intersection (and possibly others along this area) have right turn controls added for when pedestrians have pressed the crossing button.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-23/queensland-woman-dies-after-being-hit-by-bus-in-hobart/7654498

We know from CCTV evidence that my sister did press the button and waited before crossing on the green. A close friend traveled down to Hobart this week and placed flowers at the scene, she sat for quite some time and observed traffic and pedestrian movements. She has noted that the buses and many cars swing wide when turning into Campbell St. We wonder if my sister noted the bus had mostly departed the right turn lane and assumed it was intending to continue along Maquarie... Not that this excuses possible fault from the other party.

I drive heavy vehicles and understand what's required for turning, looking on Google Maps, I struggle to see why a vehicle the size of a Metro bus would need to swing wide at this intersection given Campbell street multi laneis one way.

I would be very greatly appreciative if you folk could assist me by supplying information of other incidents at this and nearby intersections where better traffic light controls could have improved the outcome. I would like to see a change to prevent this horrible event occurring again if at all possible.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby rangersac » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:26 am

Firstly my condolences on losing your sister in such unforeseeable and awful circumstances. In answer to your queries, I am not aware of any such instances in recent times of a pedestrian being struck at major CBD intersections. However I will say that the pedestrian/ bike light sequences at the intersections of the major arterials of Macquarie St and Davey St are mostly heavily weighted towards turning traffic, especially during peak periods. The length of the green man lamps being lit is extremely short for the length of the light cycle, which is frankly disgusting given pedestrian traffic in Hobart is hardly at New York City levels, so if you are able to agitate for improvements to this situation, be it either through turning lamps, or better sequencing for pedestrians it would be most welcome.

There is a holding bus bay just before this intersection on Macquarie St, outside the Tasmanian Museum and Art Gallery. Several busses often wait there (timetabling factors I'd imagine) before turning right into Campbell St in order to complete a circuit to the central bus station areas on Macquarie and Elizabeth Sts. Because the busses are turning right from the extreme right hand lane of the road I'm imagine they would swing wide on this intersection to avoid cutting the corner and running over the kerb.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:12 pm

I am sorry to hear about your sister pete.

the NSW centre for road safety has identified the failure to give way to pedestrians when turning as one of the 10 most misunderstood road rules.

NSW is also overhauling the traffic light sequences at 560 intersections to make pedestrian crossings safer

This was in response to 2 reports from the NSW Coroner.

Mijin Shin was crossing with a green man at the intersection of Hanna Street and Beecroft Road when she was hit and killed by a bus turning left. The Coroner recommended
That the RMS consider carrying out a review and assessment of all 2-phase intersections on State roads to prioritise and implement the installation of traffic signal delay phasing so that vehicle traffic be held on a red light while a green walk sign permits pedestrians to leave the footpath unimpeded for a period of time.


There was also a fatality at Alexandria in 2009, but I have yet to locate the report. I will post a link if I find it.

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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby rangersac » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:42 pm

That the RMS consider carrying out a review and assessment of all 2-phase intersections on State roads to prioritise and implement the installation of traffic signal delay phasing so that vehicle traffic be held on a red light while a green walk sign permits pedestrians to leave the footpath unimpeded for a period of time.


This does already happen at a few intersections in Hobart. Unfortunately for Pete's sister, the Macquarie/ Campbell intersection is not one of those.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:05 pm

Firstly, thank you to everyone.

rangersac wrote:Firstly my condolences on losing your sister
...
There is a holding bus bay just before this intersection on Macquarie St, outside the Tasmanian Museum and Art Gallery. Several busses often wait there (timetabling factors I'd imagine) before turning right into Campbell St in order to complete a circuit to the central bus station areas on Macquarie and Elizabeth Sts. Because the busses are turning right from the extreme right hand lane of the road I'm imagine they would swing wide on this intersection to avoid cutting the corner and running over the kerb.


I agree with the short duration permitted for pedestrian/cyclist traffic. This is an issue for us here in Brisbane too.

Looking at the intersection via google maps, given that there are three lanes on Campbell st a full sized semi trailer could turn right from the right turn lane without mounting the kerb, as long the maneuver was performed with care. The metro buses have a comparatively short wheel base and 'could' make the turn. However we as humans are lazy and to go wider is easier. My friends observation was that all buses and many cars took this same wide line. This would need to be taken into consideration before implementing a red right turn light and managing traffic flow for the straight through lanes.

rangersac wrote:
That the RMS consider carrying out a review and assessment of all 2-phase intersections on State roads to prioritise and implement the installation of traffic signal delay phasing so that vehicle traffic be held on a red light while a green walk sign permits pedestrians to leave the footpath unimpeded for a period of time.


This does already happen at a few intersections in Hobart. Unfortunately for Pete's sister, the Macquarie/ Campbell intersection is not one of those.


This would be a low cost improvement, and certainly a better solution to the current configuration.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby rangersac » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:50 pm

PiratePete wrote:Looking at the intersection via google maps, given that there are three lanes on Campbell st a full sized semi trailer could turn right from the right turn lane without mounting the kerb, as long the maneuver was performed with care. The metro buses have a comparatively short wheel base and 'could' make the turn. However we as humans are lazy and to go wider is easier. My friends observation was that all buses and many cars took this same wide line. This would need to be taken into consideration before implementing a red right turn light and managing traffic flow for the straight through lanes.


It's not necessarily laziness that causes vehicles to make the wide turn, as the lane that a driver takes in Campbell St when making the turn from Macquarie is heavily dependent on their ultimate destination. Heading south on Davey St, Murray St, Salamanca Place, and Sandy Bay Rd are the major exits to Salamanca, Battery Point and Sandy Bay (plus suburbs beyond), and unless you are in positioned in the two left hand lanes of Davey St when you exit Campbell St, it's difficult to get across to make any of these exits in time. It's probably slightly less than 1km between Campbell St and Sandy Bay Rd, in which time there are two major intersections to traverse, Davey St between Elizabeth and Murray is split level, and traffic is generally heavy through this entire section.

None of this in anyway excuses the bus driver from failing to see a pedestrian crossing on a green man,
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:24 am

Thanks for this info, it is a great help.

I will be making a submission to the coroner to try and improve the pedestrian safety at this and other intersections around the area. Of particular interest is the signal phasing as I suspect that this would be a zero cost change that could improve pedestrian safety. Though to be quite honest I want a right turn arrow on this particular intersection. If the metro buses have a blind spot issue at the angles in this situation (assumed, not known), then with the large number of buses making this turn, the pedestrians need more protection.

My sister was repatriated to Brisbane on Thursday and her funeral arrangements are in progress.

Thank-you for keeping this topic respectful.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby LG » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:34 pm

FYI, I have been in contact with Pete directly, I know 2 other people who have been struck by and injured by Metro buses in central Hobart. Take care around them and don't take anything for granted.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:17 am

Thank-you @LG

Yesterday we laid Wendy to rest, now the fight to ensure this horrendous event is not repeated. I will update you all down the track when I've had feed back from the coroner's office.

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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby cp123 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:27 pm

hang in there pete! :cry:

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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:47 am

I've just arrived back in Brisbane after spending the week in Hobart attending the trail for the bus driver who was charged with negligent driving causing death.

Long and short of it was the CCTV footage showed that my sister could have been seen on the approach to and while the bus as at the intersection if the driver had looked for her.

Regarding changing the pedestrian signalling, this is proving difficult as the state growth department who own this intersection won't speak with me as the matter will be going to the coroner's office once the judicial system is complete. Sentencing is next month, then an appeal period to wait prior to the matter being placed at the bottom of the 'in tray.'

What surprises me is that other intersections along Macquarie street have delayed signalling, that is to give the pedestrian a head start before the vehicles are permitted to move. This delay would have enabled my sister to 'walk' out of any potential blindspots and in all likeliness prevented this incident.

State Growth Tasmania will not enter into any discussion without being forced to by the Coroner. I for one don't understand why an obvious and almost zero cost change could not be done prior to the Coroner bringing down his findings. So I'm now building a case file to submit to the coroner and will take the long road. I'm hoping that no one else is hurt or worse in the meantime.

Also after listening to all the evidence, I'm concerned about the attentiveness and training provided to the Metro Bus drivers, but thats another story which I need to keep out of the social media for now.

As a side note, I hired a bike from Hobart Bike Hire, just a flat bar road/hybrid, and I would have covered around 150km around town. I've got to say I'm jealous of you guys and gals. Car drivers are soooo friendly, pedestrians/joggers are friendly on the shared paths. In Brisbane I would have been shaved on multiple times especially on roads like the one up from Sandy Bay up to Neilson's Lookout. I had cars slow and wait for me to complete the hairpin turns before over taking. Not here in Brisbane! I was wearing my normal lycra kit, took my own lights, and rode exactly as I would here (albeit a touch slower on the #clunkerbike ), so no reason really to be treated any differently than what I am up here. Kudos Tasmania!

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-21/bus-driver-sentenced-over-pedestrian-death/9470472?pfmr

I'll be back down for the sentencing hearing on the 19th of March.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby RonK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:37 am

Seeing the picture of Wendy in the ABC report was a jolt Pete.

It must have been difficult to sit through the trail. Any time you feel like a coffee and a chat just let me know.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby LG » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:04 pm

Was reading about the trial and thinking of you Pete. If you want to borrow a bike or feel like somebody to ride next time you're down (albeit not very fast), let me know.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:45 pm

RonK wrote:Seeing the picture of Wendy in the ABC report was a jolt Pete.

It must have been difficult to sit through the trail. Any time you feel like a coffee and a chat just let me know.


Thanks Ron, a catch up is long overdue. I'll give you a yell in the next couple of weeks.

What was a jolt was reading some of the Facebook news report comments. Gotta love social media...
Last edited by PiratePete on Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:47 pm

LG wrote:Was reading about the trial and thinking of you Pete. If you want to borrow a bike or feel like somebody to ride next time you're down (albeit not very fast), let me know.


Might just do that. Still working out whether I'll come down alone or bring the family. If I come down myself i'll get in touch beforehand. Love riding in Hobart, your car drivers are sooo friendly.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby rangersac » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:15 pm

PiratePete wrote:Might just do that. Still working out whether I'll come down alone or bring the family. If I come down myself i'll get in touch beforehand. Love riding in Hobart, your car drivers are sooo friendly.


Just saw your update Pete. I'll extend @LG's offer for bikes/ company to myself whilst you are here, including some off road fun if you fancy it. I'm also not surprised about State Growth's recalcitrance on the light issue. They are not noted for being the most dynamic wing of the government.

I echo your concerns with regard to Metro drivers. In my experience they are either very respectful of cyclists, or the worst culprits on the road in terms of vehicle bike interactions. Incidences where I have submitted video footage directly to Metro have been only met with standard canned responses. Fortunately Tasmania now has the minimum distance passing legislation in place for my next encounter!
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby rangersac » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:18 am

Yet again the wet lettuce leaf punishment is used in Tasmania when a fatality from driver error occurs

Tasmanian bus driver escapes jail
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby sogood » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:49 am

PiratePete wrote:What surprises me is that other intersections along Macquarie street have delayed signalling, that is to give the pedestrian a head start before the vehicles are permitted to move. This delay would have enabled my sister to 'walk' out of any potential blindspots and in all likeliness prevented this incident.

My condolence on a sad loss.

I note your mention of the blindspot and it indeed is a major issue these days, more than just heavy vehicles. Passenger cars these days under more stringent roof integrity standards have all beefed up their A pillars. As a result, the blind spot for drivers to the right has widened significantly when compared to vehicles of old. I personally have had a few close calls where pedestrian was completely blocked from view. Nowadays, I make a conscious action to scan around the pillar when at intersections.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:53 pm

rangersac wrote:Yet again the wet lettuce leaf punishment is used in Tasmania when a fatality from driver error occurs

Tasmanian bus driver escapes jail


Wet lettuce indeed. It appears that if Metro decides to keep him on, that he will be applying for a restricted work licence. I'll be making a submission against it under the premiss of "public interest" to attempt to block this likely move. If a restricted license is granted then it would appear that no justice has been served.

I also looked into civil action against Metro while I was in Hobart on Monday, however the advice given suggests that as my sister was without dependents that no compensation is due.

From what I can see Metro does appear to have a militant thuggish element within, certainly those involved during the trial looked and acted that way. I've not had a single contact from them since day one. One of our bus drivers here killed a pedestrian and they were on the phone to the family (in England) within a couple of days to pass on condolences. But Metro, no.

I headed home yesterday feeling a sad emptiness that I really can't explain. As I posted to instagram "Tassie your beautiful, but your tarnished and I'm not sure that I can ever be happy here."

@LG and @rangerac - Thank-you both for the offer of wheels and company. This time I brought the family down with me and made a long weekend of it. My activity tracker suggests that I walked 50km over the three days...

Thanks for the glorious weather on Saturday (spent with ball and chain at Salamanca), but Say What was with Sunday??? Bruny Is cruise cancelled, a car hired and self drive Bruny tour done, Mt Wellington 3°c with a chill factor of -30°c!! Monday not much better... Certainly not conducive to a ride on either Sunday or Monday.

If you have folks coming to visit Tassie, I highly recommend http://grandoldduke.com.au at Battery Point. A bit more up market than our caravan, but very comfortable and big enough to give some space for the kids, and ideal for our needs being walking distance to the CBD.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby rangersac » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:58 pm

PiratePete wrote: Thanks for the glorious weather on Saturday (spent with ball and chain at Salamanca), but Say What was with Sunday??? Bruny Is cruise cancelled, a car hired and self drive Bruny tour done, Mt Wellington 3°c with a chill factor of -30°c!! Monday not much better... Certainly not conducive to a ride on either Sunday or Monday.


Hahah, yes well summer had to end at some point, and you timed it! The commute on Monday was rather unpleasant to say the least.

Sorry about the court experience Pete, unfortunately it's far from unusual here
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby PiratePete » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:22 pm

rangersac wrote:Sorry about the court experience Pete, unfortunately it's far from unusual here


The maximum penalty is now 2 years imprisonment so some improvement has occurred since that article, however at the time of my Wendy's incident it was still 12 months...

The magistrate stated that the sentencing for these types of offences are set to send a message to the community that we all need to be more careful and prudent drivers. The message I took away was that there is basically no repercussions for taking a life. He also stated that my sister's case the offence was at the lowest end of the scale.

Suspended sentences, are only a big deal if you re-offend, even then you may get away with it. Case in point my neighbour told me about a case here in Qld where a female driver hit and killed a pedestrian while texting. She received a 3 year suspended sentence and a fine. Six months later she was caught texting while driving again. The magistrate stated that he could not see how sending this person to jail would benefit the community... Surely she should have been sent straight to jail.

Receiving a license disqualification, then obtaining a restricted license to enable you to travel to and from work, and to work, enables the person who killed my sister to continue on with little inconvenience. He lives at Cygnet and works driving a bus in Hobart, so I'm sure he could get away with doing his shopping and limited running around on his way to or from work, and of course, he can spend his day driving a bus.

This person has previously been convicted of DUI at 0.09% and other offences, but lets not make an example of him to the community, after all, the deceased is just a vulnerable road user.

One must question the justice dealt in these situations.
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Re: Help with info regarding accidents on Maquarie St

Postby Shred11 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:33 am

PiratePete wrote:
rangersac wrote:One must question the justice dealt in these situations.


Sadly, our "justice" system is all about the rights of the offender to be rehabilitated.

I think these cases need to consider the safety of the general public. In the same way that not everyone is good at maths and not everyone is good at doing a 100m sprint, there are people who simply are not capable of safely driving a motor vehicle. Sometimes it's poor eye sight, sometimes attitude to risk taking or lack of consideration for vulnerable road users. For whatever reason, there are many people driving, who simply should not be allowed behind the wheel of a motorised vehicle.

In cases where a life has been taken, offenders have demonstrated that they are not safe drivers and that while they are on the road, the lives of innocent people are at risk. For the safety of the public, they should never be allowed to drive again and there should be a long gaol sentence automatically applied if they are ever caught driving.

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