Jones Plus build

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RonK
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby RonK » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:42 pm

avolve wrote:
RonK wrote:Better put some of this on it...

Effeto Mariposo Shelter


I thought that was designed for carbon?

They say carbon or metal.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

slowtour
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby slowtour » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:34 pm

Hi., just registered on the site after viewing for a while. I live in Hobart (currently travelling) and am looking also to purchase a Jones Plus. I have recently made an initial contact with the business in USA. How has the bike been for you after several months of ownership? Also if you have any more tips on how the purchase & shipping went I would love to hear any extra information you might have.

Cheers

Slowtour

avolve
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby avolve » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:30 pm

slowtour wrote:Hi., just registered on the site after viewing for a while. I live in Hobart (currently travelling) and am looking also to purchase a Jones Plus. I have recently made an initial contact with the business in USA. How has the bike been for you after several months of ownership? Also if you have any more tips on how the purchase & shipping went I would love to hear any extra information you might have.

Cheers

Slowtour


I can’t overstate balance. It just feels good.

I am still tweeting a few things, and just raised the bars as high as they would go (were ~2 inch lower). Had a lot of fun on some local Single track last weekend. Small change feels so much better.

I am starting to really appreciate the h bars, not that I am more upright. I am looking at getting the just releases jones 2.5 h bar for my Pugsley based on these experiences.

As for postage, I am not sure it can be cheaper (unless you know someone flying over to bring it with them). Was shipped directly from Jones bikes (US$360). I have heard a few stories of people getting lucky and avoiding customs on framesets (from EU). I was not one of them. All up (including GST) was AU$500+. Had not factored that in to cost...

If you have the money, a great bike. I am lucky to be a similar size to Jeff J, and was able to draw on his experience re sizing and some components. Very happy with my going for a 40mm stem (temp one on whilst waiting for the Thompson.

Lean back seat post was a good choice too.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:04 pm

How do you find the truss fork. I would think it would be to stiff of on really rooty singetrack.
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avolve
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby avolve » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:17 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:How do you find the truss fork. I would think it would be to stiff of on really rooty singetrack.


On the rides so far, it feels quite supple. The smaller tube diameter and support for both tension and compression seems to work very well.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:14 pm

I thought the idea of the truss fork was to achieve more stiffness and lighter weight than a standard fork
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Pete W
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby Pete W » Sun May 06, 2018 6:06 pm

Does anybody know of any Jones bikes in tasmania? Keen to check one out

Rodgerbiltit
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby Rodgerbiltit » Tue May 08, 2018 7:32 pm

I recommend that you pm "slowtour".… He is exceedingly pleased with his I believe!
Be warned however to allow plenty of time (if you get his phone number)!

Pete W
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby Pete W » Wed May 09, 2018 7:12 am

Rodgerbiltit wrote:I recommend that you pm "slowtour".… He is exceedingly pleased with his I believe!
Be warned however to allow plenty of time (if you get his phone number)!


Thank you Rodger, I have tried that, see how we go! Cheers

avolve
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby avolve » Wed May 09, 2018 12:01 pm

Based on my experience thus far, if I had the funds this is a frame I would purchase in Ti.

It was a gamble not having a chance to ride one first, and one that has very much paid off.

So much fun to ride. It just works — loaded and unloaded.

[have to start working towards a Katoomba — Jenolan — Wombeyn — Mittagong — Bombaderry ride for when the weather warms]

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Mugglechops
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby Mugglechops » Tue May 15, 2018 1:24 pm

avolve wrote:Based on my experience thus far, if I had the funds this is a frame I would purchase in Ti.

It was a gamble not having a chance to ride one first, and one that has very much paid off.

So much fun to ride. It just works — loaded and unloaded.

[have to start working towards a Katoomba — Jenolan — Wombeyn — Mittagong — Bombaderry ride for when the weather warms]


Doing a short overnighter last weekend in June if you're keen. Send me an email.
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avolve
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby avolve » Thu May 17, 2018 11:50 am

Mugglechops wrote:
avolve wrote:Based on my experience thus far, if I had the funds this is a frame I would purchase in Ti.

It was a gamble not having a chance to ride one first, and one that has very much paid off.

So much fun to ride. It just works — loaded and unloaded.

[have to start working towards a Katoomba — Jenolan — Wombeyn — Mittagong — Bombaderry ride for when the weather warms]


Doing a short overnighter last weekend in June if you're keen. Send me an email.


Will get back to you (and check on my winter gear!)...

slowtour
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby slowtour » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:55 am

Hi, I wanted to let you know that I went ahead and took Delivery of my Jones Plus in November 2017. I wanted to wait until I had a bit of experience with it before posting some impressions. The bike is the smaller 24" frame with Jones handlebars, a 1x12 Sram drivetrain, BB7 cable dic brakes, and three inch 29+ tubeless tyres. I can go more nerdy and technical later.
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These are my personal impressions of the bike and others may have a completely different experience.

Having ridden over 20,000k fully loaded across three continents on a Mongoose Tourer and (mainly) Surly Long Haul Trucker, plus lots of local riding on an old mountain bike and a feather weight racing bike or two, the Jones Plus is the most comfortable, stable and enjoyable bike I have ever ridden - by a considerable margin.
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The first surprise when first riding the bike is that it was very lively and felt light compared to all the previous bikes I have ridden, with the possible exception of a featherweight racing bike. It isn't lightweight in absolute terms - it just feels lightweight when riding it. And when people pick it up so far 100% of cyclists and non-cyclists have expressed surprise that it doesn't feel heavy. I guess that is in part because it looks so huge.

Back to riding impressions. Another surprise was that when I first loaded the bike with as much gear as I could carry, the handling was barely impacted. This is what I packed for a short ride on the Tasmanian Centra Highlands. Handlebar sling containing heavy sleeping bag (-20 degree), sleeping mat, thermals and beanie; two fork mounted dry bag cages with food & cooking gear, clothing; full frame bag with heavy lock, pump, tools, raincoat, first aid kit, raincoat; two one litre bottles in stem bags; wallet, epirb and mobile in top tube bag; rear tubes rack with two panniers carrying additional 8 litres of water, more clothes, more food, SLR camera, laptop; rack top with tent; two litres of water in a cradle under the down tube. Ok you get the idea. I was carrying too much gear for an overnighter - it was a test. In summary, you could have seen me riding over tree roots & large rocks over a remote track, laughing while I held the handlebar with one index finger and carelessly bumping over the lumps. Extraordinary. The most stable tourer I have ever encountered. Of course this wasn't terribly technical track riding but it was way over what I would have attempted on the Surly - and I would have been "white-knuckle" concentrating just to stay upright on the Surly Long Haul Trucker (2" tyres).

A couple of weekends ago I had the opportunity to join a Bicycle Tasmania ride on Bruny Island. An excellent adventure with five new friends. On this ride I discovered that the bike appeared (no science here) to roll faster downhill on pavement and on dirt than four of the other loaded touring bikes. One loaded tourer however was marginally faster on the pavement downhills. This test really is more anecdotal than anything but it proved to me that the most obvious possible disadvantage - that these big heavy tyres and raised profile MTB tyres are sluggish - do not hold water in the real world. Of course, physics says that this set up would have to be slower on pavement, particularly with the low nobs on the 3" tyres creating extra rolling resistance. The point is that it wasn't apparent so it maybe isn't a huge deal. If I decide to ride the bitumen across 1,000k's of USA highways again, I would however opt for smoother 3" tyres.

On the dirt sections everyone rode without any real issue (standard wheels, tiny folding wheels, narrow tyres etc) - the roads weren't technical in nature - and it yet again proves that you don't need an expensive Jones Plus to tour everywhere (lesson for self here). However my colleagues had to focus on the dirt sections more often and carefully watch for the treacherous gravel while I was making an impression of carelessly riding a limousine - looking at the views rather than the gravel in front of me.
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To continue with my unscientific impressions...my favourite new 'thing' is to offer other cyclists (usually complete strangers) a ride on the Jones Plus and take a video on my phone. I now have a collection of fun (badly shot) videos and each and every one jumps on and immediately gets a big grin, and often starts laughing as well. People appear to be genuinely surprised at how much fun it is to ride and how capable it is. I never got that reaction to riding my Surly Long Haul Trucker!
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Other bits. The brakes are brilliant. So much more powerful and better modulating than the V brakes I have had for the last 10 years. Please don't attack me if you love V brakes. The jury is out on the tubeless tyres. They work. No punctures so far. No sealant leakage. I didn't even realise that they had arrived tubeless until a little while ago (red face). On the front wheel sometimes the whole valve core comes out when I take off the valve cap - instant deflation. An irritation I will need to address.
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There are a few disadvantages with this bike set up. First it is expensive. For me it is more like a retirement bike than a whim and took a chunk out of my savings. It is also big - now I have to take off the front wheel to get it into my Subaru Liberty wagon. There is also an annoying rub on the tyre in lowest gear that I am still trying to resolve. Not a big rub, but enough to start taking the paint off the "Maxxis" lettering on the rear tyre. So far that is about it. A long tour will sort out any real substantial issues but that will have to wait until I get more holidays.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:02 am

Great write up and a great looking rig. Very envious. The rub on your tyre is not from the chain slapping sideways when your riding rough tracks or when your out of the saddle resulting in the bottom bracket swaying which pushes the chain closer to the tyre.
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RonK
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby RonK » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:01 am

Read your Bruny Island journal David. Reminds me very much of my visit, unfortunately by car not bike.

It was a big move from your LHT to the Jones eh? You sure have done a lot of touring since I read your first journal about your NZ tour (while I was there touring myself).

Hope the arm is fully healed.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

slowtour
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby slowtour » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:59 pm

Hi Ronk, thanks for the positive comments and Single Speed Scott for your suggestion - I do enjoy the blogging thing. On the tyre chain rub - I never get out of the saddle to pedal - unless I want to win a race (which is never) or to rest my bum downhill...and then i don't pedal. But a good thought all the same.

Yes my arm is well & truly healed now thank you Ronk. I was extra vigilant to do 100% of my physio exercises for as long as it took so that I have 100% strength back again. I was terrified that I would lose strength from not re-building the muscles but all good now! And yes, the Jones Plus is a big move from the Surly - but in reality it is just an evolution of my gradual move towards more casual, relaxed and slow touring - away from the traffic wherever possible.

Err - update - I just realised that I was posting one comment to two people just then. Sorry if that is a bit confusing. Thanks to both of you for your comments and suggestions.

Cheers
Dave

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rifraf
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby rifraf » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:57 pm

Hi slowtour,
Hmmmm tire rub in low gear?
Not sure if its helpful, but I seem to remember having to buy a cassette spacer for my Moulton APB some years ago, from I believe Practicalcycles on their eBay shop.
I can't off the top of my head remember why, but mightn't something similar help push your cassette outwards away from the tire in your gear with the most teeth?

Edit: I remember now, it was due to utilising a seven speed cassette on a later model hub (10/11 speed) and I think for my use it was 4.5mm but they come in a range of sizes/thicknesses.

I was wondering if one might work for you by pushing the cassette outwards?

The bike is looking great by the way, making me :mrgreen: with envy.

Tell me, is there a way the front forks can utilise front panniers?
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

slowtour
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby slowtour » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:47 am

Hi rifraf, didn't realise such a thing existed, I will have a look into it. My next move will be to discuss with Jeff Jones's company again to see what they recommend. I let them know a few weeks ago about the problem and they said they would get back to me. I will take some better photos of the rubbing/ tyre clearance issue and see what they come up with. It is probably best if I go this way first, since they set the whole bike up & I haven't changed the drivetrain since they installed it. To give a little more detail, I took my bike into a good local bike shop familiar with "boost" drivetrains and they ensured that the derailleur cage was completely straight & true (no charge) before saying that I needed to have a chat with the manufacturer to get the issue addressed. Good advice. As you might expect it is only a matter of a millimetre or so and it has only started rubbing out the painted letters - so it is a very fine adjustment. But it isn't quite right and Jeff's recommended 29x 3.25" Duro tyre certainly would rub even more in this current configuration.

It is an interesting (for me being nerdy) issue as it reflects the compromises that are made while keeping the "q" factor low with a boost 1X12 drivetrain working around a big bulging tyre. The design of the bike helps this considerably because it has the longest chainstays I have ever seen (one of the reasons why it is so stable loaded) and a small-ish front chainring. When you look at the chainline across the biggest and smallest cogs, it does look a bit extreme - although the Sram 1x12 is actually designed to work effectively like this, it will take a while before I know if it will prematurely wear the components due to the more extreme angles from chainwheel to cassette. I will let you know in a year or so.

So...what I am saying is that putting a spacer in (which may be the best solution) will also make the chainline angle to the smallest cog just a little bit worse. Maybe not enough to matter but I will check with Jones Bikes first & see what they reckon. Anyway I will let you know also what Jeff Jones' proposed solution is.

And yes, the bike is amazing. Loving it.

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rifraf
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby rifraf » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:39 pm

Pretty sure you'll be able to find spacers for your bottom bracket as well as chainrings too.

I look forward to reading about your solution when its sorted.

Happy spinning :D
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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baabaa
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby baabaa » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:20 pm

Umm looks like your bike has a bushnell (eccentric bottom bracket)? I have one on my single speed and run a screw-on bmx freewheel rear hub. As my rear end cog wont move in and out, to get that extra good chain line I run a few spacers and then a fine tune the bushnell a bit side-ways before a snug it down tight. Not a lot of movement but every bit helps. Is yours a 68 mm road shell or the fat bike one? A bit of a tip do loosen it up, remove it and give it a good cover in grease every now and then.
Also I get you on the different to a touring bike handling, more bikes could come with a low bb and long wheel base, they make for comfort and you just ride "in" them not on them, with or without a load and on both dirt and tar it kinda feels right most of the time.

slowtour
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby slowtour » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:48 pm

Hi baabaa, yes it does have the Bushnell bottom bracket. I had first thought of fiddling with the EBB to see if it would improve chainline slightly but at the time I was dissuaded by my local bike shop. By the specs on my build, the BB is a Sram Team GXP but it doesn't say what size per se, so I will have a look & see if I can tell if it is road or mtb. Good advice on giving it a service. I should probably learn how to do this and ensure it is all clean & tidy. Another Youtube search on the way for that.

It sounds like you "get it" in terms of why the bike is such a pleasure to ride. The long wheelbase ensures stability (and heel clearance) and the fork set-up ensures no toe overlap, while the overall geometry and handlebars ensure that the ride is surprisingly nimble.

I will update the forum when I get a chance to try a few solutions. Thank you for the advice & suggestions.

Cheers
Dave

vagamundo
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby vagamundo » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:19 pm

Does anyone know if the Jones Plus can be fitted with a Rohloff hub? It might work as it has an eccentric bottom bracket, the intial outfit I had on my Velosmith frame before going over to aluminium sliding dropouts.

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baabaa
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby baabaa » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:40 am

Hey slowtour, that is pretty poor advice, but as they are rare in Aust it may have had your LBS a bit spooked and they may not know much about them. But yes have a play as I think they need a little bit of care every now and then because if you just set and forget it may not work when you need it.
I was precious at first but once you get the feel of how much tension they need to loosen and retighten it is not a problem. I run a Hope 68-73 mtn bb with SRAM Truvativ Stylo 1.1 180mm crankset so need the hope to sram adapter gizmo. Works well enough. Quick tip is remove the cranks and loosen the bb out a tad before you try and move the ebb as this seem to give the whole thing a bit of slack, they do feel tight at first but read up the stuff off the bushnell website and get you head around how it works. Once you have it in your hand it is clear to see how it works. Any bottom bracket seem to suck in muck so when I change ratios and need to fiddle with the position, I do pull it out and give it (and the bb shell) a good wipedown with a dry rag then recover with good lithium grease.

vagamundo wrote:Does anyone know if the Jones Plus can be fitted with a Rohloff hub? It might work as it has an eccentric bottom bracket, the intial outfit I had on my Velosmith frame before going over to aluminium sliding dropouts.

All about boost and not sure if rohloff are going that way or not?
Seems that JJ may still offer frames with 135mm and QR but maybe a special order? As all my wheelset are 135 QR so this makes me happy but I cant see myself buying another bike.....
http://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-lw ... -fork-set/

avolve
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby avolve » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:54 pm

I have an e*thirteen TRSr 1x11 (9-46T) and I get a tiny bit of rub on my 19x3 Maxxis Chronicles in the lowest gear (with a One up oval chain ring).

slowtour
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Re: Jones Plus build

Postby slowtour » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:28 pm

Update on the chain rubbing issue with my Jones Plus:

Saturday morning I arranged a Skype chat with the builder Jess Jones. Jeff attributed the chain rub to a change in the shape of the 3" 29+ (Maxxis Chronicle) tyre. According to Jeff, regularly inflating the tyres to 25psi will eventually lead to the tyre bulging and therefore chain rubbing on the tyre when in the largest rear cog (50 tooth in my case). Jeff spent quite some time repeating that there is no need to inflate the tyres above around 16psi and repeated his assertion that there is no increase in rolling resistance by keeping these tyres (on 45mm rims as they are) at pressures like 12-14 psi. I said to Jeff that I was concerned that with a touring load the tyre would 'bottom' onto the rim, damaging the tyre and the rim. Jeff indicated that this is unlikely and advised that I should inflate the tyres such that they are just high enough to avoid bottoming, rather than adding lots of extra pressure - as a change of an extra 1-2psi is all that is required. I must say that even when running 10 psi with a load the tyres have never even looked like hitting the rim so he seems to have a point here, although at this pressure the front wheel is inclined to squirm and wander a bit on the pavement, so at that point an extra psi or two may be required.

It is worth pointing out that the tyre has (printed on the tyre) a recommended pressure range from 10psi to 30 psi. I am running it tubeless - so there will be no issues with 'snake bite' punctures while running at low pressures.

Additionally, Jeff said that he had dealt with the tyre rubbing issue (same as mine) before and that once the tyres have 'bulged' they tend to be permanently bulged and ultimately the only solution would be to get a new tyre and not inflate it too high. These tyres are not cheap so I will be wearing them out instead.

Jeff's advice on the cause of the tyre rub does tally with my experience as I had no sign of tyre rub in the first few months of ownership and I hadn't changed the drivetrain up until last Saturday - so the tyre bulge explanation is plausible. Additionally, as described earlier, I had the derailleur checked and it is straight & true.

As a solution, Jeff suggested that I move the Eccentric Bottom Bracket. This I accomplished in a short time thanks to the old reliable You -Tube video search. There was just under two mm movement available and this was enough to move the chain away from the tyre. I am now running about 14psi front and rear and this seems to be both stable and smooth. Ultimately it won't be until I fit a new version that I will see if indeed the new tyre offers more clearance that the old 'bulged' one I have fitted now.

Thanks to others for also suggesting on the forum that I adjust the EBB - I wanted to get the solution from the manufacturer first so that I have a reasonable case to get more advice from them if required.

Of course the Jones Plus is still a fantastic bike to ride and I inevitably get the Jones Plus grin every time I take it out. Thanks everyone for your input, I will add any further information on the Jones Plus if I see anything interesting.

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