Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

No Body
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Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby No Body » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:26 am

May have cracked my Colnago frame when I was riding on a finished bit of road works. The Main Roads widened a section of road,but have not cleaned up the excess gravel used for the road. Now I have a possible cracked frame. If the frame is cracked,who is responsible and are they liable?

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tomee
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby tomee » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:25 am

TBH unless you have proof that the roadworks did the damage you're SOL.

This is why you get insurance on a Colnago

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Tim
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Tim » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:25 am

Warranties cover manufacturing faults.
Stone chips aren't the manufacturer's fault. You (or Main Roads) are responsible for the damage.
I think you've probably only chipped the paintwork. I doubt that road chip-seal aggregate would seriously or structurally damage a bike frame.
Buy some Helicopter tape and cover the downtube.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3M-Superior-Helicopter-Bike-Frame-Protection-OPVC-Tape-RHINO-HIDE-1mx15cm/322675079825?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

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andrewjcw
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby andrewjcw » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:21 am

Physics is responsible. Make the invoice out to Isaac Newton I guess.

If you don't want your bike to suffer regular wear and tear from riding it, my advice would be don't ride it.

li2099
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby li2099 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:37 am

Unfortunately the only way you might get a replacement is through the manufacturer and not without a fight.
This means they'll bare the cost of the damage if they lose out in court.
It'll be like driving on the road with a relatively new car and you got a stone chip. Let say for argument's sake, within 1 month of buying it new.
Next returning to the dealer and ask them to repair/ replace/ refund(most customer's want refund for physical damage. I know because I worked in retail) it and to put blame that the paint is too thin and of "unmerchantable quality" and that this would have stopped you from purchasing it if you had known.
If the LBS can't be bothered arguing with you regarding your own responsibility of riding in a safe environment and to take care of your own bike, they might cop the loss.
Please do not take this personally as I gain nothing from expressing my view for your own predicament.

eeksll
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby eeksll » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:52 am

I would assume (and hope) a bike is strong enough to not crack with rocks thrown up from the road, especially since I ride on gravel every now and then. If it is a crack not a paint chip then I think it should be replaced under the frame warranty.

If its just a paint chip I would personally think thats wear and tear.

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MichaelB
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:20 pm

My 5c worth - yourself.

You could see the gravel and either avoided it or slowed down enough so that it wouldn't be an issue.

Have ridden over many rough roads and gravel, and whilst would reasonably see that a paint chip would result, cannot quite see how a stone would damage the frame. But that's based on info provided, which isn't much at all.

Suck though.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:48 pm

eeksll wrote:I would assume (and hope) a bike is strong enough to not crack with rocks thrown up from the road, especially since I ride on gravel every now and then. If it is a crack not a paint chip then I think it should be replaced under the frame warranty.

If its just a paint chip I would personally think thats wear and tear.


I pretty well agree with this. If it's in warranty, the manufacturer should replace it under warranty.

Outside warranty, you're probably out of luck unfortunately. Thought there have been some cases in Australia (not bicycles that I'm aware of) where manufacturers have been forced to replace product out of the warranty period, because the early failure shouldn't have happened to a properly quality product. See "What is a major problem?" under https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... ace-refund

I don't see how Council / Road Works could be liable for damage caused by some gravel they've left behind.

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Duck!
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Duck! » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:03 pm

Warranty will not cover riding incidents. This is a riding incident.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Comedian
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Comedian » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:11 pm

andrewjcw wrote:Physics is responsible. Make the invoice out to Isaac Newton I guess.

If you don't want your bike to suffer regular wear and tear from riding it, my advice would be don't ride it.

Or buy a bike able to cope with the unexpected. :idea:

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Duck!
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Duck! » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:22 pm

I highly doubt there's any more than surface damage.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:31 pm

Duck! wrote:Warranty will not cover riding incidents. This is a riding incident.


I disagree. A crash would be a riding incident. I would class riding over gravel as ordinary use, and if the bike cracks during ordinary use, then it should be replaceable by warranty (by law, even if the warranty says otherwise, in my non-lawyer opinion).

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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Comedian » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:00 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
Duck! wrote:Warranty will not cover riding incidents. This is a riding incident.


I disagree. A crash would be a riding incident. I would class riding over gravel as ordinary use, and if the bike cracks during ordinary use, then it should be replaceable by warranty (by law, even if the warranty says otherwise, in my non-lawyer opinion).


This is my argument. Should a frame be able to be damaged by a stone chip? Falling over at a cafe? A gumby stack? Being mounted in a trainer? All of these things could reasonably be expected if you own and use a bike.

Yet the bikes that we are buying aren't up to this "punishment". Maybe you'll get away with it - maybe you won't. In years gone by bikes stood up to these kind of incidents and generally lived long lives. Not so much these days.

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Duck!
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Duck! » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:33 pm

Paint has always been susceptible to chipping through normal use. If you think it's ever been otherwise you're deluding yourself.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:34 pm

Comedian wrote:A gumby stack?

I'm in trouble, then. :P

This is why I have Frameskin on my XC MTB. I've taken massive hits on the downtube from softball-sized rocks (aka "babyheads") thrown up by the front wheel at speed, making such a loud bang that everyone in the group heard it. I thought I'd cracked my DT for sure and the bike would be off to Raoul Luescher for repair.

Not a mark :shock:

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Comedian
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Comedian » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:57 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Comedian wrote:A gumby stack?

I'm in trouble, then. :P

This is why I have Frameskin on my XC MTB. I've taken massive hits on the downtube from softball-sized rocks (aka "babyheads") thrown up by the front wheel at speed, making such a loud bang that everyone in the group heard it. I thought I'd cracked my DT for sure and the bike would be off to Raoul Luescher for repair.

Not a mark :shock:

Nice! In fairness.. I think most MTB's have a little more tolerance to impact than road frames - which shows it can be done if people ask for it. At the moment people aren't asking for it, and when it goes wrong they are selling them a new bike ...

Is frame skin the same as this stuff?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Altrex-Skinz-Paint-Protection-Small-305-x-600mm/342367

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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby trailgumby » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:33 pm

Comedian wrote:
trailgumby wrote:
Comedian wrote:A gumby stack?

I'm in trouble, then. :P

This is why I have Frameskin on my XC MTB. I've taken massive hits on the downtube from softball-sized rocks (aka "babyheads") thrown up by the front wheel at speed, making such a loud bang that everyone in the group heard it. I thought I'd cracked my DT for sure and the bike would be off to Raoul Luescher for repair.

Not a mark :shock:

Nice! In fairness.. I think most MTB's have a little more tolerance to impact than road frames - which shows it can be done if people ask for it. At the moment people aren't asking for it, and when it goes wrong they are selling them a new bike ...

Is frame skin the same as this stuff?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Altrex-Skinz-Paint-Protection-Small-305-x-600mm/342367

Can't say for sure. The Frameskin stick-on film is very good.

On impulse I bought some Birzman film I thought was similar from the LBS to cover some areas of frame rub, and it went brown from UV exposure real quick. The Frameskin film was still clear when I sold the bike (a different one from the one in the story above, which i still have) a few years later.

Frameskin kits come pre-cut to fit your specific bike.

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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:53 pm

No Body wrote:May have cracked my Colnago frame when I was riding on a finished bit of road works. The Main Roads widened a section of road,but have not cleaned up the excess gravel used for the road. Now I have a possible cracked frame. If the frame is cracked,who is responsible and are they liable?


Probably be a good idea to post a pic of the damage, so we can all determine if this is actually a cracked frame or just badly chipped paint.
Mmm, SunTour

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Lukeyboy
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:49 pm

It will be a paint crack. And you have no leg to stand on in regards to some gravel on the road. No different than if you had ridden over a pot hole.

If you are going to buy anything to protect your frame buy http://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/products/shelter-road/

Expensive but bloody brilliant and highly recommended. Especially in the downhill/mtb domain.

AdelaidePeter wrote:
Duck! wrote:Warranty will not cover riding incidents. This is a riding incident.


I disagree. A crash would be a riding incident. I would class riding over gravel as ordinary use, and if the bike cracks during ordinary use, then it should be replaceable by warranty (by law, even if the warranty says otherwise, in my non-lawyer opinion).

Warranty does not work that way. Even law/ACCC doesn't work that way. The same with paint fading on your bike. Oh you left your white bike on your apartment balcony everyday for a year and the left side has started to turn yellow overtime? That's not a manufacturing warranty. Even fluro bikes now come with small disclaimers stating that the fluro colour will fade and change over time. Same thing if you hit a pothole and damage your bike/car. Its very difficult from a legal perspective to get any compensation. The only times you are ever entitled to compensation is if you can show proof of negligence, the damage exceeds a fixed amount (varies between council and state roads but its north of $1500) or if you hire a lawyer which will cost more than what the damage was. In most cases a frame strip, carbon repair and frame build would be less than the fixed amount.

For example here is the Transport And Main Roads property damage claims guide https://www.support.transport.qld.gov.a ... %20CFD.pdf

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Lukeyboy
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:56 pm

Comedian wrote:
trailgumby wrote:
Comedian wrote:A gumby stack?

I'm in trouble, then. :P

This is why I have Frameskin on my XC MTB. I've taken massive hits on the downtube from softball-sized rocks (aka "babyheads") thrown up by the front wheel at speed, making such a loud bang that everyone in the group heard it. I thought I'd cracked my DT for sure and the bike would be off to Raoul Luescher for repair.

Not a mark :shock:

Nice! In fairness.. I think most MTB's have a little more tolerance to impact than road frames - which shows it can be done if people ask for it. At the moment people aren't asking for it, and when it goes wrong they are selling them a new bike ...

Is frame skin the same as this stuff?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Altrex-Skinz-Paint-Protection-Small-305-x-600mm/342367


I've seen my bike flipping down the road at 55kph and only had a scuff mark on the saddle. Hanger wasn't even bent.

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Tim
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Tim » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:20 pm

Why waste money on expensive bike frame protection kits?
The 3M branded Helicopter Tape I linked to earlier is heaps cheaper, UV stable, tough and is actually used in the aviation industry on things like chopper blades, wing leading edges, nose cones, antennae etc.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Polyurethane-Protective-Tape-8673?N=5002385+3292668422&rt=rud

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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Comedian » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:33 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:
Comedian wrote:
trailgumby wrote:I'm in trouble, then. :P

This is why I have Frameskin on my XC MTB. I've taken massive hits on the downtube from softball-sized rocks (aka "babyheads") thrown up by the front wheel at speed, making such a loud bang that everyone in the group heard it. I thought I'd cracked my DT for sure and the bike would be off to Raoul Luescher for repair.

Not a mark :shock:

Nice! In fairness.. I think most MTB's have a little more tolerance to impact than road frames - which shows it can be done if people ask for it. At the moment people aren't asking for it, and when it goes wrong they are selling them a new bike ...

Is frame skin the same as this stuff?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Altrex-Skinz-Paint-Protection-Small-305-x-600mm/342367


I've seen my bike flipping down the road at 55kph and only had a scuff mark on the saddle. Hanger wasn't even bent.

You got lucky, Punk. :mrgreen:

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:08 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:I disagree. A crash would be a riding incident. I would class riding over gravel as ordinary use, and if the bike cracks during ordinary use, then it should be replaceable by warranty (by law, even if the warranty says otherwise, in my non-lawyer opinion).


Warranty does not work that way. Even law/ACCC doesn't work that way.


Yes it does work that way. To quote https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... ace-refund , "A product or good has a major problem when: ...it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it". I would suggest that if a bike (other than a very specialised racing bike) cannot ride on a few stones without breaking its frame, then it is not fit for the purpose it was bought for, and it "would have stopped someone buying if they'd known about it". (Whereas your example of a pothole is different - one wouldn't reasonably expect a bike to always survive being ridden through a pothole at speed). At the very least, OP can ask try their luck and ask.

But in any case, I suspect you're correct in that it's not actually a broken frame in this instance.

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Lukeyboy
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:13 pm

Just because the accc says one thing it doesn’t mean that you can use it as a blanket cover for everything. It’s to cover customers from businesses/retailers but also to protect businesses/retailers from customers. A rock was flung up and hit the windscreen of my car and chipped it. If I knew that would happen I would have not bought the car. You would be laughed at by the accc and the dealer you told that too.

My car hit a pothole and cracked the windscreen. If I knew the suspension couldn’t handle hitting a pothole then I would have not brought the car.

As I mentioned earlier the pothole excuse is very difficult to actually get any compo on.

And some of the crap I have seen people trying to claim warranty/citing acc on. Like trying to claim salt water damage under the acc because he rode his bike on the beach and didn’t wash it after or an angry customer who wanted a refund on his tubs because he kept getting punctures as he used them for training/everyday wheels.
Last edited by Lukeyboy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lukeyboy
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Re: Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:26 pm

Comedian wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote:
Comedian wrote:Nice! In fairness.. I think most MTB's have a little more tolerance to impact than road frames - which shows it can be done if people ask for it. At the moment people aren't asking for it, and when it goes wrong they are selling them a new bike ...

Is frame skin the same as this stuff?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Altrex-Skinz-Paint-Protection-Small-305-x-600mm/342367


I've seen my bike flipping down the road at 55kph and only had a scuff mark on the saddle. Hanger wasn't even bent.

You got lucky, Punk. :mrgreen:

The bike was lucky. I ended up in the ER getting free doses of X-rays :P

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