A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

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Derny Driver
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:45 pm

ironhanglider wrote:Your plan involves lots of riding by yourself.

DD says that that is not the way to become a good TT rider.....

Since then it seems that Mitch Wright has demonstrated that he is a pretty decent TT rider, and not bad at the other disciplines either.

Cheers,
Cameron

Mitch ran 3rd in the National u19 Time Trial last year and this year again. He won last years Road Race, went to the World Championships and is also a brilliant track rider. Im pushing him towards a career in 6 day cycling, we will see if that is a possibility or not. Next goal is to win the u23 World Championships.
I should add that I am not his coach, he has a coach who sets his training goals. I help with motorpacing. But I do see what he does in training. And no, its not flogging along at a constant speed day in day out.
For quite a few years now I have helped out Scott Butler, he is a good mate and a friend, and a very experienced rider. Again, I do not tell him how to train but I see what he does. He does love the motorpace sessions and if I had a dollar for every one I have done for him, Id be a millionaire. Scott was 2012 Australian Time Trial champion M4 and has many State and Australian track titles too.
Mark Jewel is also a great time trial rider, he has won everything there is to win, he was NSW cyclist of the year in 2012 and 2015, State criterium champion, and on more than one occasion was Australian track champion of champions. Very experienced guy who coaches himself (no powermeter), but again, I know what he does and ... well lets just say that if you want to win a State or National Title you are going to be up against guys like this who have decades of experience and know how to train properly.
My son could do a 20km time trial at an average speed of 40kph when he was 15 years old ..there is an art to it for sure but one thing that you must have is an ability to hurt yourself. I mean really hurt yourself. On at least 6 occasions I can think of I have had to catch a rider after a TT because they could not get off the bike or they had passed out sitting on the bike.
If you cannot hit 60kph in a short burst you will never time trial at 40kph average. 40kph is fast and you need to include a lot of fast stuff in your training. Thats why we ride around for 2-3 hours behind the moto at 50kph ...to get that speed work done. Ride at 25-28kph by yourself nice and easy, or do some fast stuff, I mean really fast - track work, motorpaced work. If you ride by yourself at 31-36kph then I guarantee you that you will never be any good at any cycling discipline.

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marty_one
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby marty_one » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:53 am

Derny Driver wrote:If you cannot hit 60kph in a short burst you will never time trial at 40kph average. 40kph is fast and you need to include a lot of fast stuff in your training. Thats why we ride around for 2-3 hours behind the moto at 50kph ...to get that speed work done. Ride at 25-28kph by yourself nice and easy, or do some fast stuff, I mean really fast - track work, motorpaced work. If you ride by yourself at 31-36kph then I guarantee you that you will never be any good at any cycling discipline.


Some very wise words here. When I am commuting to work quiet regularly I find myself getting up towards 40kp/h on the flat. The feeling of going that fast under your own power is pretty good (makes riding at 30kp/h feel slow by comparison). But I can't maintain that speed, be lucky if I can keep it up for about 1km.
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby andrewjcw » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:50 am

I'm pretty sure pro triathlete mostly do all their training solo, and some (shock/horror) do a lot of their work on the trainer. A few of them would probably do pretty well at state/nats TT events, I think they would qualify as 'fast'.

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Derny Driver
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby Derny Driver » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:38 pm

andrewjcw wrote:I'm pretty sure pro triathlete mostly do all their training solo, and some (shock/horror) do a lot of their work on the trainer. A few of them would probably do pretty well at state/nats TT events, I think they would qualify as 'fast'.

I disagree. I challenge you to google some results up and show me such a person.
I am good friends with Jamie turner Australian triathlon coach. His elite triathletes are unable to even beat local cyclists in a time trial let alone "do pretty well at state / national events."
I have previously used Mick Maroney as an example of a guy who does 100% of his training indoors. He is strong on a bike but would not win a state tt title. The triathletes who have done so have come from a cycling background and trained like a cyclist. Jonathon Hall is a perfect example. He rode for a couple of years as a Pro cyclist with Festina.

Andrew I see a lot of age group triathletes chugging around out on the roads solo ... but i think your assumption that this is what Pro triathletes do, this is how Pro triathletes train ... is incorrect. If you google "Jamie Turner Wollongong Wizards" you will discover that this group of elite triathletes are the best in the world. Google up Gwen Jorgensenns results. How do they train? By themselves? No. On windtrainers? No.
I can tell you for a fact that Jamie has a weekly booking at the Unanderra velodrome and each of his squad, male and female, have a track bike. The link below has a couple of nice photos of the Australian coach motorpacing the squad on the velodrome. Which backs up my point. Elite triathletes, Olympic gold medallists do FAST track cycling drills, and use motorpacing to improve their time trialling. However, even these talented triathletes would not win a State road TT let alone a National one. That is because they have to train for 3 events, not one.
https://www.aaronroyle.com/wp-content/u ... IZARDS.pdf
Read Aaron Royles bike training on page 41.

http://www.nzedge.com/news/making-athle ... ie-turner/
http://www.nzedge.com/news/jamie-turner ... -the-gong/

Anyway mate, Im not trying to be clever, Im not trying to be right. If people want to do what they have always done and believe what they have always believed, its no skin off my nose. Why would I care? Im just trying to challenge peoples ideas about how to train. In this case, how to train for a TT.
And I never said training alone was a bad thing. Training solo is often necessary. However there is well documented evidence that the best training results come from a group environment, such as the one Jamie has created. But thats another topic.
Cheers

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:32 am

Funnily enough, one of the main reasons I don't do bunch rides or road races (besides the fact they are all 40-100kms away) is the lack of/unsuitable intensity. I don't believe riding to the rhythm or preferences of someone else's body is not the way to get the best out of my body.

That said, the basic concept of suffering through intense training will get no arguments from me, and once I have built a suitable base (a couple of months away yet) there will be plenty of that on here :) . I've got a clear roadmap ahead of me which is essential if I'm to get where I want to go. I remember a few years ago one of the local young guns told me I was the only rider he was scared of, because "you push yourself so hard".


On to the riding, Wednesday and Thursday were both around the 50km mark, but my legs made it clear that they want the base to be built a little more gradually, so back to the 33k short loop Friday morning and a rest today.

Sadly yesterday morning saw me come across this little duck near Boreen Point, with the plastic ring from a drink bottle caught through it's beak, completely stopping it from eating. Being quite weak it was easy to catch and the plastic removed easily without any harm, so fingers crossed it recovers.


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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:15 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Funnily enough, one of the main reasons I don't do bunch rides or road races (besides the fact they are all 40-100kms away) is the lack of/unsuitable intensity. I don't believe riding to the rhythm or preferences of someone else's body is not the way to get the best out of my body.

That said, the basic concept of suffering through intense training will get no arguments from me, and once I have built a suitable base (a couple of months away yet) there will be plenty of that on here :) . I've got a clear roadmap ahead of me which is essential if I'm to get where I want to go. I remember a few years ago one of the local young guns told me I was the only rider he was scared of, because "you push yourself so hard".


On to the riding, Wednesday and Thursday were both around the 50km mark, but my legs made it clear that they want the base to be built a little more gradually, so back to the 33k short loop Friday morning and a rest today.

Sadly yesterday morning saw me come across this little duck near Boreen Point, with the plastic ring from a drink bottle caught through it's beak, completely stopping it from eating. Being quite weak it was easy to catch and the plastic removed easily without any harm, so fingers crossed it recovers.


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Good man - it's a shame to see wildlife suffering like that.

I like your way of training, you are sticking to a plan. I don't think any of us really need to give you any advice, you've done the whole racing thing before.

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby Kronos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:10 am

marty_one wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:If you cannot hit 60kph in a short burst you will never time trial at 40kph average. 40kph is fast and you need to include a lot of fast stuff in your training. Thats why we ride around for 2-3 hours behind the moto at 50kph ...to get that speed work done. Ride at 25-28kph by yourself nice and easy, or do some fast stuff, I mean really fast - track work, motorpaced work. If you ride by yourself at 31-36kph then I guarantee you that you will never be any good at any cycling discipline.


Some very wise words here. When I am commuting to work quiet regularly I find myself getting up towards 40kp/h on the flat. The feeling of going that fast under your own power is pretty good (makes riding at 30kp/h feel slow by comparison). But I can't maintain that speed, be lucky if I can keep it up for about 1km.


Getting used to riding at 40km/hr took me a while to get used to on the old steel frame I've been riding though :lol: its scary that it can get up to pace. There is a lot to be said for the above. If you are going to ride by yourself it can't be a leisure cruise unless that's what your intent is. I ride over the local rolling pinches at 25km/hr or around that on average, but when it comes to the flat stuff you have to really push yourself or you will never be much good as a rider.

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:47 pm

Sorry for the wait between posts, little Winnie being her generous self gave me a dose of Daycare Ebola. I managed to get a 33k short loop in on Monday morning, thinking my lack of zest was down to interrupted sleep (also thanks to Winnie!) but by 10 o clock it was obvious I wasn't well, and after leaving work early there was a bit of the old technicolour yawn going on. I immediately felt a lot better afterwards but still had Tuesday off to be sure.

Friday and Saturday I just did 20k each morning to keep the legs turning, and this morning headed out hoping for 50-60k. I headed for the hills and gave it a bit of welly, and was happy with 45k at a reasonable pace.

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In other news, while the creeks are looking a bit poorly and we'll have to get house water delivered in the next few days, the grass has been growing like mad from what rain we have had, and it's at the point where we really need some of our own cows to keep things under control. Goats aren't an option at Bunderra, as being in the hills means the threat of wild dogs, and fencing would be a monumental undertaking. This means we'll need stockyards, so I'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone by making them out of the wattle regrowth that infests the place.

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With no tractor, and no means to acquire one I've had to get a bit desperate with the motive force. Specifically, fitting my old man's 2wd ute with 4wd wheels and tyres I found on the side of the road, and ignoring the fact it has 1 cylinder running on fuel and 3 running on water courtesy of a corroded block. Top wack downhill on the road is perhaps 70kmh, but for snigging logs it is just able to cut the mustard for now.
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:35 pm

I'm not sure why I'm only managing to post here once a week but I will work on it.

Monday and Tuesday this week saw no riding as my body was still getting rid of the last of last week's cold. I had been getting a bit concerned about my lack of pace, so on Wednesday I headed out on the roads in Noosa after work to see if it was just the energy sucking coarse chip rural roads that were at fault. 46kmh average for the first km of Noosa Parade and 38.5 for the whole 2.8kms suggests that could well be the case :) . At least I can just look at the crummy roads around Kin Kin as a training aid :) .

A short loop on Thursday led into 70k on Australia Day (which for the record I think should be on March 3rd to commemorate the Australia Acts in 1986). It was the reversed, hillier version of the loop I did back on the 7th through Cootharaba and Coles Creek as I was hoping it would work with the forecast wind direction. It was about 50% successful on that count, but I felt very good and had some good average speeds.


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Then this morning I set out with one goal, get the first 100k of the year in the bag. To that end I took it very easy (or as easy as i could with a headwind for the first 45kms). There were some scattered showers around, which normally would infuriate me (I hate few things more than riding with wet shoes) but given how dry it's been I really can't complain.

After that point the wind and terrain was more favourable, but the last 20kms were just a matter of keeping the legs turning over, and the total time was just over 4hrs. LOTS of improvement to come there!


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After a good feed and a nap, I'm now heading outside with Winnie to cut and snig some more logs for the cattleyard, the plan is to get 4 poddy calves on Wednesday.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that with today's ride I'm sitting at 831kms for the month, a touch down on the schedule thanks to that cold last week. 50km loops for the next 3 mornings, and a session at the Noosa crit course Wednesday afternoon would have me at the 1,000km mark, so we'll see how that pans out.
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:15 pm

Fairly quiet this week as far as cycling goes, but that's far from saying it's been a rest week! I realised some time ago that goats are just no damn good in this area (too wet, too many worms) and that I should get back to cows as that's what I grew up with. So after crunching the numbers to make sure it wouldn't be another goat style money sucking bottomless black hole, I took Mrs LDR and Winnie up to Gympie for their first calf sale and ended up with 3 beautiful 2 week old Aussie Red bulls. My parents were involved with this breed when it originated back in the 80s, and it's easy to see why.

Unfortunately, between building a set of yards from scratch out of wattle, camphor laurel, and bamboo I've cut down, and the calves not getting delivered til after 9pm, Wednesday ended up being 17hrs. The last time I can remember being so physically devastated by a single day's activity was the triple century I did back in 2013 which was 14.5hrs.

That complete and utter exhaustion meant no riding til this morning, and the cold rain that started literally within hours of the calves arriving (typical :roll: ) kept me to only 20kms. Given we're on tank water, I figured I may as well give them their breakfast before showering :) .


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Hopefully the rain has cleared in the morning, but a longer ride will have to be done regardless.
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 pm

Only 44kms this morning, I could have added a Boreen Point loop to get it up to 60kms but rain on top of the 40kmh winds had me saying "stuff that!" Wet shoes are a complete showstopper for me :evil: . On the plus side, the early finish left time for a nap to catch up after that hectic week.

I'm incapable of doing too much resting though, so cleared some more lantana and camphor laurel, and got the poddys to drink from my makeshift calfeteria rather than feeding them one at a time.


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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby warthog1 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:52 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
Sadly yesterday morning saw me come across this little duck near Boreen Point, with the plastic ring from a drink bottle caught through it's beak, completely stopping it from eating. Being quite weak it was easy to catch and the plastic removed easily without any harm, so fingers crossed it recovers.


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Nice work 8)

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:37 pm

Pleased to see your posting your "blog" back on here again mate. Your certainly a lot more regular with your posts now.

When are you going to come and hit some gravel epics with Phil and myself again?
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:11 pm

It feels good to be back :-) At the moment my limit is about 100k without too much climbing, and maybe 28kmh average, so a long way off where I need to be to keep up with you two crazies! I reckon by next month I'll be up to scratch, provided I don't do anymore Goat Track heroics :lol: .
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:51 pm

Ha ha
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby Smithstreet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:00 pm

haha... 100km, or not much more seems to be my limit these days. I'm more of a 'smell the roses' type than bash out the big ones and floor yourself!! I think age 'may' have something to do with that. :shock: Anyway, don't hold back on organising something, I'm in.

But promise me one thing..... you'll keep those red and white socks in the drawer that day!! :D :wink:


Oh, and you can stick that 28kmh average where it fits too. Lets keep it 'social', rather than you guys ride off the front and I don't see you all day! :lol:

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Maybe another trip up Stoney Creek without the R Williams Rd at the start.
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby Smithstreet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:07 pm

Sounds good. What sort of dates are we looking at?
I'm out for 10/11 March, doing a ride down Woodenbong way. How about some time this month? Will be another good warm up for the Mawson Trail in April. :D

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:19 pm

sounds good. Just depends on work
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby Smithstreet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:49 pm

Just let me know what Saturdays and Sundays you aren't working and we'll go from there.

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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:33 pm

Just a 33km short loop this morning, to leave time to finally finish building my ex pro bike!

I bought this frameset back in mid 2014, a Merida Road 906 Pro Issue prototype. Made for the Merida Pro Continental team for the 2003 season, it was then sold to the Kalev Chocolate team in Estonia for the 04 season and disappeared after that. Who knows how it ended up in Australia, there's only one other one in the country that I know of. Merida in their wisdom used the FSA Megatech "standard" which was only used on one production bike (a Pinarello which only ran for a year or two) so it took ages to A- work out what the hell it was, and B- track down the last available Megatech to threaded adaptor in the world.

Off to the Noosa crit track tomorrow night to see how it goes :D .


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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Looks good LDR
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:24 pm

A very productive couple of days, last night I headed over to the Girraween crit track to finally meet MattW and JT for an interval session. The Merida took a bit of tinkering, and for the life of me I couldn't get the front derailleur to work 100%, so some investigation needed there. That aside, she rode beautifully, surprisingly so on super skinny 21mm tyres. The intervals themselves were pretty tough, but I hung on better than I expected.

This morning I had to finish off the yards so I could get the poddy calves out of the shed, and what a magnificent impregnable fortress it is!

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Yes well on a budget of $0 some corners need to be cut..


With the morning otherwise occupied, I had to get the riding done in the afternoon, which meant riding in Noosa. And oh the glorious bliss that is proper hotmix bitumen! 39.5km at over 30kmh including a run up Gyndier, without going at 100%. The only problem was putting up with an endless supply of moron cagers getting in the way and slowing me down along the river. Still, if that's the price to pay for smooth roads, I'll take it.


The other positive development is that after a Gumtree search and subsequent phonecall, I have got my hands on my first 29er! If Mrs LDR asks, I'm just looking after it for a mate...


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Should be just what I need for taking the Kilkivan-Kingaroy Rail Trail KOM back (once the legs are up to the task that is!)

Smithstreet wrote:But promise me one thing..... you'll keep those red and white socks in the drawer that day!! :D :wink:


No can do mate, I've got 6 pairs of them and they're the only cycling socks I own atm! :lol:
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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:44 pm

Friday night was another 40kms around town, I did think about just going at a steady pace, but for the life of me I just can't resist the opportunity to draft heavy vehicles, and next thing I'm doing 55...

As with Thursday night though, the great roads were jam packed with great stupidity. Drivers coming to a complete stop at an empty roundabout, indicating left to go straight, not indicating at all, and worst of all, just going unbelievably slowly! If I'm doing 35 in a 50-60 zone, I should not be leaving cars in my dust. I mean sure it feels good to drag race a car uphill and win, but it's not really realistic.

With the work Christmas party on last night (being in the pool industry, it's far too busy to have it at Christmas time) getting up at 4:30 this morning was particularly painful, but I managed to get underway only a little later than planned. The plan was to ride to Eumundi to meet Matt and JT, so to save time I took the highway from Cooroy, and managed Pomona-Eumundi in under half an hour. Unfortunately, that wasn't quite quick enough, as I got to Eumundi to find no other cyclists. So I gave chase (haha) up Eumundi Range Road as best as my non-existent climbing legs could manage but reached Cooroy with still no sign. Turned out I had reached Eumundi just before them, and when they reached the top of the climb without seeing me, they had gone back down and done it again!

I felt bad about that, but once they got back to their normal flat road pace of 35+ into a headwind, I figured I could use all the advantage I could get! Luckily they decided to head home from Pomona and I could continue on to Kin Kin at my own pace (which was particularly slow given I had forgotten to eat until the legs got cranky).


About 5km from home I suddenly realised today is the anniversary of my first date with Mrs LDR, but that problem was easily solved by picking some crepe myrtle flowers in Kin Kin and riding the last 2.5k one handed. FYI- riding along holding a bunch of pink flowers is a sure fire way to get some REALLY odd looks from passing traffic :lol:


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Re: A year in the life of a wannabe racer- Part 4- The Comeback!

Postby find_bruce » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:00 pm

Have spent the day digging up the backyard as the latest installment of SWMBO's plans to keep me from getting idle. I am completely wallaby edward & thought "now is about the time that ldrcycles would go for a ride" but screw that for a joke.

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