BNA Losers Club 2018

Forum rules
The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.
Nobody
Posts: 8940
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby Nobody » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:29 am

Welcome to the BNA Losers Club 2018. A thread for people to post their goal weight/measurements and their progress.


The argument for weighing yourself frequently
A two-year Cornell study, recently published in the Journal of Obesity, found that frequent self-weighing and tracking results on a chart were effective for both losing weight and keeping it off, especially for men.
The method “forces you to be aware of the connection between your eating and your weight,”
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/06/keeping-track-weight-daily-may-tip-scale-your-favor

In conclusion, although there were methodological limitations to the studies reviewed, there was ample evidence for the consistent and significant positive relationship between self-monitoring diet, physical activity or weight and successful outcomes related to weight management.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268700/


Waist and Waist to Height Ratio (WHtR)
Waist measurement is a more important general health indicator than weight/BMI due to being proportional to the amount of visceral (internal) fat one carries. Visceral fat is dangerous because it's metabolically/hormonally active. There is a strong relationship between the amount of visceral fat one carries and chronic diseases. Weight/BMI doesn't tell the whole story of weight loss, often due to increased muscle weight. Also particularly tall or short people are misrepresented by BMI. BMI was originally designed to study populations, not individuals. That is why I post waist and waist to height ratio (WHtR) first. WHtR is beneficial for others to know at what stage of weight loss you are at by body shape.
To make it easier to post WHtR, I've added a calculator link below. Although the ratio is easy to calculate since it's just your waist circumference in cm divided by your height in cm.
WHtR calculator.
The best time to take a waist measurement is first thing in the morning. It should be measured at the circumference point half way between your bottom rib and the top of your hip bone (where your belt runs). This is typically about 2.5 cm above your belly button.
Image

Some information on waist to height ratio (WHtR) and why it's better than BMI for indicating health:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265215.php
http://ashwell.uk.com/images/2005%20IJF ... 0Hsieh.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22106927
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio


Weight and Body Mass Index (BMI)
There is no problem with just posting weights alone, but it doesn't mean much to others. The same applies with waist measurements. So if you want others to know at what stage of weight loss you're at, I encourage you to give a height reference.
To make it easier to post body mass index (BMI), I've added a BMI calculator link below. To calculate manually, it is your weight (W) in kg, divided by the square of your height (Ht) in metres, or W / Ht^2.
BMI calculator.
feet/inches to cm converter.
The best time to measure your weight is first thing in the morning.


Diet, exercise, or both for weight loss?
The three main factors that influence weight/waist are genetics, diet and exercise. Being a cycling forum, most will try to increase their exercise to lose weight. The study below shows that diet is 78% and exercise is 22% of the weight loss equation. Both significant diet change and exercise together is obviously better.
The following is from a the American Institute for Cancer Research blog which summarises a recent study comparing diet and exercise in weight loss.
After 12 months, women in the exercise group lost 2.4% of their body weight; diet only reduced by 8.5% and those exercising and dieting lost 10.8% of their weight. And the more they lost, the more their biomarkers were reduced.

http://blog.aicr.org/2016/07/15/study-lose-weight-through-diet-alone-or-with-exercise-cut-cancer-promoting-substances/#more-18206


The Diet Thread is available to discuss diet, or if you have any questions relating to diet..



A Basic Diet Guide

There are many ways to lose weight through diet. The guide below is with a focus on improving health at the same time.

If you can do it for three weeks and make it part of a new habit, there's a good chance you can do it for life. Some of the suggested changes are going to be challenging. But just like you need to execute an exercise program to get fitter, you need a structural change of diet if you actually want to see significant long term health improvements.

Also I certainly don't have all the answers. What I've written about weight loss below is a summary of what I've learnt in the last 5 years from books, online reading, videos and through the experience of losing 23% of my original body weight and keeping it off. This is while doing less exercise than I did when overweight. Not that exercise isn't important.

This information below may be very different to what you may have read in the mainstream media. That is because the food industries have been distributing marketing as dietary information for decades. They have been involved in basic dietary education around the world (including the USDA's dietary guidelines) as well as funding studies to counter unfavourable findings from legitimate studies.

Anyway below is mainly a basic outline. So if you have any questions, please ask them in the Diet Thread.

Fat Intake

From Dr Neil Barnard of PCRM. Simply put, your body weight plateaus to your fat intake.

Excessive fat intake is most likely the single biggest problem that most people have. Most people are consuming 3 to 4 times the intake required for essential fats. Most of that intake would be useless and/or even damaging fats. Only small amounts of omega 3 & 6 polyunsaturated fats are required by the body. Which in itself should tell you something about high fat diets.

You only need about 1.1g of ALA (omega-3) and 6g of LA (omega-6) to avoid fat deficiency according to the WHO. You can get all this from < 40g of selected nuts and seeds like walnuts, almonds and linseed (flax) in addition to a normal calorie intake.

As an example of the overt fats I eat daily to get all the extra omega-3 and omega-6 fats required:
- 12 g of linseed (for most of my omega-3 ALA).
- 15 g of almonds (for additional omega-6 LA to get more than the minimum. May not be necessary for some).
- a 4 g brazil nut (for omega-6 LA and selenium)
- 200mg DHA supplement. See "Supplements" below for details.

See “Macronutrient Ratio” below for more guidelines on the amount of fat intake.

Calorie Density

Calorie density is the number of calories per set amount of food, say 100g. When calorie density is lower, it makes calorie estimation by your body easier. Higher calorie density foods can be underestimated by most peoples' bodies. Therefore leading to weight gain.
I personally found that a higher fat intake over-rode a low calorie density, therefor adding weight in my case. Even though my total daily calorie density was quite low.
Getting your calorie density lower should help. I found that once under 100 per 100 grams, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to lower it further. At that point it's probably more productive to look at other ways get further weight loss, like lowering fat intake further. Gong very low in calorie density can make you feel bloated by the sheer volume of the food required. At least initially.
Aiming for low calorie density foods usually points one to whole plant foods like fruit and veg. Which do the weight loss work in various ways, of which many of their ways may not be fully yet understood. One of those ways is by improving your microbiome, or gut bacteria over time.

Macronutrient Ratio

This is a guide to help get your diet on track. It describes the ratio of the 3 primary macro nutrients of carbohydrates, fat and protein. It's usually possible to lose weight with any macro-nutrient ratio. But to be healthy and lose weight requires us to stay around certain guidelines. This is based on calorie intake rather than food weight and so you need to know how to calculate it. An example is below:

A 320g frozen meal box labeled “Veal Cordon Bleu”, which is considered to be an average meal by one manufacturer. Meat, veg, sauce etc. The label under “Ave. QUANTITY per 100g” listed 13.4g of carbs, 6g of protein and 8.4g of fat. Probably sounds reasonable to many people since they may have been taught in school home economics that less than 10g of fat per 100g of food is OK.
So with carbs being 4 Cals per gram, protein being 4 Cals per gram and fat being 9 Cals per gram, the Calories for this meal are:
Carbs: 13.4 * 4 = 53.6 Cals
Protein: 6 * 4 = 24 Cals
Fat: 8.4 * 9 = 75.6 Cals
From the sum of those, total = 153.2 Cals.

Now to get the energy or caloric ratio I divide the energy of each macro-nutrient by the total energy.

Carbs: 53.6 / 153.2 = 35%
Protein: 24 / 153.2 = 15.7%
Fat: 75.6 / 153.2 = 49.3%

So there you have a meal with a macro-nutrient ratio of C35:F49:P16 which is a long way from C80:F10:P10. Also the perception of 8.4% of fat now becomes the reality of 49% fat for the energy consumed.

Saturated fat: 3.5g * 9 = 31.5 Cal 31.5 / 153.2 = 20.6%


An example of how indicative average macronutrient ratios can be on average for body shape:

From studying successful early civilisations, the ideal human diet is considered to be C80:F10:P10 (C = carbohydrate, F = fat, P = protein). By following this and therefore keeping fat and protein within a certain range – and assuming you have your calorie density low enough – then you should expect to eventually have a BMI under 25 (WhtR < 0.5) and with a well structured whole food diet, more likely around 21 – 23.

The average American diet:
C40:F40:P20
BMI 28.8

The average Australian diet:
C49:F32:P19
BMI 27

General ideal:
C80:F10:P10
BMI 21 – 23

My diet:
C79:F9:P12
BMI 21
WHtR 0.43
(Average Cal density 60 Cal/100 g. 100+ grams of fibre per day.)

Can you see a pattern?
The association between calories from fat and BMI appears particularly telling.

If you want to start experimenting with this, then get yourself some digital kitchen scales with a 1 gram resolution and join cronometer.com. It can give you the data you need to work out what your diet is like currently.

Animal Products

Animal products can add weight in 3 ways:

Even lean cuts of meat - like chicken breast - have 20% calories from fat. Standard milk is 48% calories from fat and cheese is 70% calories from fat.

Lean animal products can increase blood insulin levels, especially when combined with carbohydrates (which is how most people eat them). The average increase can be up to 43% compared to plant only eaters. Raised insulin levels are associated with adding body weight.

Animal products are usually higher in calorie density, which has been shown to make it harder for your body to regulate your calorie intake.

Liquid Calories

Liquid calories are not estimated/metered well by the body. So those calories will most likely be under estimated, especially if consumed fast. So that means they will usually add weight. An exception to this is soup you eat slowly with a spoon. So that generally limits beverage selection to water and herbal teas.

Caffeine or other stimulants are also not a good idea because you are adding another layer of up and down sensations which may add to cravings. Also Caffeine taken after lunch may interfere with sleep patterns and therefore make you eat more from tiredness the next day.

List of Foods to Avoid and/or Restrict

In no particular order:

Processed grains – restrict
Processed foods (Depends on how processed) – avoid or restrict
Restaurant/take away foods – avoid
Oils (Highest calorie density foods available, no nutrition, causes poor arterial health) – avoid
High fat foods (But a small amount of selected nuts/seeds is a good idea to get essential fats) – restrict
High sugar foods (But not fruit. Sugar is high calorie density, but fruit is low) – avoid
Caffeine/stimulants – avoid
Liquid calories – avoid
Animal products (Usually high in fat, high calorie density, insulin spiking) – avoid
High protein foods (Yes these can be problematic for weight loss too, for at least some people and you can get too much protein) – restrict

Intermittent Feeding/Fasting

Some call this “intermittent fasting”, but technically fasting requires for all your glycogen to be used up. This usually takes 2 days of water only intake to get there, according to Alan Goldhamer of TrueNorth Health Center (an expert in this field).
Intermittent feeding is usually extended breaks between eating within a 24 hour period. Basically it's usually about shortening your daily feeding window so you are not eating for a large part of the day. Most people do this by eating dinner early and then skipping breakfast or eating it at lunch time. I prefer to stack my calorie intake toward the beginning of the day. I found it to be an easier way to calorie restrict, since there is only so much food I can eat in a reduced feeding time window. Especially with a low calorie dense diet. So then when not eating for a while, I don't seem to get very hungry. The downside with my approach is I find it harder to sleep at night. Usually sleeping a shorter number of hours.

Food Addictions

This is likely most people's biggest problem without even realizing it. If you ever eat anything without being hungry, or you actually get strong cravings for certain foods, then you may have a food addiction, or at least a serious problem with certain foods. Many processed foods are actually designed to be addictive. More in the link:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ho ... -addiction
The best way to beat the addiction is – like with smoking and drinking alcohol – to cut the problem foods out completely. Don't bring them into your home and also try to remove your easy access to them. A good way to initially remove them from your diet is to replace/substitute them with healthier foods. Then, in time, replace the healthier foods, with even more healthier foods...

Lifestyle

A complex topic, but one that affects our diet. The problems we have now are largely due to lifestyle choices, often caused by social interations/influences, affluence, time restriction and/or laziness and food companies. Lifestyle is one of the big factors that needs to be changed if you want to be successful over the long term with controlling your weight. Part of this change may require you to be less trusting of others in regard to food preparation and possibly less social. For example, I prepare and cook all my own meals at home. I don't eat restaurant or take away food. I even take food with me to social engagements, so I'm not getting “caught out” or tempted back down a damaging path.
Although I see exercise as secondary to diet, I still see it as an important part of a healthy, weight controlled lifestyle. As is getting enough sleep.

Supplements

If you currently have an average Australian diet then you are already likely deficient in a number of vitamins, fibre, and as well as dealing with the damaging excesses. To confirm this, weigh your food and enter it into conometer.com. The best way to determine what effect - if any - this is having usually requires blood tests. The body - especially when young - can often deal with a number of deficiencies. But excesses are usually more damaging long term.

For those who decide to greatly limit or remove animal products from their diet:

Vitamin B12 - If you choose to avoid animal products, then taking vitamin B12 is essential to avoid neurological and nerve problems which may be irreversible. I take 1000 micro grams per day (ug/d, ug also known as mcg in US) of the methyl type to make sure I'm getting enough.

Vit-D - There is usually none in plant foods, so if not getting enough sunlight, you'll soon run out of vit-D. The recommended intake is about 400 IU per day. So some recommend 600 - 2000 IU per day. So far I've found 2000 IU works better for me over winter. In summer, blood tests show I don't need the supplement. Be careful as you can get too much vit-D from supplements. Occasional blood testing is a good idea.

Iodine - It has been suggested most plant only eaters need this. I found my TSH blood test went up 66% over 3 years without it (not a good result) and a food assessment suggested I was getting as little as 40 ug/d . The recommendation intake is 150 ug/d. So I take about 110 ug/d currently as I only want to avoid deficiency and it's easy to get too much. Which also gives similar thyroid symptoms to deficiency.

Omega-3 fats, ALA/DHA - ALA is the building block the body makes the essential EPA and DHA from. According to the WHO, these are the only essential dietary fats. About 12 grams of ground linseed (flax in US) will give most people enough ALA to return a non-deficient omega-3 index test score. Depending on how much competing omega-6 fats they are eating (mainly from veg oils and processed veg fats). My omega-3 index result (which tests EPA & DHA together in the blood) was 5.8 (at age 50), where according to nutritionfacts.org a study suggests below 4.4 is associated with excessive brain shrinkage as we age. Low omega-3 intake is also associated with lower cognitive ability scores. As EPA is considered to be easily made by the body from ALA, but DHA isn't, taking DHA directly may be of benefit. Since omega-3 testing I have been taking 200 mg of DHA from a non-pollutant algae source. Of what benefit this proves to be for me is yet to be blood tested. Algae is where the fish get it EPA and DHA from, but fish also accumulate pollutants from the world's sewer, otherwise known as the ocean and fish oil is also generally 75% saturated fat.

There are probably other supplements that can be recommended to try. But these four above will probably make the most difference to the average person eating plant only. Most other vitamins and minerals you should get in abundance in a well planned plant only diet. Whether you can absorb or retain them can be found out with blood testing. These four supplements are also recommended in the book "How Not to Die" by Greger of nutritionfacts.org.
https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/


Weight “Set Points”

It is explained in general terms in the video below.
https://youtu.be/BjzJsiLT3cg?t=6m25s

Why diet type makes a big difference:
As a general rule – excluding gluttonous, addictive, or emotional type eating – most people when eating to satiation eat a set number of net calories per day (everything else being equal). Or at least their body thinks it is doing that. And while most think that all calories are equal, the body estimates/monitors the intake of different foods differently. Which can come down to calorie density, among other factors. The body/microbiome also processes different foods differently. So the type of foods you eat (and their percentage of your total diet) have more influence over your weight than most think.

My experience:
I believe the above because I'm a good example of how much diet can change that “set point”. When I was on a standard diet I was about 82 kg (BMI 27.7, WhtR 0.52) and it appeared at the time that regardless of the exercise volume, I would eventually end up back at the same weight. Then I changed my diet. Now I'm currently approximately 63 kg (BMI 21.3, WHtR 0.44) which also fairly independent of exercise (long term) and when eating to satiation, my body tends to gravitate to. I've also been like this for about 5 years. So if I was going to jump back up to 82 kg, it should have happened by now.

So I don't believe in fixed set points, although they appear real enough at the time. I do believe that a combination of genetics, diet and exercise interact to form some kind of stable weight though. Hopefully this will help to defeat a defeatist attitude toward not being able to change weight long term.


Typical Dieting

My observation so far is that many will do this by cutting obvious junk foods and/or limiting processed carbs, often with some portion control. Which often leaves eating mainly animal products and non-starchy salad/veg. This looks much like a low-carb diet.
Historically 99% of people on a general diet - most of them of this type - will fail by the 5 year mark by not maintaining the weight loss. Some will (for whatever reason) even put more weight back on than they originally started with.
I believe that applying the information in this post should be a healthier and more effective way of controlling weight, long term.
Last edited by Nobody on Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 12 times in total.

Nobody
Posts: 8940
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby Nobody » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:47 am

History from Sept 2013:
Waist 90cm, WHtR 0.52
82 kg, BMI 27.7

Today:
Waist 77.5 cm, WHtR 0.448
65.3 kg, BMI 22.0

Goals:
Waist < 75cm, so WHtR < 0.434
Weight = 64 kg.

Not much of a goal. But since I'm already considered under ideal weight for my height and also lifting (a bit), I don't expect to lose much weight. I still think I could lose a kilo or two of fat and some waist size though. I'm also 50 yo this month, so I shouldn't expect too much progress in anything.
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Patt0
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:31 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby Patt0 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:06 am

Thanks Nobody.


5 Jan

Height=183cm
WtHtr = 0.44
Weight=80kg
Waist= 79cm

My goal, steady 75kg.

Plan, restrict and suffer this month and find equilibrium after I reach 74kg.
Image

RobertL
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby RobertL » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:22 am

Date Height Weight Waist BMI WtHR
06/01/2017 189.5 108.2 112 30.13 0.59
25/01/2017 189.5 107.8 111 30.02 0.59
16/02/2017 189.5 106.8 110 29.74 0.58
03/04/2017 189.5 105.9 107 29.49 0.56
01/06/2017 189.5 105.3 106 29.32 0.56
13/07/2017 189.5 104.6 105 29.13 0.55
07/08/2017 189.5 103.7 105 28.88 0.55
04/09/2017 189.5 102.1 104 28.43 0.55
22/11/2017 189.5 101.6 103 28.29 0.54
04/01/2018 189.5 100.7 102 28.04 0.54

That's after starting at about 120kg in mid-2015.

I had hoped to be sub-100kg by the end of 2017, but I don't mind missing that target by a kilo or so.

Future goals:

1. Weight <100kg. Not really a big target from here.

2. WtHR <0.5. A bit hard to predict, but I need to get my weight down to about 95 or 96 kg to do so.

3. Weight <90kg. This would be an absolute "stretch goal". It would be a nice round figure. It would get my BMI down out of the "overweight" category. It would also make me 3/4 of the man I was when I started. :o
Image

CKinnard
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby CKinnard » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:00 am

ht 186cm

1/1/2018, and goal
wt 88kg, 75kg
wst/ht 0.56, 0.45

plan:
strictly no alcohol
reduce caffeine
PBWF diet.
early nights (before 10pm) and early mornings
better stress mgt
socializing more so with like mindeds
more calming activities - walks, reading by the bay.
cycle <4-6hrs/week
kick start the year with 7 day water fast (this helps to resensitize taste buds easing salt and sweet cravings, ease hunger pangs, and improve insulin sensitivity....all this is good for controlling appetite)

rapunzel
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:54 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby rapunzel » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:19 pm

Curious, Nobody - have you seen any info differentiating female / male WHtR? I have previously seen guidelines showing different danger zones for each gender, but that is at the upper limit. The posted chart and things I've looked at don't go into it. Females can realistically have pretty small waists and end up in the 'be careful' zone or 'healthy' zone but not actually be very healthy, or be perfectly healthy and warned that they are not.

Edit - and sorry, posting here as the info is above, but this is a bit more geared to another thread... happy for it to be moved wherever you like

Calvin27
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby Calvin27 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:10 pm

Lost 2.5kg over christmas period doing nothing but eating and drinking.

Got on the bike and realized what I had actually lost.
Fast light bike
Cushy dirt bike
Workhorse bike
No brakes bike
Ebike :)

TheWall
Posts: 755
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby TheWall » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Know that feeling Calvin27.

Interesting chart. At 192cm I was 118kg in June 2014 (size 40) and am now 92kg still shooting for the 90kg goal weight. For the record I was at 98kg at the beginning of 2017 and also at the beginning of Oct17 after a month on holidays (Sth Africans REALLY like their food!). At the beginning I was still firmly in the yellow zone but now sweetly in the green.

My issue is that I have been at 92kg before but my body seems to 'reject' the lower weight and range and I am noticeably hungrier and I bounce back up to 94ish very easily. Grrr...

Open to ideas...

Nobody
Posts: 8940
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby Nobody » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:54 pm

TheWall wrote:My issue is that I have been at 92kg before but my body seems to 'reject' the lower weight and range and I am noticeably hungrier and I bounce back up to 94ish very easily. Grrr...

Open to ideas...

Beside all the psychological factors that CK informs us of and sleep, your weight "set point" is a function of diet quality, genetics and exercise. So with the current volume and intensity of exercise, plus the quality of your diet is defining your "set point". Another factor may be that you lost weight too fast and shocked your body into reacting.

The easiest lever to pull is diet since nearly everyone's diet in AU has plenty of room for improvement. So I suggest you read the diet guide above and try to implement more of it. Change gradually and your body may hardly notice. I proved it works (for me) in late 2016 when I got down to a BMI lower than 20 and a WHtR of less than 0.42. I did that by implementing almost all the guide, plus lowering fat and protein to minimum (safe) levels.

More exercise is often a big ask, but can work. Just don't do it to a level of volume and/or intensity that it overly stresses the body. Since then you'll start to lose sleep.

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:28 pm

Started the year at 96kgs, at 6'2 that is hardly obese but there is a little gut there I'm not happy with. My target is 75kg, not so much in and of itself, but because getting to that weight will require the level of fitness i want to achieve my goals on the bike. Nothing drastic diet wise, just restricted portions and plenty of veg.
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:26 am

Down 4.5kg for the first week, very pleased with that :D
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

warthog1
Posts: 7150
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:17 am

49 yo
186cm
78kg
Target 75ish kg
a bit less meat maybe
a bit less grog if I feel like it. 3 or 4 beers is a big drink for me, but I did that last night whilst cooking the bbq because I felt like it.
Plenty of coffee still (I enjoy it and care not that it is a stimulant, I haven't read any conclusive evidence of its' deleterious health effects)
a few more ks on the bike. 8k km last year, down from 17.5 4 years ago.

I lack the motivation to make wholesale changes to my diet but I eat more fruit and veg than the average and far less sugary crud or fast food than average too.

CKinnard
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:06 am

Just ended a 7 day fast. the scales say I am down 7kg, but less than 2kg would be fat, the rest water, reduced intestinal contents, and lean tissue. glycogen.

Warty, you are right the science is neutral on adverse effects of coffee. However, it is known to lift you, then drop you ~2 hours or more after, when insulin sensitivity can be reduced thereby causing hunger. And many people who use stimulants in the morning are more inclined to use depressants/relaxants (alcohol) in the evening. The more informed doctors I know do not recommend coffee on this basis. Nevertheless, it's a habit I still enjoy, and have difficulty breaking. But will attempt to do so in 2018.

warthog1
Posts: 7150
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:32 am

Thanks CK.
I doesn't seem to make me hungry.
I don't need to take alcohol to sleep.
In fact, I find alcohol negatively impacts on the quality and quantity of my sleep.
I have a coffee grinder and espresso machine at home.
I take great pleasure in it and plan to continue it.
It is something my wife and I share and it is net positive imo.
Neither of us drink it after midday.

warthog1
Posts: 7150
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:41 am

With respect to sleep rotating shift work is what effects me the most.
We do 2 14hr night shifts followed by 2 10 hr day shifts and 3 days off.
I find I sometimes need to take a restavit on the first night of sleep after the night shifts.
It is getting worse as I get older.
I plan to get a prescription for melatonin and try that next.
I am building a medical case for a flexible work agreement after 55 to cease nightshift.
It is a class 2a carcinogen and associated with shorter life expectancy and higher rates of chronic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954516/

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:36 pm

I've sworn off ever working nights again, doing 11pm-5am shifts at a service station had such horrendous effects on me physically and mentally.
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

CKinnard
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:16 am

Warty, try to catch the last 12 minutes of this vid.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5m1ks3

It's a Michael Mosley doc, on sleep. Screened for first time last night on Channel 9.

There's growing evidence diet influences sleep more than ever believed before.
This time, it is via feeding the microbiome appropriately, so they create molecules (short chain fatty acids) that help us relax and sleep.
The food that helps they mentioned are most types of legumes, but especially lentils and chickpeas.

There's also a prebiotic powder supplement that includes galactooligosaccharides (which come from legumes) that is more concentrated. The brand used in the UK by Mosley was Bimuno Daily Powder, but there's other brands available in Oz.

I am not one to believe in a cure all pill, but think there's merit in trialing increased legume intake and maybe a prebiotic for a month.

Either way, my gf is a shift worker and she eats very healthy, and still gets crabby and has to be disciplined with her sleep hygiene.

warthog1
Posts: 7150
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:00 pm

CKinnard wrote:Warty, try to catch the last 12 minutes of this vid.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5m1ks3

It's a Michael Mosley doc, on sleep. Screened for first time last night on Channel 9.

There's growing evidence diet influences sleep more than ever believed before.
This time, it is via feeding the microbiome appropriately, so they create molecules (short chain fatty acids) that help us relax and sleep.
The food that helps they mentioned are most types of legumes, but especially lentils and chickpeas.

There's also a prebiotic powder supplement that includes galactooligosaccharides (which come from legumes) that is more concentrated. The brand used in the UK by Mosley was Bimuno Daily Powder, but there's other brands available in Oz.

I am not one to believe in a cure all pill, but think there's merit in trialing increased legume intake and maybe a prebiotic for a month.

Either way, my gf is a shift worker and she eats very healthy, and still gets crabby and has to be disciplined with her sleep hygiene.



I will do thanks.
It is the rotational part of the shift work that is killing me.
Sleep quality commonly declines with age I believe. We still need it but it is harder to get.
I have been doing shift work for 16 years and my diet and BMI is better now than it was when I started.
My sleep quality is way worse though. I have trouble getting to sleep and when my bladder wakes me after I've got there I have trouble getting back again.
I have older colleagues who are no longer doing night shift. They are expressing a dramatic improvement in their well-being physically, mentally and emotionally.

warthog1
Posts: 7150
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:01 pm

CKinnard wrote:
Either way, my gf is a shift worker and she eats very healthy, and still gets crabby and has to be disciplined with her sleep hygiene.



My wife doesn't do shift work and is crabby also. Not sure what to blame that on :( :lol:

CKinnard
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:26 pm

Your rotations are rubbish! I don't know how the company gets away with that. It transgresses most of the guidelines I am aware of. Personally I think shift workers should stay on the same shift times for at least 4 weeks, before changing. Though the many shift workers I've spoken to haven't necessarily agreed. I agree with you it is the jilt of rotating from day to night that is what stresses the body, and mind...

Yes I am sure my gf would laugh and smile more if she wasn't thinking about her next shift all the time. she really lets go when she has 2 or more weeks vacation.

Nobody
Posts: 8940
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby Nobody » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:54 am

7 days since last post.

Waist 77.5 cm, WHtR 0.448 - same
64.9 kg, BMI 21.7 - down 0.4

Goals:
Waist < 75cm
Weight = 64 kg

nemo57
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby nemo57 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:26 pm

warthog1 wrote:With respect to sleep rotating shift work is what effects me the most.
We do 2 14hr night shifts followed by 2 10 hr day shifts and 3 days off.
I find I sometimes need to take a restavit on the first night of sleep after the night shifts.
It is getting worse as I get older.
I plan to get a prescription for melatonin and try that next.
I am building a medical case for a flexible work agreement after 55 to cease nightshift.
It is a class 2a carcinogen and associated with shorter life expectancy and higher rates of chronic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954516/

You don't need me to tell you how hideous rotating shift work is. Melatonin doesn't require prescription in the US, and you can import it from there without trouble - at least that's my wife's experience.
Available from iherb.com (she says they're usually the cheapest) or vitaminshoppe.com

tcdev
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:08 pm
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby tcdev » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:54 pm

Well back again for another round after giving up tracking any real weight loss about half way through 2017. Although I did lose a few kg overall for the year, and doubled the number of km on the bike I did the previous year, a very lax diet saw most of that potential blown away. At least I didn't go backwards! :)

Having achieved (much) more than I originally planned on the bike for 2017, I've decided this year to set my weight loss goals in terms of cycling. What I mean is, I'm aiming this year for an FTP of 2.5W/kg (according to my dumb trainer). At my current weight, that would be almost impossible to achieve within the number of hours I can dedicate to cycling, but if I lose about 10kg it should just be doable. So I'm turning this around now and rather than using cycling to attain my weight loss goal, I'm using weight loss to (help) attain my cycling goal! 8)

I only set my cycling (distance) goal 10% higher this year, so I'm confident I know what's involved and how to achieve it. However I also know that meeting that goal alone won't go far towards losing the weight I need to lose - a trap that my rational mind already knew but my subconscious still held out for! No such self-delusion this year; my focus will be first and foremost on diet.

Anyway, quite excited about it all this year and very interested to see if this new approach means better success for me!

Starting weight 01/01/2018 - 95kg. (FTP 2W/kg)
Goal (FTP 2.5W/kg). Estimated weight 85kg!
2015 Giant XTC Advanced 29er 1, Suunto Ambit2 Black
2011 Schwinn Sporterra Comp

warthog1
Posts: 7150
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:35 pm

nemo57 wrote:
warthog1 wrote:With respect to sleep rotating shift work is what effects me the most.
We do 2 14hr night shifts followed by 2 10 hr day shifts and 3 days off.
I find I sometimes need to take a restavit on the first night of sleep after the night shifts.
It is getting worse as I get older.
I plan to get a prescription for melatonin and try that next.
I am building a medical case for a flexible work agreement after 55 to cease nightshift.
It is a class 2a carcinogen and associated with shorter life expectancy and higher rates of chronic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954516/

You don't need me to tell you how hideous rotating shift work is. Melatonin doesn't require prescription in the US, and you can import it from there without trouble - at least that's my wife's experience.
Available from iherb.com (she says they're usually the cheapest) or vitaminshoppe.com

Championne :D

Thanks mate 8)

Just ordered some 3mg tablets through iherb.com

CKinnard
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: BNA Losers Club 2018

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:36 pm

warthog1 wrote:Championne :D

Thanks mate 8)

Just ordered some 3mg tablets through iherb.com


Let us know how it goes Warty.
My clinical view is results are highly variable. The lit. says people get to sleep better, but are not aided cognitively...and benefit diminishes after a few days.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users