Training WITH a PM ...

g-boaf
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 pm

MichaelB wrote:Now, if I was going to do 2 weeks in Europe again or an event like the Haute Route like others have mentioned above, I'd be getting a coach for sure.

I've already done my 2 week trip and as much as I'd love to go back, I don't think it will happen soon :cry:


You don't need a coach for Haute Route!

The best thing you can do is just hill repeats or simulated efforts on a smart trainer than matches the time you'll be spending in the hills. Lower cadence than you'd normally ride too. That works.

And then go sleep in an altitude tent at night for four or five weeks ahead of it if you really want to get serious.

You don't need to do anything really complicated.

If you really want to beat Cedrick Dubois, then you are just going to have to ride in those mountains all the time.

Otherwise just go over there and have fun, enjoy the cities, the scenery and food and the great people you'll meet.

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:13 pm

Everything's been going pretty well and lots of data gathering, learning, reading and seeing how things feel at various HR's and power readings, but not concentrating on power numbers, except the odd climb.

And that's when I noticed it. On a climb the other day, every now & then, the 3s power reading would drop to 0 for a few seconds, and then get back to where it should be. The few times I noticed it, it was "meh, it's an odd dropout" and didn't fuss. I noticed it a few more times, but it was a couple of rides before I could sit down and have a deeper look at the data to try and work out the issue.

Below is a snip of a couple of rides where it happened. You can see in the 1st one, it only started happening at the end of the ride, but then on the next one, anything with a sustained incline and consistent power, the W & cadence would drop out every minute for 8-10 sec quite regularly ...

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Did a bit of googling and best option I came up with was to replace the battery. Thankfully on the FSA Powerbox (nee P2M NGeco), it was pretty easy.

Until I do a sustained climb, I can't be sure it's fixed, but the last two rides I've done seem to be OK.

Maybe the battery it came with was down on power, dunno.

Standing by to standby.

What annoys me, is that means for the last three decent rides, the data is somewhat corrupted (and will take some time to work itself out), as it shows an overall lower power, but HR is still high, so the F/F/F graphs and FTP calcs are a bit out.

Meh. Just gotta worry about how to handle 170km with a forecast of 41 degrees !!! Discretion may be the better part of valour !! :o

g-boaf
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:38 pm

Just did a google search, coin battery? I've heard with some devices those are notoriously troublesome, the voltage has to be just right.

And on my old stages PM, the battery cover tabs would always break, causing the battery not to connect properly. Hence why I've given up on using the stages. Bumps sometimes would upset it and I used to keep it properly secured with electrical tape, which was also a way to stop water getting into it.

The drop outs you are getting can't be anything like that, they are too regular and nearly perfect intervals.

The HR being high is something I can't say too much about. I use a HR monitor and do watch it, but mainly I go on feel. I can feel when it is going too high and then you work out do you ease off a bit or can you just keep going. I think most experienced riders can do that.

170km in 41C is tough temperatures is very tough. Find the lightest jersey you have - the really light ones are awesome for those conditions and don't forget your hydration. Good luck in that. And it's also a matter of balancing going easy enough to not destroy yourself with going fast enough that you don't just overheat. The slower you go in those temperatures, you still overheat anyway with the lack of airflow.

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:26 pm

HR is high as I was going hard !!! My max is 195 :|

Anyway, jersey choice is something I don't have as you MUST wear the official one. Or the Gods will descend :roll:

I have enough common sense (not sure about others) to take it easy and have no qualms in pulling the pin part way through. It's a course that once you reach a certain point, you are committed, there is no short way back.

I reckon that's at Cudlee Creek, so I'll see on the day. I'll also start early to get ahead of the marauding pack and the heat. It'll be 25 degrees overnight, so already warmish to start.

Whilst Friday hasn't arrived yet, the forecasts seem to keep ramping up and some sections are pretty exposed (heat and wind).

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foo on patrol
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby foo on patrol » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:20 am

I still think you should be on scratch at the Rocky Cup. :mrgreen: :lol:

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queequeg
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby queequeg » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 am

MichaelB wrote:HR is high as I was going hard !!! My max is 195 :|

Anyway, jersey choice is something I don't have as you MUST wear the official one. Or the Gods will descend :roll:

I have enough common sense (not sure about others) to take it easy and have no qualms in pulling the pin part way through. It's a course that once you reach a certain point, you are committed, there is no short way back.

I reckon that's at Cudlee Creek, so I'll see on the day. I'll also start early to get ahead of the marauding pack and the heat. It'll be 25 degrees overnight, so already warmish to start.

Whilst Friday hasn't arrived yet, the forecasts seem to keep ramping up and some sections are pretty exposed (heat and wind).


Yeah, I did the BUPA ride year before last, riding with Jens Voigt. Jensie wasn't wearing the official jersey, and even though he was the ride ambassador, the volunteers at the rest stops refused him entry and he had to go buy a sausage roll at the BP Service station!
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Looks like the Bupa Challenge ride will be cancelled due to the heat. Bugger

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biker jk
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby biker jk » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:07 pm

MichaelB wrote:Looks like the Bupa Challenge ride will be cancelled due to the heat. Bugger


The problem is that they won't announce any cancellation until just before 5.30am on the day of the ride which officially starts at 6am. So you'll need to turn up ready to ride.

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:00 pm

Not really. That is the latest they can announce. Given the forecast for Adelaide and the area the ride goes to is 41 degrees from the BOM, I’m not riding.

Makes no sense. My life is worth more. Pity, but that’s life

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biker jk
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby biker jk » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:31 pm

MichaelB wrote:Not really. That is the latest they can announce. Given the forecast for Adelaide and the area the ride goes to is 41 degrees from the BOM, I’m not riding.

Makes no sense. My life is worth more. Pity, but that’s life


That was on the official web site regarding extreme weather. It didn't make sense to leave it so late to make a decision. Indeed BUPA have just sent out a text saying they will decide Thursday evening. I agree it is dangerous for the event to proceed in such hot conditions. In 2010 when temperatures exceeded 40 degress, riders were dropping like flies and many needed to go to hospital.

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biker jk
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby biker jk » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:18 pm

BUPA Challenge cancelled due to extreme weather conditions. It is the right decision.

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:24 am

biker jk wrote:BUPA Challenge cancelled due to extreme weather conditions. It is the right decision.


Agree. Pity though. Plan is to do it in a few weeks.

Even better is the full refund. :mrgreen:



Anyone want an unused 2XL jersey for postage costs ? Still in bag and haven't even tried it on :?:

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:24 pm

OK, so it was about 4 weeks since I did my 1st FTP-ish type run up Greenhill Rd (numbers from another post below) ;
MichaelB wrote:Now that the PM is all working like it should, did a 1st go at an FTP-ish type run, in that I went for it up Greenhill Rd in Adelaide. ....
... (The climb is 7.2km and averages 6.6%, with a steep pitch at the beginning, but is pretty consistent). Numbers are ;
Speed - Max 17.4km/hr, Avg 13.4 km/hr
Power - Max 424W, Avg 294W
Edit : Peak 20min Power : 297W
HR - Max 184bpm, Avg 167bpm
Cadence - Max 91rpm, Avg 76rpm
...


So, it's time for another run. Broke the 1st Golden Rule in trying to keep the main details the same (longer ride to base of climb, two bottles etc), but meh, can only do so much. There was some slight headwind coming round some bends, but wasn't too bad.

Better time, but I went a bit harder too
Speed - Max 18.4km/hr, Avg 13.8 km/hr
Power - Max 513W, Avg 303W
Peak 20min Power : 305W
HR - Max 190bpm, Avg 175bpm
Cadence - Max 103rpm, Avg 78rpm
Time : 31:14 (previous time on 1st Jan was 31:49)

So, in some ways an improvement, but bloody hell it was a hard ride !!! At least I got a PB for the climb by 17sec, but would have loved to get under 31 min ....

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Fri May 25, 2018 9:44 am

Quick update - noticed that on my ride this morning via Belair Rd, decided to have the power screen visible to try something. Noted the power reading dropping out, and then realised that the battery must be dying again. Looked up the graphs on TrainingPeaks when I got to work, and sure enough, it's been happening for about 2-3 weeks.

So, the only gripe so far is that the battery life is nowhere near the 400hrs/12,000km. At least it's easily replaced !!!

UPDATE : Dug out the online FSA Powerbox manual to double check the battery number, and if there were any tips to check the battery life.

It's odd, but it never mentions WHAT battery to replace it with :?: but gives you the breakdown of what the blinks mean when the PM gets 'activated'. In my case, it was the two green flashes (indicating a 40-60% charge), so when a new battery was popped in, it went to the single green flash indicating 60-100% charge.

Whilst I got a no-name (actually 'texcus' branded chinese battery from the camera store) one to get me going, I also ordered some better ones (Energizer Lithium 620mAh) online, so will be interesting to see how long they last.

Will be keeping a better eye on the battery condition now !!!

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queequeg
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby queequeg » Fri May 25, 2018 12:57 pm

MichaelB wrote:Quick update - noticed that on my ride this morning via Belair Rd, decided to have the power screen visible to try something. Noted the power reading dropping out, and then realised that the battery must be dying again. Looked up the graphs on TrainingPeaks when I got to work, and sure enough, it's been happening for about 2-3 weeks.

So, the only gripe so far is that the battery life is nowhere near the 400hrs/12,000km. At least it's easily replaced !!!

UPDATE : Dug out the online FSA Powerbox manual to double check the battery number, and if there were any tips to check the battery life.

It's odd, but it never mentions WHAT battery to replace it with :?: but gives you the breakdown of what the blinks mean when the PM gets 'activated'. In my case, it was the two green flashes (indicating a 40-60% charge), so when a new battery was popped in, it went to the single green flash indicating 60-100% charge.

Whilst I got a no-name (actually 'texcus' branded chinese battery from the camera store) one to get me going, I also ordered some better ones (Energizer Lithium 620mAh) online, so will be interesting to see how long they last.

Will be keeping a better eye on the battery condition now !!!


Does it use the same as the p2max? I'd assume so. I have about 6 spare Renata batteries at home. I am still on my original batteries, which state they get about 400 hours of use.

Cheers,

Paul
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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andrewjcw
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby andrewjcw » Fri May 25, 2018 1:18 pm

Yes, the P2Max manual is very specific...

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Fri May 25, 2018 1:36 pm

queequeg wrote:
Does it use the same as the p2max? I'd assume so. I have about 6 spare Renata batteries at home. I am still on my original batteries, which state they get about 400 hours of use.

Cheers,

Paul


Presume so, it's a CR2450. I suspect that the one I initially fitted is a bit rubbish, hence getting some decent Energizer Lithium ones.

There is no info on their site re the power/capacity, but the Energizer were 620 mAh, and many others were in the 520-550 mAh range. The Renata CR2450N data sheet lists 540mAh, so hopefully the Energizer ones will do the trick.

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Fri May 25, 2018 1:37 pm

andrewjcw wrote:Yes, the P2Max manual is very specific...


:lol: :lol: :roll: The FSA one is pretty useless and doesn't even mention the battery type.

May get some of the Renata ones of the Energizer bunnies aren't up to the task !!

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queequeg
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby queequeg » Fri May 25, 2018 3:07 pm

MichaelB wrote:
andrewjcw wrote:Yes, the P2Max manual is very specific...


:lol: :lol: :roll: The FSA one is pretty useless and doesn't even mention the battery type.

May get some of the Renata ones of the Energizer bunnies aren't up to the task !!



http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/ ... 7225/.html
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Fri May 25, 2018 4:09 pm



And those specs are different than that Renata ones ...

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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby macca33 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:20 pm

I had an oem Renata one go in my P2M S this morning - it had done 3600Km, over 2 years in all weather/conditions on my CX rig.

I've used Energizer ones in the other P2M S and they do not last as long - didn't remember to log the Km, but no more than two-thirds, at a guess.

cheers
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MichaelB
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Re: Training WITH a PM ...

Postby MichaelB » Fri May 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Ta, will look at ordering some Renata ones then !!

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