Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

hez
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:20 am

Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:00 am

Hi,
My girlfriend and I have been living in Sydney for a year and a half and we have already been to: Hunter Valley, Mudgee, Kangaroo Valley/berry/jervis bay/kiama/wollongong, lithgow-penrith-richmond-windsor-kurrajong-wiseman's ferry and we've done pretty much all (road) rides in, around and close to Sydney.
For the Australia day weekend (we know since two days ago we will have the weekend and the monday off) we want to do small cyclotouring trip and I found this:

"To the Rim of Australia's Big Smoke" https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o= ... 11918&v=7g
Goulburn - Abercrombie River - Jenolan Caves - Katoomba

We will do it with our gravel/cx bikes with rack and panniers (and tent and all). We have 25c and 28c road slicks or 33c CX tyres, still to decide which ones we will be using... I would like to do a gravel ride for once in Australia, but I never find anything!

We live in Sydney, so the idea is:

- Friday 26:
Take the train to Goulburn (3h), do some tourism and sleep in the camping there.
or...
after the tourism (I don't know how much to see is there in Goulburn), take the road to Taralga (~45km) and sleep in the camping there.

- Saturday 27:
Go to Abercrombie River and sleep there in the Natural Park campground.. but... which one?!?!

- Sunday 28:
Go to Jenolan Caves, visit a cave or something, have a proper dinner, shower, use the room a little...

- Monday 29 (we have the day off):
Take the Coxs Road (unsealed), go to Mt. Victoria, do the Berghofers trail (if we have to walk and push the bike we walk and push the bike), go to Katoomba, have lunch there and take the train back home.

What do you think?
What would you change?
Slicks or CX tyres?
During the route do you know where will be able to get water? and food?

Another alternative would be to go to Canberra on thursday evening (we have some friends who live there, already visited), go from there to Wollongong in 3 days and on monday go back home from Wollongong by train (we have done Sydney to Wollongong twice already and we've been a couple of time more to the Royal National Park)

Any other alternatives? Other mini-trip suggestions (we can go from Sydney by train)?

Thank you!

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queequeg
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby queequeg » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:19 am

There was an event last year that was mostly gravel. I am sure you can find the route.

https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-r ... tral-coast

There are a lot of gravels roads around Sydney, you just have to know where to look.

https://www.audax.org.au/portal/index.p ... -ride-2017

Around Sydney's North-West is a lot of fairly rustic roads (Windsor, Wisemans Ferry, St Albans, Richmond, Bilpin etc), with fair chunks of gravel and unsealed roads. I'll be doing some exploring later in the year once my Gravel Grinder arrives and I have some fitness back after being off the bike for extended period due to injury.

For some Canberra options, I found this one: https://www.audax.org.au/portal/index.p ... nment-2017
Audax also has these mixed terrain rides: https://audax.org.au/public/index.php/c ... ed-terrain
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

hez
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

queequeg wrote:There was an event last year that was mostly gravel. I am sure you can find the route.

https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-r ... tral-coast

There are a lot of gravels roads around Sydney, you just have to know where to look.

https://www.audax.org.au/portal/index.p ... -ride-2017

Around Sydney's North-West is a lot of fairly rustic roads (Windsor, Wisemans Ferry, St Albans, Richmond, Bilpin etc), with fair chunks of gravel and unsealed roads. I'll be doing some exploring later in the year once my Gravel Grinder arrives and I have some fitness back after being off the bike for extended period due to injury.

For some Canberra options, I found this one: https://www.audax.org.au/portal/index.p ... nment-2017
Audax also has these mixed terrain rides: https://audax.org.au/public/index.php/c ... ed-terrain


We already did a couple of segments around Bilpin, Windsor, Richmond and Wiseman's ferry... good enough with the 28c continental slicks. Not the great northern road. Maybe we can do that other time.

Thank you for the info. I'll try to keep an eye open on these things. The problem is I don't own a car here so I have two options: take a train or rent a car for the weekend. If I rent a car I would like to do at least two rides and go somewhere nice where there's more stuff a part from the rides, you know?

Tell me when you get your gravel bike and I go exploring with you! :P
Proposal: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/3769669
starting and ending at Richmond's train station would be 50% unsealed, 100km and 1000m aprox. to get started :P

Any suggestion for a short-3-day-cyclotouring-trip?
Last edited by hez on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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queequeg
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby queequeg » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:52 pm

hez wrote:
queequeg wrote:There was an event last year that was mostly gravel. I am sure you can find the route.

https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-r ... tral-coast

There are a lot of gravels roads around Sydney, you just have to know where to look.

https://www.audax.org.au/portal/index.p ... -ride-2017

Around Sydney's North-West is a lot of fairly rustic roads (Windsor, Wisemans Ferry, St Albans, Richmond, Bilpin etc), with fair chunks of gravel and unsealed roads. I'll be doing some exploring later in the year once my Gravel Grinder arrives and I have some fitness back after being off the bike for extended period due to injury.

For some Canberra options, I found this one: https://www.audax.org.au/portal/index.p ... nment-2017
Audax also has these mixed terrain rides: https://audax.org.au/public/index.php/c ... ed-terrain


We already did a couple of segments around Bilpin, Windsor, Richmond and Wiseman's ferry... good enough with the 28c continental slicks. Not the great northern road. Maybe we can do that other time.

Thank you for the info. I'll try to keep an eye open on these things. The problem is I don't own a car here so I have two options: take a train or rent a car for the weekend. If I rent a car I would like to do at least two rides and go somewhere nice where there's more stuff a part from the rides, you know?

Tell me when you get your gravel bike and I go exploring with you! :P

Any suggestion for a short-3-day-cyclotouring-trip?


I haven't put that much research into yet, but my idea is to leave the car at home and take everything I need with me on the bike. The new frameset is designed with bikepacking in mind. It can take a rack, or just use framebags. I would certainly like to give some of the roads around the hunter and central coast a go, and maybe see what is on offer around Barrington Tops, and through Thunderbolts Way and off the beaten track.

Locally I want to try Sackville to Broke via Lower Portland/St Albans/Bucketty and have a look around Yengo National Park.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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baabaa
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby baabaa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:31 pm

Do the ride as you have plotted out.
For a moment I saw Goulburn - Abercrombie River and gagged a bit as the ride via Crookwell and Trunkey Creek to the Abercrombie (Caves) River Nat Park campsite (a bit west of your route) is one hell of a hard ride to do in one run.... but yes all that route is a great ride and you wont regret it one bit.
I have done this and several of options all linking back up to Katoomba from the south, west and north and that part of the world is a real gem which many people who travel by car miss out on. Expect to see lots of wildlife and and even more smelly black wallabies but just expect that it can get cold snaps in around that area even during summer.Some of the hills in and out bordering the Kanangra-Boyd National Park will test you out but pack light and you will be fine.
CX (AT) 33? yes as the gravel is a bit sharp and while the dirt is good a after the rain some of the logging trucks can cut up the road a bit. Unless you stay at Caves House don't expect any favors as it is really Guests vs the rest. Water you should be fine and if you go short just ask with some of the houses / farm houses that you can see close to the road if you can refill your bottles.
A hint - if you do travel light, think about a walk and push the bikes up the historic Berghofers Pass to Mt Vic, I haven't done this for a few years now but I think the path is way better than it once was and you could get away with more pushing than shouldering your bikes on the way up. I guess you could chain them up, do the walk up and down a bit then keep on riding up to Mt Vic via the Mt York road. So much to see in around the western Blue Mtns...
Anyway have fun!!

hez
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:20 am

Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:32 am

baabaa wrote:Do the ride as you have plotted out.
For a moment I saw Goulburn - Abercrombie River and gagged a bit as the ride via Crookwell and Trunkey Creek to the Abercrombie (Caves) River Nat Park campsite (a bit west of your route) is one hell of a hard ride to do in one run.... but yes all that route is a great ride and you wont regret it one bit.
I have done this and several of options all linking back up to Katoomba from the south, west and north and that part of the world is a real gem which many people who travel by car miss out on. Expect to see lots of wildlife and and even more smelly black wallabies but just expect that it can get cold snaps in around that area even during summer.Some of the hills in and out bordering the Kanangra-Boyd National Park will test you out but pack light and you will be fine.
CX (AT) 33? yes as the gravel is a bit sharp and while the dirt is good a after the rain some of the logging trucks can cut up the road a bit. Unless you stay at Caves House don't expect any favors as it is really Guests vs the rest. Water you should be fine and if you go short just ask with some of the houses / farm houses that you can see close to the road if you can refill your bottles.
A hint - if you do travel light, think about a walk and push the bikes up the historic Berghofers Pass to Mt Vic, I haven't done this for a few years now but I think the path is way better than it once was and you could get away with more pushing than shouldering your bikes on the way up. I guess you could chain them up, do the walk up and down a bit then keep on riding up to Mt Vic via the Mt York road. So much to see in around the western Blue Mtns...
Anyway have fun!!



Hi baabaa,

No! We are doing the easy way... jejeje
I have the plan almost ready!

- Day 1: <10km <100m Mosman to Goulburn by train. Visit Goulburn, eat something, sleep in the camping.

- Day 2: 77.5km 925m Goulburn to Bummaroo Ford Campground (Abercrombie River) via Taralga, sleep in the tent watch for platypus?

- Day 3: 68.9km 1418m Bummaroo Ford Campground (Abercrombie River) to Jenolan Caves. Get up really early, do the ride, get a room, visit caves, little hike, watch for platypus? use the bed if you know what I mean... ;)

- Day 4: 74.4km 1696m Jenolan Caves to Katoomba via Coxs River Road, Berghofers Pass, Mount Victoria. We plan on doing the Berhofers pass pushing the bike or riding if we can and there's not many people walking. We are doing this on a monday, I hope there are not many people around... Then go to have lunch to Katoomba, maybe go to see the three sisters from the road or something like that, take the train to North Sydney and ride back home (extra 5km).

I've bought a Marmot Catalyst 3p tent (2.8kg), the OZTrail Pro Strectch self-inflatable sleeping pads/mats (0.75kg each) and we are only carrying 3 breakfasts and 2 meals, the rest we can eat on pubs or whatever, we're not carrying stove or cooking stuff.
We will definitely use the CX tyres (33c) and we will be carrying rack (topeak, alu) and panniers (ortlieb).
I hope we can manage to keep the weight of my bike under 30kg in total (with 5L of water and bike included) and my girlfriend's a little less. What do you think? Is that light or way to heavy for what we're carrying? :S

The problem is from Taralga to Jenolan caves there's 90km 2000m, one night and two meals without a source of water and we are in summer. :S

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Warin
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby Warin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:50 pm

Taralga to Jenolan Caves;
Where the Tuglow River crosses Tuglow Forest Road you may find camping and water.

Choosing the shortest route (might be hilly) sees you cross several creeks, there is also the Mt Werong Campground that may have water - west off the Mt Werong Firetrail.

hez
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:10 pm

Warin wrote:Taralga to Jenolan Caves;
Where the Tuglow River crosses Tuglow Forest Road you may find camping and water.

Choosing the shortest route (might be hilly) sees you cross several creeks, there is also the Mt Werong Campground that may have water - west off the Mt Werong Firetrail.


Mmmm I'm not sure about "the shortest route" thing... I used the strava route creator and I put start: "Bummaroo Campground" and end: "jenolan caves house".
I will play around with the map a little bit more. We are going to use the CX tyres, so maybe I'd prefer a shorter-but-dirt-instead-of-road way ;)

but... when you say "water" do you mean a river or a proper sanitary fountain / deposit?

Thank you!

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baabaa
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby baabaa » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:18 pm

Yes, plenty of camping but in and around state pine forests which in that spot are more or less mars like and void of real life. Dingo Dell camping area is a good option to get back to the real oz bush. Not sure I would drink that untreated or un-boiled water to be honest.
Oh and platypus, could do if you get up really early with still water which you probably will as the lyre birds down around that way will seek out any *tent and start singing the best tunes it knows at about 4.45 in the morning (*just outside it, with scratching and fussing and making sure you know his songs are the best).

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Warin
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby Warin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:23 am

For shortest route calculation I use Garmins Mapsource with OSM data.

A shortest calculated route gets some 86.6 km, I noted those campgrounds as being alongside that route.

I did not do any further searches for you ... but as you asked ... for Mt Werong
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/cam ... campground
says drinking water and toilets... you can read the rest yourself.

The other one is along side a river in a state forest... Think you can work that out.

Going via Dingo Dell gets 96.6 km, so adds ~10km.

NOVISCOTT
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby NOVISCOTT » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:22 am

There is the Caves to Caves 4wd trip that will get you from Wombeyon to Jenolan as an option. We camped at Mt Werong which was handy as there are stone buildings there that can save you the need to pitch the tent if it's quiet.

Heading Sth to North its Langs Rd, onto Range Fire Trail Rd, onto Mt Werong Rd, onto Banshee, the Kowmung River FT. Note, I think on last look if there has being much rain you will be crossing Kowmung River with your bike above your head! Then it's just follow your nose to Jenolan

There are some significant hills, so it'd be a pretty hard slog, but it's some nice bush

I would also be throwing a pack of water purification tablets into your gear given how little water you are carrying. If stuck you can make creek water drinkable without boiling

hez
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:24 pm

Warin wrote:For shortest route calculation I use Garmins Mapsource with OSM data.

A shortest calculated route gets some 86.6 km, I noted those campgrounds as being alongside that route.

I did not do any further searches for you ... but as you asked ... for Mt Werong
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/cam ... campground
says drinking water and toilets... you can read the rest yourself.

The other one is along side a river in a state forest... Think you can work that out.

Going via Dingo Dell gets 96.6 km, so adds ~10km.


Wow! Thank you very much. I didn't expect you to do my research, thanks again.
So do you think will be better to do that instead of the proposed route?
The idea is to do it in three days, the last day (jenolan caves to katoomba via coxs river road and berhofers pass) is final, the other two days... the only final things are: starting in goulburn and ending in jenolan caves (we have already reserved the camping and the hotel).
I would like to do more or less half the effort each day, if there's more climbing on the second day do more km on the first one, so maybe the Dingo Dell is a little too close to Jenolan and too far away from Goulburn, but Werong sounds promising. What I'm more interested is in things to see or quality of the travel, not so much into the state of the road/path but being able to see more landscapes, interesting (local) plant life and wild life. The drinking water is a bonus.

hez
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:27 pm

baabaa wrote:Yes, plenty of camping but in and around state pine forests which in that spot are more or less mars like and void of real life. Dingo Dell camping area is a good option to get back to the real oz bush. Not sure I would drink that untreated or un-boiled water to be honest.
Oh and platypus, could do if you get up really early with still water which you probably will as the lyre birds down around that way will seek out any *tent and start singing the best tunes it knows at about 4.45 in the morning (*just outside it, with scratching and fussing and making sure you know his songs are the best).


jejejeje
love the lyre birds thing jejeje
I'm sure at 4:45 wont be so amused but, it's part of the Australian adventure! ;)

Yes, I wouldn't drink water from a river, specially here because I don't know the area and the conditions...

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Warin
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby Warin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:16 pm

Hot weather maybe a problem? That could make a large difference to your water consumption.
Have alternate plans with shorter days/distances. Don't make it a set schedule think - leads to over extending yourself and a not so happy holiday.

There is a bus that runs from Jenolan to Katoomba.. expensive (~$50 each) and I don't know if it takes bikes .. but that could be an option if required.

I'd list all the camp grounds in the general area, then connect them up, one to another on a map. Then if you find the going hard .. stop at the next camp ground and figure out tomorrows ride from there using what you have done that day.

That keeps it flexible. Of course if things go well you can pick and chose based on the attractions of camp grounds and roads.

hez
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Re: Short cyclotouring trip near Sydney

Postby hez » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:21 pm

Warin wrote:Hot weather maybe a problem? That could make a large difference to your water consumption.
Have alternate plans with shorter days/distances. Don't make it a set schedule think - leads to over extending yourself and a not so happy holiday.

There is a bus that runs from Jenolan to Katoomba.. expensive (~$50 each) and I don't know if it takes bikes .. but that could be an option if required.

I'd list all the camp grounds in the general area, then connect them up, one to another on a map. Then if you find the going hard .. stop at the next camp ground and figure out tomorrows ride from there using what you have done that day.

That keeps it flexible. Of course if things go well you can pick and chose based on the attractions of camp grounds and roads.


Well, I think unless we have a catastrophe we will keep on going, but thank you. Wise advice.

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