Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

BobtheBuilder
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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby BobtheBuilder » Tue May 01, 2018 5:38 pm

I think there is a cultural shift towards cycling in this country - at the moment it's being led by rich lads in lycra, who many (including cyclists!) love to hate, but culturally, the pursuits of the well-paid elite tend to spread more widely over time.
Of course there are hippies like me who've always cycled, more as a form of transport than leisure, and with emergence of (faux) vintage bikes, bike-as-transport is also becoming more popular... at least in aspiration. With the cycle-unfriendly atmosphere of the big cities and the anti-cyclist laws, particularly in NSW, the transfer from aspiration into habit might be stunted.

I thought this recent article by Guy Rundle highlighted the social status of cycling as a pursuit of the well-off elite. It's linked here (to read all of it, you'll have to sign up for a free trial if you're not a subscriber - I'm not sure of etiquette on this forum, but didn't want to spam a post with a big long article!) - https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/04/11/ta ... ted-ideals

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 01, 2018 7:56 pm

BobtheBuilder wrote:being led by rich lads in lycra


I can find you heaps of riders who are certainly not rich, they don't have much money. But they've saved up to get the bike they race. Or in a couple of cases, they worked multiple jobs to be able to have afford a fairly nice bike.

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby BobtheBuilder » Tue May 01, 2018 8:11 pm

g-boaf wrote:I can find you heaps of riders who are certainly not rich


It's just a light-hearted generalisation.

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby tcdev » Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 pm

human909 wrote: :P Not such thing as too cold, just not the right clothing! Seriously, wear appropriate clothing and you can readily cycle in all the low temps Australia can throw at you. For city riding that just means whatever your favourite jacket is. For sporting riding that just means layers, thermals and light wind-stopper. Gloves and balaclava if you feel the cold.

Cold weather and exercise don't go well together for me. Firstly, I generally don't feel the cold as much as most people - I've climbed Kosciusko (in November) in a T-shirt - so I'm right when I can still get away with 'summer' clothing. In 4 years cycling in Sydney I've never worn anything more than a thin cotton long-sleeved top over my summer jersey, and that has always come off mid-ride.

But when it dips below that though, I have a conundrum. When I exercise, I heat up - and heat up big. And I also sweat buckets. Big buckets. Forget 'breathable' materials or materials that 'wick water away'; I'm soon peeling off layers and all the while getting drenched. And when I stop for any length of time, I'm cold and wet and therefore I begin to freeze. The last time I went skiing - in winter - I had just a T-shirt on under my jacket and was walking around Thredbo village at lunchtime with my jacket around my waist, trying to dry out before I cooled down enough to feel the cold weather.
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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed May 02, 2018 7:18 am

human909 wrote: :P Not such thing as too cold, just not the right clothing! Seriously, wear appropriate clothing and you can readily cycle in all the low temps Australia can throw at you.

Being able to and enjoying doing it are two different things.

At one time in my life darkness, cold, rain, high winds etc would never be an impediment but my motivation for cycling then was different. I'm older and see no point in cycling if I'm not going to enjoy it. Going out in sub zero temperatures and/or with a filthy wind chill factor is not enjoyable.

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby Mugglechops » Wed May 02, 2018 9:38 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Inland gets too cold in the winter but yes Canberra has great options. KV roads aren't that great. OK for a long weekend training camp/tour but to head out of KV the road options are not overly cycle friendly. And the nearest regional town is Nowra.

Bright is good for part of the year but a long way from larger regional centre.


What's wrong with Nowra :-)

If you don't mind gravel you can get from Nowra to KV on a nice back road. Plenty of nice riding around Berry now it's bypassed. Lots of singletrack if you ride MTB. Beaches to ride a Fatbike on with zero car worries.

Not the best drivers but you can stay off most main roads.

In saying that though, I am moving to Wagga at the end of this year :-)
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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby march83 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:07 am

I've lived near Penrith all my life and when I go to Nowra I get a very similar vibe. No offence to anyone who lives there, but it's a place I don't mind going to, but I wouldn't make a conscious choice to stay. In terms of personality, I don't exactly fit in with a crowd of tradies so I don't think it would be a particularly good fit for me.
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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby RobertL » Wed May 02, 2018 10:11 am

BobtheBuilder wrote:I think there is a cultural shift towards cycling in this country - at the moment it's being led by rich lads in lycra, who many (including cyclists!) love to hate, but culturally, the pursuits of the well-paid elite tend to spread more widely over time.
Of course there are hippies like me who've always cycled, more as a form of transport than leisure, and with emergence of (faux) vintage bikes, bike-as-transport is also becoming more popular... at least in aspiration. With the cycle-unfriendly atmosphere of the big cities and the anti-cyclist laws, particularly in NSW, the transfer from aspiration into habit might be stunted.

I thought this recent article by Guy Rundle highlighted the social status of cycling as a pursuit of the well-off elite. It's linked here (to read all of it, you'll have to sign up for a free trial if you're not a subscriber - I'm not sure of etiquette on this forum, but didn't want to spam a post with a big long article!) - https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/04/11/ta ... ted-ideals


I agree with all of this, but everybody is forgetting the cycle delivery folk. And I mean "everybody" as in all bike planning, conversations, considerations etc.

Surely having a gazillion Foodora and Deliveroo cyclists out and about must have some impact on the perception of cycling in general?
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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby human909 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:41 pm

tcdev wrote:
human909 wrote: :P Not such thing as too cold, just not the right clothing! Seriously, wear appropriate clothing and you can readily cycle in all the low temps Australia can throw at you. For city riding that just means whatever your favourite jacket is. For sporting riding that just means layers, thermals and light wind-stopper. Gloves and balaclava if you feel the cold.

Cold weather and exercise don't go well together for me. Firstly, I generally don't feel the cold as much as most people - I've climbed Kosciusko (in November) in a T-shirt - so I'm right when I can still get away with 'summer' clothing. In 4 years cycling in Sydney I've never worn anything more than a thin cotton long-sleeved top over my summer jersey, and that has always come off mid-ride.

But when it dips below that though, I have a conundrum. When I exercise, I heat up - and heat up big. And I also sweat buckets. Big buckets. Forget 'breathable' materials or materials that 'wick water away'; I'm soon peeling off layers and all the while getting drenched. And when I stop for any length of time, I'm cold and wet and therefore I begin to freeze. The last time I went skiing - in winter - I had just a T-shirt on under my jacket and was walking around Thredbo village at lunchtime with my jacket around my waist, trying to dry out before I cooled down enough to feel the cold weather.


That conundrum is not at all specific to you. Thankfully it is readily solved by appropriate layered clothing. I frequently exercise in environments where I might have my shirt off and sweating buckets and then later be layered up with thick down and a jacket in high winds and sleet.

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Being able to and enjoying doing it are two different things.
.....I'm older and see no point in cycling if I'm not going to enjoy it.
.....Going out in sub zero temperatures and/or with a filthy wind chill factor is not enjoyable.

I absolutely agree with all these sentiments.

Though in many circumstances they can be readily overcome with appropriate clothing, some of the comments earlier do indicate that some people could explore clothing options a little better. As somebody who has cycled in snow and sub zero temperatures I've never found in anyway unpleasant. Just layer up.

(All that said my comments might seem a little hypocritical. :oops: I did have plans this weekend to spend a day on a 200m cliff. But with sub 10C temperatures forecast and a decent wind potential it is looking less likely. :( Any hint of rain and its a no go.)

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby Mulger bill » Sun May 06, 2018 7:28 pm

RobertL wrote:Surely having a gazillion Foodora and Deliveroo cyclists out and about must have some impact on the perception of cycling in general?

Mostly bad I suspect, like most gig economy subbies paid piecework rates they're more worried about getting the next job done than playing nice
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby DavidS » Tue May 08, 2018 11:13 pm

With congestion on the roads, parking issues and packed public transport, the potential is certainly there. All of the above is one of the reasons I started riding to work. However, we will truly know we are hitting a tipping point when the solution to these problems isn't simply to devote even more of our cities to infrastructure built predominantly for cars. And, we'll know the point has well and truly tipped when they start closing lanes to cars.

A couple of little sprouts appearing though. StKilda Rd in Melbourne is a disaster area for driving for the next 5 or more years as they build then new underground train. The bridge into town from the South in Melbourne (Princes Bridge) had a lane removed for cars inbound to create now more space for bikes. When these stop being isolated examples we will have got to the point where things are changing.

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby jindydiver » Wed May 09, 2018 6:43 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
JPB wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:No. Not even close. IMO.


And a bigger school, Woden High circa 1969/70:
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Nowadays it's a conga line of SUVs with barely a bicycle in sight.


I was at WVH in the 70's and that bike area was always chocka (had lovely trees around it by then). My kids old HS in Wanniassa just got rid of their dedicated bike area this year :(

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed May 16, 2018 9:02 am

Saw this chart recently about transport modes for kids in Ireland. It's an issue common to many nations.

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Unfortunately there is no source listed for the data.

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby Bob_Hornsby » Fri May 18, 2018 7:51 pm

Nice ad, sorry if it was already posted it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQvp8tXUNyE

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Re: Tipping point in society's attitude towards cycling and bike riding

Postby Comedian » Sat May 19, 2018 12:57 pm

So, the Active Travel Councillor in Brisbane told a group of advocates that times were changing.

He said that people were now coming to realise that continuing to do more cars and more roads was not working and congestion was becoming the biggest problem of our time.

He said public attitude is that providing more public transport is good - however the public was still hostile to cycling and cyclists. Until that changes BCC will continue to encourage cycling as they are now. IE to build bike paths on floodways and encourage people to drive to there and ride. In all other situations the needs of drivers for road space or parking will continue to be 1,2,3 so cycling for transport just isn't going to happen.

I read the publics attitude that they are quite prepared for someone else to sacrifice their car trip so that they can have a better one. They are happy for them to catch public transport - or even ride as long as they stay off the roads and out of their way.

Maybe this is slowly changing in BNE but it's a loooong way from being at a tipping point.

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