GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

uad782
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby uad782 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:30 am

My main concern is whether sites such as Massdrop will just stop shipping to Australia. I agree the 10% additional cost is not really a game changer but when companies stop shipping it is.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:02 pm

I guess the main issue is modifying the software to collect the GST. I'm wondering if other countries have done this GST collection and if so then some of the online sellers already have the software
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Ross
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Ross » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:22 pm

uad782 wrote:My main concern is whether sites such as Massdrop will just stop shipping to Australia. I agree the 10% additional cost is not really a game changer but when companies stop shipping it is.


Can't you use a freight forwarder? I'm guessing that using a FF would add an extra cost that may make it not viable?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:51 pm

I've started ordering my racing rubber now, because I'll be buggered if I'm going to pay more for my racing tubs. They are dear enough now, without another 10% on top of them. :evil:

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby nezumi » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:32 pm

I dithered on buying a replacement 6800 front mech at the end of last week. Bikebug have it at $39.95, Wiggle/CRC had it at $29, then at $32, then at $40 (with CRC lagging Wiggle by at least a day on price changes).
I ended up getting it from Merlin, once I had decided what else I needed to hit the free shipping min.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:11 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I guess the main issue is modifying the software to collect the GST. I'm wondering if other countries have done this GST collection and if so then some of the online sellers already have the software


Yes they already do it for VAT which is basically GST.
Lots of UK sellers already have it sorted out so that international shipping gets VAT exclusive pricing.

Wiggle already have a very complex Delivery Destination system. Play with the destination, base price and discounts are different for almost every country, even Italy vs Vatican have different pricing despite Vatican being part of Rome.

EU/UK stores are probably used to taxation red tape and can handle it pretty well.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:53 pm

nezumi wrote:I dithered on buying a replacement 6800 front mech at the end of last week. Bikebug have it at $39.95, Wiggle/CRC had it at $29, then at $32, then at $40 (with CRC lagging Wiggle by at least a day on price changes).
I ended up getting it from Merlin, once I had decided what else I needed to hit the free shipping min.

I live 200mtrs from the Bikebug distribution warehouse and they have pickup, so in my case there's a postage savings. Then there's speed of delivery, if your in a hurry. But with a $11 difference in price its showing that its well worth shopping around
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby nezumi » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:36 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
nezumi wrote:I dithered on buying a replacement 6800 front mech at the end of last week. Bikebug have it at $39.95, Wiggle/CRC had it at $29, then at $32, then at $40 (with CRC lagging Wiggle by at least a day on price changes).
I ended up getting it from Merlin, once I had decided what else I needed to hit the free shipping min.

I live 200mtrs from the Bikebug distribution warehouse and they have pickup, so in my case there's a postage savings. Then there's speed of delivery, if your in a hurry. But with a $11 difference in price its showing that its well worth shopping around


If Merlin hadn't had the lower price, I would have grabbed it from BikeBug - would have just meant a detour on the ride home to do the pickup, but worth it. I probably could have asked for a price match on that basis (Aussie seller, bricks n mortar), but it wasn't worth it.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby jaseyjase » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:04 pm

Looks like Evans Cycles will cease shipping to Aus, just got an email from em

EVANS CYCLES SERVICE UPDATE


With the Australian tax law policy changing on July 1st, 2018, we will no longer be able to meet our current pricing and level of service.
It is therefore with regret that we will stop shipping to Australia from June 14th, 2018.

WHAT HAPPENS TO CURRENT ORDERS?
Any orders that were placed before June 14th will be sent if the goods are in stock. The same applies to any outstanding backorders. Should this deadline not be met, we reserve the right to contact you to arrange a refund.

We will cease to send you marketing emails, however, you will receive transactional emails until any outstanding orders are completed.

Thank you for your choosing Evans Cycles in the past, we hope to be able to reverse this position at some point in the future.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby ball bearing » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:45 pm

My latest Evan's order just cleared Aussie customs. What a shame this will be the last one.

I predict that this GST business is going to become a huge annoyance as the new reality sinks in and there will be a political price to pay.

The Americans have increased the personal import tax threshold from $200 to $800 because processing low value imports was costing too much, and they also wanted to facilitate the freedom of shopping online.

Why are we becoming so backwards in so many ways?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby BJL » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:53 pm

What exactly is the actual problem with online retailers charging GST? Billing systems aren't stupid these days. I'd be willing to bet that the software used these days has a 'sales tax' setting for every single country they're setup to ship to. So I highly doubt the issues are at the retailer's end.

So is this a case of the Australian government deliberately making the payment of GST by online retailers difficult so they give up?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Cheesewheel » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:01 pm

I'm putting in a bike24 order tonight due to the uncertainty whether they will ship to australia after the deadline.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby queequeg » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:43 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:I'm putting in a bike24 order tonight due to the uncertainty whether they will ship to australia after the deadline.


I better get in as well. Have to sort my Dyno light.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby DavidS » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:57 pm

I just got a Bike24 order but I'm thinking of another before the deadline: tubes, tyres, cassettes etc.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:28 am

Wow.... this is big news and though they were never as strong as other brands (because they never did any serious marketing or promotion in Australia) it was still an easy market for them.

I am assuming that it is the ‘too hard basket’. On the one side there us the technology... changed to systems are not free and easy, but it is doable when the outcomes appear positive.

I think that a bigger hurdle us understanding the requirenents and complying. In the EU the customs zones and taxes are all on the sane basis - it is just the tax rates that change but the collection and payment is regulated.

Now some country with (imo) backwards politics comes along and demands that retailers in this category have to learn the systen, they have operate according to laws in another jurisdication (not at the point that a product enters Australia, but when it is ordered), they have to collect and pay the taxes and it all has to magically fit within their own bookkeeping and make sense according to their own tax laws. What about all of the jazz and admin of send large amounts of cash overseas with XC, fees and compliance of registering higher money transfers.

Many of these things can be solved but the point is.... it doesn’t just happen. It costs time and admin... then the lawyers come in to see if it works and it gets complicated.


The end result is that Australian consumers will be the losers because it is not evening out retail price, it will stop some retailers selling and making their products available.

I asked the ATO specifically about this and of course, spokespeople will always look for a positive spin... so the conceivable consequences were not addressed but the Evans Cycles reaction is a very clear response which reflects upon the Australian system and reduces consumer choice.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:00 am

Meh, Evans is not a huge loss, as I have only used them once.

I guess some of the smaller places will probably do something similar, but see places like PBK, Wiggle and the German places will probably be happy, as it just takes another competitor out of the system for Aus sales.

I still think there will be plenty of places to purchase from, and it just will cost a smidge more. :?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby queequeg » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:55 pm

Home Affairs has updated their information about the Low Value Threshold Processing. Note that they now expect that every Low Value Item coming into the country is in ICS

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/busi/car ... taxes/low-

Businesses that are registered for GST and sell low value goods to consumers in Australia, are required to provide all relevant information on import documents, e.g. import declarations or self-assessed clearance documents.

To support the ATO and facilitate the movement of low value goods across the border, changes have been made to the Integrated Cargo System (ICS) (see also Home Affairs Notice 2018/13) to collect additional information, including:

Vendor ID – the GST registration number (ARN) or ABN of the business selling the goods.
Importer ID – the ABN of the purchasing business to identify goods imported by a business for use in their business in Australia.
GST-paid exemption code, where applicable, to identify when GST has been paid on a low value good at the point of sale.

Providing this information will also help prevent double taxation at the border.

Businesses who are suppliers for GST purposes as well as transporters/customs brokers may need to prepare business systems and processes for the changes to the ICS before 1 July 2018.

See also External Release Notes 17.04.02.


https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Customsn ... 018-13.pdf

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Cargosup ... -17402.pdf
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby ball bearing » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Does anyone know if the new tax assessment commences on the purchase date or is it the arrival in Australia date?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Cheesewheel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:32 pm

ball bearing wrote:Does anyone know if the new tax assessment commences on the purchase date or is it the arrival in Australia date?

From what I understand it is about getting suppliers to be compliant after the july deadline ... so if they are accepting orders and shiping them out before the deadline I wouldn't expect there is anything to be done from the australian side of things .... although that said, given the whole project has a star trek feel to it ("going where no man has gone before") and australian policy makers have a habit of legislating first and asking questions later, its not clear exactly which articles of fruit in this basket are pear shaped. For instance, its not even clear what will happen if a supplier disregards this provincial requirement, what will the australian authorities do with the parcel when it arrives on their shores, ... much less if such a transgression should occur in this grey window frame of time?
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Cheesewheel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:01 pm

This new legislation could be a FOMO event that unlocks a torrent of online shopping that inadvertently pops the economic bubble of australia .... :)
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby DavidS » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:15 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:
ball bearing wrote:Does anyone know if the new tax assessment commences on the purchase date or is it the arrival in Australia date?

From what I understand it is about getting suppliers to be compliant after the july deadline ... so if they are accepting orders and shiping them out before the deadline I wouldn't expect there is anything to be done from the australian side of things .... although that said, given the whole project has a star trek feel to it ("going where no man has gone before") and australian policy makers have a habit of legislating first and asking questions later, its not clear exactly which articles of fruit in this basket are pear shaped. For instance, its not even clear what will happen if a supplier disregards this provincial requirement, what will the australian authorities do with the parcel when it arrives on their shores, ... much less if such a transgression should occur in this grey window frame of time?


Or, what if a foreign supplier decides that, since they are not in Australia and therefore not subject to Australian laws, they will just claim the GST is paid and send it here? This notion of enforcing Australian laws overseas is somewhat absurd.

This is a silly law, I have no objection in principle to GST on lower value purchases, but the complications of doing this for such small transactions does seem overkill. It won't help Australian retail unless they help themselves and do something about the ridiculous distributor model and can get closer to online prices.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:31 am

The implementation of this, as evidenced by Evans doing a runner, is going to be the deciding factor and I wouldn't be surprised if other OS online sellers pulled the plug. Also don't think any of this will help local bricks/mortar sellers but will most definitely see places like BikeBug, Pushys etc enjoy increased sales. And in reality the Govt doesn't care as long as they maintain their income streams..
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:29 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:And in reality the Govt doesn't care as long as they maintain their income streams..


This is an interesting point - even if there are changes to imports, politicians can easily attribute it to other factors.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby bychosis » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:34 am

Seems it’s just going to reduce competition as OS suppliers drop off. That only means price rises.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:54 am

bychosis wrote:Seems it’s just going to reduce competition as OS suppliers drop off. That only means price rises.


Which in turn further augments the income stream...
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