Putting the "oh no" into obikes

human909
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Re: And the English ...

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:31 am

Calvin27 wrote:
human909 wrote:"Cashing in on data" and running a bike share scheme are not mutually exclusive. Your claim "Obike cannot cash in on the data and successfully keep the bicycle scheme going at the same time" implies they are.


Well if you barely have the resources to produce a management plan, then that is mutually exclusive.

"Mutually exclusive" I don't think you understand what this word means. Either way. No use arguing with somebody who isn't making a coherent point.

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Re: And the English ...

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:37 am

human909 wrote:
Calvin27 wrote:
human909 wrote:"Cashing in on data" and running a bike share scheme are not mutually exclusive. Your claim "Obike cannot cash in on the data and successfully keep the bicycle scheme going at the same time" implies they are.


Well if you barely have the resources to produce a management plan, then that is mutually exclusive.

"Mutually exclusive" I don't think you understand what this word means. Either way. No use arguing with somebody who isn't making a coherent point.


'two events are mutually exclusive or disjoint if they cannot both occur'

I just said they do not have resources to both run a bike share scheme that is compliant and sell data. I think you might have some reading issues buddy.
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Re: And the English ...

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:58 pm

Thoglette wrote:But savvy investors shouldn't worry: Mickey Fong, EJI Insight reports on A new business model for bike-sharing service which gets rid of the need to actually own those pesky bicycles


This shows why the real issue of bike parking needs to be addressed, it won't go away.

In the end any bicycle with an electronic networking lock can be a bikeshare and the app operator is simply a payment and management gateway connecting peers.
The lock doesn't need to be part of the bike, just an electronic cable or D lock, so how do laws even apply to bikeshare bikes when they are any bike? It's the lock which makes it a bikeshare but just having an electronic lock doesn't mean its a bikeshare because electronic locks are going to become more popular in future.

Bikes are going to clutter footpaths until there are more bike parking spaces/poles and some sort of regulation that if an available formal parking area is within 20m you must park there instead of random footpath.

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby fat and old » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:22 pm

Is there actually any data on cycle parking vs motor vehicle parking (on street) in any of the CBD's? I started to look at Melbourne but got sick of actually physically counting them. I have my suspicions about this.

By cycle parking I refer to a council supplied/installed fixture like a bike hoop (stand alone or pole mounted).

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Thoglette
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The high cost of "free" parking

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:36 pm

Jmuzz wrote:This shows why the real issue of bike parking needs to be addressed, it won't go away.


And, to requote Eben Weiss aka BSNYC
BSNYC wrote:The problem isn’t dockless bikes. It's dockless cars.


BSNYC wrote:Ultimately, our fear of dockless bikes reveals three things:
1. We set aside an insane amount of space for cars;
2. We’ve become so inured to this state of affairs that anything occupying the tiny sliver of public space that remains seems out of place if it’s not either a car or part of a car;
3. The solution isn’t cracking down on shareable last-mile forms of conveyance, it’s making more room for them.


It's now been two decades since Donald Shoup published "The High Cost of Free Parking" (Journal of Planning Education and Research 17:3-20) and it seems nothing much has changed.
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human909
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:11 pm

Image

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Thoglette
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:54 am

More chatter
Can the share bike business survive in Australia?

Mostly puff and vox-pop, including Craig Richards at BN, but includes one mild attempt at research
Susan Lannin, ABC News wrote:It's clear from overseas cities that bike share schemes need to be part of the transport network to be effective.

Deloitte partner Kellie Nuttall said the numbers from US show that docked schemes are far more popular than dockless schemes.
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Ross
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Ross » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:24 am

Dockless firm Ofo battling to survive against resurgent Mobike
Ofo scales back operations, sheds staff, "shrinks global footprint".

https://www.bikebiz.com/business/ofo-scaling-back

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Ross
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:59 pm

The Australian-owned company Airbike will release a fleet of 200 dockless bikes in Canberra at the end of the month.

https://the-riotact.com/hopes-ride-on-b ... ial/256389

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 pm

Ross wrote:The Australian-owned company Airbike will release a fleet of 200 dockless bikes in Canberra at the end of the month.


Looks like wheel lock plus weak spoked wheels.

Wish they wouldn't, just going to damage the image more. Though inner Canberra should be less destructive than other states.

These things need cable locks so randoms can't just carry them away. And need to be more durable, these wheels will all be buckled quickly.

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Thoglette
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Thoglette » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:39 am

Ross wrote:The Australian-owned company Airbike will release a fleet of 200 dockless bikes in Canberra at the end of the month.

Also on the ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-16/d ... ne/9998052
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Howzat
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Howzat » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:04 pm

Ross wrote:The Australian-owned company Airbike will release a fleet of 200 dockless bikes in Canberra at the end of the month.


The government ought to make them pre-pay the cost of fishing 200 bikes out of the lake.

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby human909 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:33 pm

Howzat wrote:The government ought to make them pre-pay the cost of fishing 200 bikes out of the lake.

That is about as sensible as making supermarkets pre-pay the cost of fishing shopping trolleys out of lakes.

I don't get this widespread hostility in these forums against share bicycles. It strikes me as a perverse for of elitism. Cycling is good as long as you do it on your own bicycle that costs a month's wages. :roll:

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:20 am

human909 wrote:
Howzat wrote:I don't get this widespread hostility in these forums against share bicycles. It strikes me as a perverse for of elitism. Cycling is good as long as you do it on your own bicycle that costs a month's wages. :roll:


Did you ever consider that obikes lack of action and poorly managed scheme could actually hurt the interests of cyclists?
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:12 am

Calvin27 wrote:Did you ever consider that obikes lack of action and poorly managed scheme could actually hurt the interests of cyclists?

Please elaborate more on this.

I don't see too much negatives. CoM which hounded obike out of Melbourne are one of the most pro bicycle council's in Australia. Only Neanderthals can somehow conflate poorly manage corporate ventures with Joe cyclist.

A failed retail venture doesn't mean hurt the interests of consumers in general. A failed motor company doesn't hurt the interests of motorists in general. Do you really think that obike is that influential?

The way I see it is that anything that encourages more cycling is a good thing for all cyclists. Share bikes are proven to do this. Dockless share bikes are still having teething issues but I believe there is a place in the transport landscape for them if done well.

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:25 am

human909 wrote:
Calvin27 wrote:Did you ever consider that obikes lack of action and poorly managed scheme could actually hurt the interests of cyclists?

Please elaborate more on this.

I don't see too much negatives. CoM which hounded obike out of Melbourne are one of the most pro bicycle council's in Australia. Only Neanderthals can somehow conflate poorly manage corporate ventures with Joe cyclist.


Before I answer, do you even want to have a civil conversation or would you prefer to indulge in childish name calling and labeling? otherwise I'm not going to bother.
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Thoglette
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:20 pm

Interestingly, The Guardian recently had an article (Jeff Sparrow)on how various large corporations made disposing of their waste a public problem. In essence, spending lots of money to convince us that the impact of single-use packaging was a problem of "litter bugs"
Recycling: how corporate Australia played us for mugs

Jeff Sparrow wrote:Contemporary ideas about recycling can be traced back to the embrace of single-use packaging by companies in America during the early years of the post-war economic boom. As Matt Wilkins explains in Scientific American: “Manufacturers were excited about the much higher profit margins associated with selling containers along with their products, rather than having to be in charge of recycling or cleaning and reusing them.”

This was not an innovation driven by the public. On the contrary, many ordinary Americans were aghast at the destructiveness of the new corporate practices. In Vermont in 1953, for instance, dairy farmers, angry at the rubbish suddenly appearing in their fields, agitated for laws banning disposable bottles.

To defeat the new environmental legislation, companies associated with the disposables industry (including Coca-Cola, the American Can Company and the Owens-Illinois Glass Company) launched a well-resourced non-profit group called Keep America Beautiful, devoted to shifting the blame for pollution on to individual consumers rather than disposable packaging and the companies that produced it.

“Packages don’t litter,” explained an American Can executive. “People do.”
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Ross
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Ross » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:22 pm

More staff jettisoned as cash crunch looms for loss-making Ofo
Dockless firm is shuttering markets and shedding staff in effort to stay afloat

https://www.bikebiz.com/business/ofo-on-the-ropes

human909
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby human909 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:31 am

Calvin27 wrote:Before I answer, do you even want to have a civil conversation or would you prefer to indulge in childish name calling and labeling? otherwise I'm not going to bother.

Sorry. I do prefer civil conversation.

My name calling was not at all directed towards you or any other member in this forum. It was directed toward the unnamed group that could "conflate poorly manage corporate ventures with Joe cyclist". This was said in the direct response to your suggestion that these ventures "hurt the interests of cyclists".

I'm not sure if this group even exists. But you were the one suggesting it does and I was just responding to that.

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby human909 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:35 am

Ross wrote:More staff jettisoned as cash crunch looms for loss-making Ofo
Dockless firm is shuttering markets and shedding staff in effort to stay afloat

https://www.bikebiz.com/business/ofo-on-the-ropes


The whole thing looks entirely like a financial bubble. Irrational exuberance and all that. It has been happening for centuries. It will mean plenty of capital lost and lots of pain. But it doesn't mean that the concept and product is useless. (Railways, Internet, Housing have all experienced this.)

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Calvin27 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:01 am

human909 wrote:My name calling was not at all directed towards you or any other member in this forum. It was directed toward the unnamed group that could "conflate poorly manage corporate ventures with Joe cyclist". This was said in the direct response to your suggestion that these ventures "hurt the interests of cyclists".


Yeah hardly productive though. And you have misunderstood. Specifically I said

Did you ever consider that obikes lack of action and poorly managed scheme could actually hurt the interests of cyclists?


I never said the public makes a link between a failed venture and joe cyclist. What I said is that the failed venture has repercussions for the broader cycling population. We can have a discussion about if it is good, bad or indifferent, but firstly lets agree that it does in fact have an impact on the cycling world - why else would we discuss it here?
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:12 am

Profitability will occur when the competitors have been driven out of the market. That seems to be the model that they are running under.

Personally I don't see that Sydney will be profitable for anyone in the near future with vandalism being the biggest problem
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Howzat
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Howzat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:34 am

mikesbytes wrote:Profitability will occur when the competitors have been driven out of the market. That seems to be the model that they are running under.


I think this is less to do with any long-term path to profitability and much more to do with hitting up big investors looking for a buzzword hit.

Bike share - it's the last mile, the sharing economy, web 2.0, apps, dockless, GPS, big data, and disruption all rolled into one. A ten-second elevator pitch and it's black swans as far as the eye can see.

All of this underpinned by the "insight", and operating principle, that you don't have to pay for CBD real-estate because it's free.

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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:12 am

When I was in China I saw a few bike share bikes with disc covers providing space for advertising. Though it was only a few it did exhibit there was another avenue for revenue and as you have pointed out, free usage of the CBD and that's where the advertising would be effective. In Sydney there's the odd bike permanently locked up to bike ring with adverting attached.
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Howzat
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Re: Putting the "oh no" into obikes

Postby Howzat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:22 am

...a bit like those very practical three-person "bus shelters" all over the CBD footpaths that just happen to have rolling advertising posters.

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