Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

b4igo
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:15 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby b4igo » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:36 pm

Give them a bicycle. :)

User avatar
DrShifty
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:58 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby DrShifty » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:46 am

BJL wrote:Then people should value their driver's license at little more and stop acting like morons on the roads.
...
I'll get out the popcorn! :P


I agree, people should value their license etc. But the reality is that we have repeat offenders no matter what we think they should or should not do. And the courts are the ones faced with trying to deal with it. Prison is an option, but at about $80,000 per year per inmate it diverts a lot of money away from schools and hospitals.

Enjoy the popcorn. I'm not trying to entertain you. The people who work in this area have a tough job and there is very little entertainment value in the work.

User avatar
DrShifty
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:58 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby DrShifty » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:53 am

b4igo wrote:Give them a bicycle. :)



Way back about 1970 a friend of mine was charged with drink driving. It was not his first offense and his license was suspended for a year or two. He sold his car and rode his bike everywhere.

Other mates were going on about how he was hard done by (we were all about 20 at the time) and I said they should have let him keep his license but stop him from drinking. That was like pouring petrol on a fire and everyone got stuck into me.

Obviously they all thought he was better off on the bike. :D

User avatar
DrShifty
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:58 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby DrShifty » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:22 pm

hunch wrote:Looks like the NSW government has decided life without a car is simply impossible. If what old Screwloose says is true, prison time seems the only education that might work for some -

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/plea-to-give-reformed-repeat-offenders-a-new-lease-and-licence-on-life-20180601-p4ziz7.html


This is an interesting article - although I notice that Scruby is still getting attention.

The article points out that suspending somebody's license can happen for things unrelated to driving, which was my son's experience.

He was visiting with us a few years ago and somehow licenses came up. He looked at his license and saw that it needed renewing the following day. He couldn't remember getting a reminder, so he headed to the local RMS office to renew it. They couldn't do it, telling him his license had been suspended and he'd been driving illegally. He had no idea why and they could not tell him. The computer said it was a State Debt Recovery order.

He called the Debt office and was told he had an unpaid fine for not voting in the Bathurst council election. He pointed out he hadn't lived in Bathurst for years and was registered to vote where he now lived. Apparently between leaving Bathurst and registering elsewhere they'd had a council election. He'd been missed, been fined, and been suspended from driving - for a $30 unpaid fine.

He told the person he had to drive home to work tomorrow and needed to get it sorted. She very nicely said, 'If you were to tell me your reason for not voting, such as being sick on the day, I can enter that and the fine will be cleared on the RMS system'. So he said he'd been sick on the day, she thanked him for straightening out their records, and cleared the fine. He drove back to RMS and they could now renew his license.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 5679
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby bychosis » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:35 pm

DrShifty wrote:The article points out that suspending somebody's license can happen for things unrelated to driving, which was my son's experience.

He was visiting with us a few years ago and somehow licenses came up. He looked at his license and saw that it needed renewing the following day. He couldn't remember getting a reminder, so he headed to the local RMS office to renew it. They couldn't do it, telling him his license had been suspended and he'd been driving illegally. He had no idea why and they could not tell him. The computer said it was a State Debt Recovery order.


Colleague at work had the same thing happen, only he hadn't moved house. He may have been OS or something when the election was held, or possibly even voted, but marked off incorrectly. Somehow he'd missed the reminders. Ended up he had been driving work vehicles for several weeks with a suspended licence and had no idea. Took a bit of work to sort it out too.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 5679
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby bychosis » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:45 pm

hunch wrote:Looks like the NSW government has decided life without a car is simply impossible. If what old Screwloose says is true, prison time seems the only education that might work for some -

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/plea-to-give-reformed-repeat-offenders-a-new-lease-and-licence-on-life-20180601-p4ziz7.html


Good line from one of the comments:

12000 per annum charged, 75% snub the law and continue driving? I wonder how many of these upstanding citizens demand cyclists should be licensed?
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

fat and old
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby fat and old » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:29 am

DrShifty wrote:He called the Debt office and was told he had an unpaid fine for not voting in the Bathurst council election. He pointed out he hadn't lived in Bathurst for years and was registered to vote where he now lived. Apparently between leaving Bathurst and registering elsewhere they'd had a council election. He'd been missed, been fined, and been suspended from driving - for a $30 unpaid fine.

He told the person he had to drive home to work tomorrow and needed to get it sorted. She very nicely said, 'If you were to tell me your reason for not voting, such as being sick on the day, I can enter that and the fine will be cleared on the RMS system'. So he said he'd been sick on the day, she thanked him for straightening out their records, and cleared the fine. He drove back to RMS and they could now renew his license.


OT a bit, but the being fined for not voting bizzo happens to me every second election, sometimes two or three in a row. I always vote out of my electorate, and for whatever reason it gets overlooked or something. I once sent in a dated copy of a text I'd sent to my family I had sent from the polling booth where I'd been berating the Greens spruiker for using a car (I was on my bike, and it was Nth Fitzroy) as proof that I'd voted :lol: . It's now standard practice for me to take a photo of the location or booth to keep for the upcoming notice.

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29011
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:53 pm

There is one possible way, distasteful as I find it
Every drivers license comes with a microchip implant, every car fitted with a NFC reader in the drivers door.
Car won't start without a beep and at random times when stationary requires another beep to continue

Not likely perfect and I'm sure there'd be ways of circumventing it out within a month of inception but it would be a start
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby Mububban » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:34 am

Chance after chance after chance after chance....


Image


I cringe every time I see an "E" license plate on the roads because there's a very good chance it's some deadhead like the guy above.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

User avatar
Comedian
Posts: 5479
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby Comedian » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:02 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
antigee wrote:came across this article:

https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/542 ... to-prison/

which begs the question - what can be done to prevent disqualified drivers from getting behind the wheel? - in this case was caught but simply got a further ban :(

not just worrying for cyclist but for any road user from a casual reading of the news repeat offenders and disqualified drivers or past disqualified drivers seem to more often than not feature in the deaths of other road users


Prison needs to be an option.

In another thread today I wrote that I wouldn't object to drivers who cause a death getting a massive license cancellation (like 20 years) instead of gaol; but then gaol needs to be an option for those who drive anyway.

In the case of this guy, if he's not going to prison, I hope he gets regular, unannounced checks by the police to check he's not driving. I know this is possible because this happened to someone I know who committed a much more minor (non-driving) offence. Even checking on him daily would be a fraction of the cost of putting him in prison.

It's also appalling that he is only disqualified for 6 months.

The only thing that will stop unlicenced driving is if prison isn't an option.

The problem in Australia is once someone has a licence it's basically impossible to take it off them. You can kill someone and leave them for dead and you only get banned from driving for two years. I mean Say What?

We need to make it easier for people to loose their licence so they take their responsibility seriously. We also need to ensure if they drive unlicenced that there are very very severe consequences.

Shred11
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby Shred11 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:06 pm

Mububban wrote:Chance after chance after chance after chance....


Car seized for the SIXTH time!!?? Say What?

Let’s face it: some people just should not be allowed to drive any motorised vehicle. Sometimes it’s a lack of coordination or a problem with situational awareness. Sometimes it’s attitude to risk taking.

Surely, having your car seized for a third time should mean that you’re off the road for at least five years (if it was up to me, it’d be a lifetime ban). Competent drivers can drive for 60+ years and travel a couple of million kilometers without ever having a car impounded. I can understand youthful exuberance and making a mistake once. Maybe even getting a second chance. But after a third car impounding, that should be it. Fini. The end, It’s over, You do not drive again, at all, ever. Full stop.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6098
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:22 pm

BJL wrote:
human909 wrote:Your suggestion of mandatory gaol for road deaths would seem grossly unjust for say a loving parent who accidentally reverses over their toddler. Adding goal time on top of the loss of their child is horrendous. Not to mention further tearing apart the rest of the family.


AdelaidePeter wrote:Not necessarily, if the shooting is accidental. Same for other types of accidental deaths. I'm uncomfortable with mandatory jail sentencing.


Okay, you've both made good points. Obviously there'd have to be allowances for exceptional circumstances. But not to the point where everyone gets off like the two who got off bashing a paramedic. I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong and backtrack a little.

What you are saying then is NOT mandatory sentencing.

I acknowledge the relaxed and immediate backpedalling. It is too easy for us to make the call for simple answers to whatever upsets us. usually a call to extreme penalties.

Your more reasonable deference to "allowance for exceptional circumstances" sounds to me a lot like courts sitting in judgment balancing all the complexities and NOT being constrained by mandatory penalties.

If you have a problem with the actual judgement calls made then, by all means, argue those failures on their merits.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

User avatar
jules21
Posts: 10371
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:33 pm

there are some good suggestions in this thread. my view is that sanctions should increase progressively. there isn't one single answer. get DQ'd once - standard sanctions. twice - sanctions are ramped up. eventually, maybe jail. the problem is that it seems to be like Groundhog Day with some drivers, where there stops being any higher penalties so they have nothing left to lose by re-offending.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6098
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:51 pm

jules21 wrote:there are some good suggestions in this thread. my view is that sanctions should increase progressively. there isn't one single answer. get DQ'd once - standard sanctions. twice - sanctions are ramped up. eventually, maybe jail. the problem is that it seems to be like Groundhog Day with some drivers, where there stops being any higher penalties so they have nothing left to lose by re-offending.

Yep. Groundhog day. Pretty well sums up what we see reported anyway. Even worse the same seemingly applies to Apprehended Violence Orders.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

hunch
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:06 am

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby hunch » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:36 pm

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/banned-until-2088-court-cuts-prison-sentence-for-wollongong-s-worst-driver-20180614-p4zljj.html

Old 'arold seems to be right - this bloke must be a magnet for attention to get pulled over this many times, or the coppers are much more diligent in the Gong!

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2136
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby outnabike » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:01 am

I reckon you have to be fair about it.
A dog that bites a sheep gets retrained. If that doesn't work and he keeps biting other animals he gets chained to his Kennel.

If that doesn't work the chain gets up graded in weight and he doesn't get to go out with the pack.
Further indiscretions require the dog to be re balanced ie, a small lead weight is attached to the rear of his head, beside his ear.

You see, the fact that the dog has a litter of puppies that will have no dad has to be balanced against your own family being wiped out by an uncaring un-remorseful idiot.
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

BJL
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Repeat offenders - driving whilst disqualified....how to fix?

Postby BJL » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:48 am

outnabike wrote:I reckon you have to be fair about it.
A dog that bites a sheep gets retrained. If that doesn't work and he keeps biting other animals he gets chained to his Kennel.

If that doesn't work the chain gets up graded in weight and he doesn't get to go out with the pack.
Further indiscretions require the dog to be re balanced ie, a small lead weight is attached to the rear of his head, beside his ear.

You see, the fact that the dog has a litter of puppies that will have no dad has to be balanced against your own family being wiped out by an uncaring un-remorseful idiot.


A dog that bites a human though, gets put down. So they won't do it again. 'Too dangerous to be left alive'. Isn't that what they say?

Few people care about the litter of puppies that will have to do without dad for a few weeks until they're old enough to be sent to a pet shop. Or dumped and end up dead or in an animal shelter where they'll probably be put down after a few weeks anyway. :cry:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users