User pay per km

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Cheesewheel
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Re: User pay per km

Postby Cheesewheel » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:10 pm

I have been drifting in and out of this thread so I dont know if this has already been brought up

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 543c60af1c

A PLAN to radically change the way motorists pay for using the road, which could cost drivers more than $8bn a year, has failed in other countries and could fail in Australia, experts have warned.

......interesting that the extra cost of having a car in London simply saw them reemerge after everyone got socialized around the expense.
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bychosis
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Re: User pay per km

Postby bychosis » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:27 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:......interesting that the extra cost of having a car in London simply saw them reemerge after everyone got socialized around the expense.

It is interesting. Every time fuel prices go up, there are cries of despair as people pretend they will do away with the car. then, sure enough they get used to it and keep on driving with minimal changes. It doesn’t help that fuel consumption is falling in conjunction with the price rises though.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

fat and old
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Re: User pay per km

Postby fat and old » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:01 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:I have been drifting in and out of this thread so I dont know if this has already been brought up

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 543c60af1c

A PLAN to radically change the way motorists pay for using the road, which could cost drivers more than $8bn a year, has failed in other countries and could fail in Australia, experts have warned.

......interesting that the extra cost of having a car in London simply saw them reemerge after everyone got socialized around the expense.


As opposed to us cheapskate Melburnians.....when the 60 cent toll was removed from the Westgate Bridge the numbers went up like 1,000% or some such ridiculous figure :lol:

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Nate
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Re: User pay per km

Postby Nate » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:15 pm

march83 wrote:Can you link the paper, or discussion of?


no - it was around 2013, a senior economics guy from one of the big UNI's here in NSW.
all around the fuss with the sydney cycling paths

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Thoglette
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Re: User pay per km

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:36 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:the way motorists pay for using the road

Somewhere I have a wonderful quotation from W. Churchill arguing against a road tax. On the grounds that it would promote this fallacious attitude: that motorists pay for the road.

I'd much rather have less road, and particularly less high speed road in urban areas than try to have motorist "pay for the road".

There's another reason for this beyond reenforcing the meme that "we pay for the road, get the foxtrot off it". Basically, no matter how much we build, there will never be enough road. Houston is my poster child (see photo below, attached to a plea to solve congestion by building more roads).
Image(From Houston Culture)

And ultimately, having a large percentage of the population commute long distances as drivers indicates a failure in city planning.
If one must move lots of people long distances, trains are massively more efficient and far more effective. E.g. on a proper train, I can actually work. Or read. Or something. You can't (safely) if driving a car - it's dead time. Especially if coupled with bicycles for the last mile. Try parking this many cars!

ImageGrease-Lighnin blog

Plus there's a certain je ne sais quo to the demand that we should commute by car that Ross Zurowski captures rather well.
ImageAre.na
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biker jk
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Re: User pay per km

Postby biker jk » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:55 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:
......interesting that the extra cost of having a car in London simply saw them reemerge after everyone got socialized around the expense.


Not quite. The increase was in the taxi and private hire vehicle category (largely Uber) who are exempt from the congestion charge. The number of private cars entering the congestion zone fell by 39% between 2002 and 2014.

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Thoglette
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Meanwhile, in Singapore, this is old news

Postby Thoglette » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:20 pm

Meanwhile, Singapore is going to replace their current tollway based fee system with a GPS based system (LTA.sg webpage) This will replace their current set of 93 traffic measurement points.

Oh, and they have a limit on the number of vehicles on their roads. You want to drive the car? You need to bid for entitlement
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familyguy
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Re: User pay per km

Postby familyguy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:34 am

The Singapore system is the one I use when people rant about bike rego here. Sure, it would never fly here, we've got the space, after all, right? 8)

Aren't WestConnex using a flagfall plus per km charging system for their tolls?

g-boaf
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Re: Meanwhile, in Singapore, this is old news

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:16 am

Thoglette wrote:Meanwhile, Singapore is going to replace their current tollway based fee system with a GPS based system (LTA.sg webpage) This will replace their current set of 93 traffic measurement points.

Oh, and they have a limit on the number of vehicles on their roads. You want to drive the car? You need to bid for entitlement


Oh, if you have a Zonda Cinque 1 of 5 I'm sure you'll get that certificate. Same for a lesser Ferrari, Lamborghini or something else. If those things can get such an entitlement, anything else probably can.

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Thoglette
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Re: Meanwhile, in Singapore, this is old news

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:21 pm

g-boaf wrote: If those things can get such an entitlement, anything else probably can.

It's an auction. So the question when you buy one of those things is: how much change have you got left over ?
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jules21
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Re: User pay per km

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:14 pm

we'll get a new road user charging system. it won't necessarily by per km travelled, but we will get one.

how do I know? because the current one is short-changing treasury. if you ever needed to be convinced that govt will act, that's all you need. it's a lock-in.

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