Follow-up reporting on road deaths

AdelaidePeter
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Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:29 pm

Does anyone know the protocol / convention for reporting convictions related to road deaths, in Australia? (I mean in general, not just cyclist deaths).

It seems to me that a small number go to court with a serious charge, and get relatively widespread media coverage. Every other one seems to sink without a trace. In particular, it seems the public never hears when it has been resolved that no charges are to be laid, or when minor charges are laid. Is this information just not released? And is there a reason?

p.s. Come to think of it, it's pretty well the same with workplace deaths.

human909
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby human909 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:14 pm

I would expect that all the deaths would have coronial inquests and reports. Workplace and road deaths.
Recommendations often come out of that, but that doesn't mean police and politicians listen or act.
EDIT: looks like road deaths don't automatically get coronial inquestions.
I googled the James Cross case for a bit more background:


https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 1z438.html

"Dr Cross said had he and his wife not pushed for a coronial inquest, their son's death would have been recorded that he crashed into traffic after he “came from nowhere”."

"James Cross's parents are dismayed that the car driver responsible for their son's death was never formally interviewed by police and never apologised."

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find_bruce
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby find_bruce » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:02 pm

Yes there should be a report for the coroner, but as the case of James Cross refered to by h909 demonstrates that may not include anything useful.

It is normally done prior to the criminal charges so is unlikely to contain those outcomes. Sadly you are correct that many sink without a trace.

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Tequestra
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby Tequestra » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:03 pm



THREE DEMERIT POINTS? :x

I am so angry!

I remember the one time I ever opened the door on my ute to do a job at the Parmeila Hilton in the centre of Perth and would have cleaned up a cyclist if he hadn't been lucky to swerve out the way to avoid my sudden door in his way. I still remember exactly how overcast the sky was that day just after midday in 1994. He survived and I never saw him again, but every time I reach for the door-handle when parked at the side of the road, that overcast sky in the picture in my mind comes back to haunt me. I wish I could post the print the photo I see in my mind, not just here, but on every school kid's bloody desk at their primary school.

This is why I firmly believe now that the one-metre distance passing law that has just been gifted to Western Australian cyclists last Christmas not only applies to cars passing bikes, but to bikes passing parked cars. I will write this on a piece of paper and keep it in my cargo box, so that if anyone runs into the back of me and 'knocks me off' because I am riding 1m away from parked cars, then the 'first-responders' will find my note and tell the killer why I was riding on that vector.

I am so angry! Three demerit points for killing an Australian citizen! Excuse my french but FFS!
Viva le Tour Electrique' !!!

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks for the feedback so far, but I was not asking about the (in)action of the police and courts - though of course that is a very important issue - but the (in)action of the media (including police media units). After all, one of the jobs of the media is to report on legal proceedings. And then, ideally, an informed public can decide whether laws are working correctly.

So when charges are dropped, as they often are, does the media then report on it? After all, if the original death is newsworthy, so is the legal outcome. Or is there a reason not to report, e.g. privacy laws?

p.s. Ironically, one of the case I was thinking of actually did pop up in the news last week, I've just discovered. See my post here viewtopic.php?f=53&t=93495&p=1451380#p1451380 So maybe I've got to (groan) buy the local rag instead of just skim the headlines.

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Tequestra
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby Tequestra » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:16 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:So when charges are dropped, as they often are, does the media then report on it?

I wonder why 'the media' (MSM) are not reporting on the end of the war in Syria now that the celebrations have begun. Hint: The USA lost.

The media's primary job is to soothe the citizens and make them believe that everything is fine in their world. Perhaps the commercial media are more able to be honest about the realities, but I don't like those commercials they use to fund themselves because they only encourage me to spend less money on my bike. I only watch the taxpayer-funded media on tv, so I have to get my reality news from more reliable sources on the web. My eldest son's birthday is October 22nd. What a coincidence.
Viva le Tour Electrique' !!!

Scintilla
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby Scintilla » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:23 pm


human909
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby human909 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:25 am

Tequestra wrote:


THREE DEMERIT POINTS? :x

I am so angry!

I am so angry! Three demerit points for killing an Australian citizen! Excuse my french but FFS!


If that makes you angry in the case of James Cross. There was nothing. The constable was specifically by her senior officer not to pursue ANY charges.

In a much publicised follow up situation after 'harsh' rules were put in place. The lady got $1000 fine for killing a cyclist, the maximum was $1500. Which always makes me wonder how many cyclists do you need to kill to get the maximum penalty. :|

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antigee
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby antigee » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:06 am

AdelaidePeter wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far, but I was not asking about the (in)action of the police and courts - though of course that is a very important issue - but the (in)action of the media (including police media units). After all, one of the jobs of the media is to report on legal proceedings. And then, ideally, an informed public can decide whether laws are working correctly.

So when charges are dropped, as they often are, does the media then report on it? After all, if the original death is newsworthy, so is the legal outcome. Or is there a reason not to report, e.g. privacy laws?.........



think media is highly selective in what is reported because essentially they are either commercial businesses intent on maximising advertising revenue or government funded media that think it has to look like it is competing with commercial media and mimics their actions - don't have the figures but get impression once you move out of politics, sport, entertainment and business related news the content is mostly sourced from a handful or agencies not the media's own reporters - back when I was a youth I recall reading articles that carried the byline "by our court reporter" and I'm pretty sure that it was a normal part of any young journalists apprenticeship to spend a few years covering whatever went thru the local courts with their sub editors deciding what actually got published - think now deaths or serious injury have to have some so called "public interest" element or more likely they pass the "man bites dog" test of being newsworthy because are out of the norm to get an agency journalist to attend and write up.....

"The journalists’ union, the MEAA, says that since 2011, more than 2,000 jobs have been lost in Australian media, or around a quarter of our journalists. That’s just the redundancies the union can keep track of – it’s not including people who have resigned and have not been replaced. At Fairfax alone, the union calculates that 474 journalists have been made redundant just at the city mastheads to date; there have been hundreds more at regional and suburban papers and elsewhere."

source https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... to-save-it

as to the impact of this on public interest in following up specific cases could put an argument forward that in the interests of "open government" and justice then with the technology that is available then documents like police incident reports, crash investigations, worksafe investigations, court proceedings records and documentary evidence could be available to be searched on line - there would be privacy issues but if the will was there then again suspect technology has relatively cheap answers....think point is the press (or media) no longer hold public bodies to account so can the public without access to information?

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familyguy
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby familyguy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:26 am

AdelaidePeter wrote:Does anyone know the protocol / convention for reporting convictions related to road deaths, in Australia? (I mean in general, not just cyclist deaths).

It seems to me that a small number go to court with a serious charge, and get relatively widespread media coverage. Every other one seems to sink without a trace. In particular, it seems the public never hears when it has been resolved that no charges are to be laid, or when minor charges are laid. Is this information just not released? And is there a reason?

p.s. Come to think of it, it's pretty well the same with workplace deaths.



antigee wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far, but I was not asking about the (in)action of the police and courts - though of course that is a very important issue - but the (in)action of the media (including police media units). After all, one of the jobs of the media is to report on legal proceedings. And then, ideally, an informed public can decide whether laws are working correctly.

So when charges are dropped, as they often are, does the media then report on it? After all, if the original death is newsworthy, so is the legal outcome. Or is there a reason not to report, e.g. privacy laws?.........



think media is highly selective in what is reported because essentially they are either commercial businesses intent on maximising advertising revenue or government funded media that think it has to look like it is competing with commercial media and mimics their actions - don't have the figures but get impression once you move out of politics, sport, entertainment and business related news the content is mostly sourced from a handful or agencies not the media's own reporters - back when I was a youth I recall reading articles that carried the byline "by our court reporter" and I'm pretty sure that it was a normal part of any young journalists apprenticeship to spend a few years covering whatever went thru the local courts with their sub editors deciding what actually got published - think now deaths or serious injury have to have some so called "public interest" element or more likely they pass the "man bites dog" test of being newsworthy because are out of the norm to get an agency journalist to attend and write up.....


I am coming to somewhat of a belief that in Australia, if you're kiled by a car whilst not in a car yourself (that's the key part) that you're not considered a victim, unless it can be categorically proven otherwise. The victim blaming is growing daily, whether pedestrians or riders (of powered or non-powered conveyance). The more I see of other countries the more we have become a society ruled by 'vehicles that can do no wrong in many eyes'.

Jim

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Tequestra
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby Tequestra » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:19 pm

human909 wrote:In a much publicised follow up situation after 'harsh' rules were put in place. The lady got $1000 fine for killing a cyclist, the maximum was $1500. Which always makes me wonder how many cyclists do you need to kill to get the maximum penalty. :|

Hello again Mr Human and thanks for your reply. I suppose on having calmed down a bit and thought more carefully about it, that car-dooring is not so much a driving offence, per se', because passengers in taxis have been reported to do it as well. They may have no demerit points to lose, so it is not really a matter of demerit points as I complained about yesterday. It's just plain old manslaughter. $1,500 maximum fine eh? Life is cheap thesedays.

I think there needs to be a major rethink about behaviours that cause deaths on our roads. The media have proven their power to convince the general public to support various minority groups in recent years. This has trickled down to the legislation eventually in some areas. It is up to the media to change peoples' attitudes towards cyclist killers, and I suppose it is up to people like us to change the media's attitude. I hope that I might help undo my damage yesterday and bring Peter's thread back on topic again.
Viva le Tour Electrique' !!!

hunch
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby hunch » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:42 pm

I've often wondered what happened with Dr Sueke crushed by a dog trailer on New South Head Rd. Should have been some sort of inquest/result by now after 3(?) years surely? Last heard the police were appealing for witnesses a few days after the incident, but fear it's a case of dead men tell no tales.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 am

hunch wrote:I've often wondered what happened with Dr Sueke crushed by a dog trailer on New South Head Rd. Should have been some sort of inquest/result by now after 3(?) years surely? Last heard the police were appealing for witnesses a few days after the incident, but fear it's a case of dead men tell no tales.


The most recent news item I can find is from 2017 https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newsl ... eee95fc7ea .

A spokesman for the police wrote:A spokesman for the police said the matter has been referred to the Coroner.

“But as always, we encourage anyone with information who has not yet spoken to police to come forward,” he said.

“No charges have been laid at this stage.”

He would not say how many witnesses police had interviewed or release any findings from the crash investigation unit.


That last sentence is frustrating. The news article is nearly 2 years after the crash and no findings released. Do the findings ever get released?

human909
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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby human909 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:20 am

AdelaidePeter wrote:That last sentence is frustrating. The news article is nearly 2 years after the crash and no findings released. Do the findings ever get released?

Not to my knowledge. FOI could get it but I suspect it would be blocked by the police for privacy of those involved and general police ass covering reasons.

Coronial report I believe are publicly available, (I would expect them to be as that is the point). However as discussed coroners have seemed to have given up running inquests on the MANY road deaths.

(Such reports can often take a long time to be released. I'm waiting on a coronial report from NZ that is over 2 years ago. The information is freely available once it is complete.)

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Re: Follow-up reporting on road deaths

Postby find_bruce » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:18 pm

human909 wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:That last sentence is frustrating. The news article is nearly 2 years after the crash and no findings released. Do the findings ever get released?

Not to my knowledge. FOI could get it but I suspect it would be blocked by the police for privacy of those involved and general police ass covering reasons.

Coronial report I believe are publicly available, (I would expect them to be as that is the point). However as discussed coroners have seemed to have given up running inquests on the MANY road deaths.

(Such reports can often take a long time to be released. I'm waiting on a coronial report from NZ that is over 2 years ago. The information is freely available once it is complete.)

In NSW coroners reports are available from 2012 here. As far as I can tell, only 1 in that time has involved a bicycle - James Ciappara who was riding a bike modified with a petrol engine.

I can't find anything about Dr Sueke

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