Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

BugsBunny
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Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby BugsBunny » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:05 pm

I'm on day 3 and I'm feeling pretty good. I've been fasting 16-17 hours and eating in the 7-8 hour block. Just wondering what's the best way to include cycling activities. I'm wondering if they should be shorter sessions at mild intensity with a low calorie burn, or should they be super short HIIT type sessions. My other worries is if I cycle in the morning too hard, then I wont be able to last the 16 hour fasting phase without going into major hunger pangs.

Bugs
Last edited by BugsBunny on Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

march83
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Re: Anyone cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby march83 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:53 pm

I did for a year or so. To put it delicately, it was not ideal. I was doing 16hrs fasted per day and eating <50g carbs.

If you want to ride for the purposes of burning calories then ride long and slow. There is no way to ride fast after you have depleted your glycogen properly and in the initial weeks your body will struggle to deal with the change and you are likely to hunger flat in new, interesting and ultimately horrible ways. Once you have the metabolic flexibility and the pacing down pat you should be able to do easy multi-hour rides without food and without impacting on your fasts.

Intensity is simply not possible. I tried to ride a season of track racing while on keto and I would finish one race and then be practically unable to pedal in the next one. My power numbers were disgraceful. I "doped" with Hammer and gummi bears for 1 meet and added like 20% to my power numbers and had repeatability...

Over the long term I developed a massive dependency on caffeine just to get through the day, horrible anxiety and a borderline binge eating disorder (that still rears its head from time to time when I'm stressed). My already low metabolism plummeted, my t3 and t4 numbers were not good, nor was my cholesterol. My FTP circled the drain.

I have to ask: why are you doing this? I tried really hard to make it work for cycling and it provided basically no benefits but many downsides. The only 2 positives I took away from the experience were that learnt I don't need to eat as much for breakfast as I thought I did and it exposed me to a bunch of new meals and styles of cooking that I may not have otherwise adopted.

Conversely, if you're looking for something that does actually work for the purposes of weight loss, superior recovery, more power and speed then ditch the animal products as best you can and look no further than wholefood plant based. A properly designed WFPB diet is the only diet I've found that allows me to maintain a healthy weight, 12-15hr training week and a threshold around 400W.
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g-boaf
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Re: Anyone cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:15 pm

BugsBunny wrote:I'm on day 3 and I'm feeling pretty good. I've been fasting 16-17 hours and eating in the 7-8 hour block. Just wondering what's the best way to include cycling activities. I'm wondering if they should be shorter sessions at mild intensity with a low calorie burn, or should they be super short HIIT type sessions. My other worries is if I cycle in the morning too hard, then I wont be able to last the 16 hour fasting phase without going into major hunger pangs.

Bugs



Listen to the above. I haven't ever done fasting, but I just try to eat well - stay away from rubbish food and ride more. Just gradually the kilos go away. Not very quickly, but enough to make a difference and without the risks of raiding the fridge or binge eating chocolates (which I've been guilty of doing - as I just love chocolate).

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Nate
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby Nate » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:36 pm

I did 1 day of fasting a week (2/5 type of thing)... hit me pretty hard.

I'd skip dinner on sunday & then dinner on monday was teh next meal.
1-1.5hrs gym monday morn - that was OK
1hr bike ride to work - struggle
every ride that week was then painful & slow... took me out for days... but that was 1.5hrs of gym & 2hrs of cycling on stores :/

Whats your goal?
HIIE/T is really showing up well for many benefits, as does intermittent fasting.

HIIE - look for a meta analysis & research by Boudou. Looking for reduction of visceral fat vs subcutaneous.
There was also a recently publication around impact of HIIE at a cellular level, causing cells to effectively reverse aging.

Fasting didnt suit me too much, 2-5hrs of exercise a day - just couldnt fit it in.
But i felt awesome when i did fast, so alert & aware through the day. Will get back onto it with my new schedule.

Calvin27
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:01 pm

I'm not really a diet or fasting type, but have basically been fasting my whole life (I skip brekky and stopped eating late dinners).

For recreational or commuting I can ride on empty stomach for about an hour before I start bonking. Sometimes I can do 1.5 hr mountain bike loops but noticeably lower on power for some of the harder technical climbs. On a road bike it's worse, just a general lingering tiredness. For training stuff I make sure to fuel up beforehand. It doesn't really affect the performance at short intervals (unless repeated for longer durations over half an hour) but afterwards the body feels like a wreck and headaches are not uncommon.
Fast light bike
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BugsBunny
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby BugsBunny » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:01 pm

Thanks guys.

My motivation is to finally get rid of my roll of belly fat. :-)

I've tried to eat a very balanced diet - following the commonly held diet / nutrition models of: meat and non-proteins, fruit/veg, moderate carbs etc. Cutting out snacks etc etc. I've been doing this for many years. But nothing rids the belly roll.

I'm in decent shape - mid 40s, 170cm, 64kg, 14% BF (I know about the limitations of bio impedance scales).

What got me thinking about IF/keto is when I started training/rides in the morning on an empty stomach. I was always led to believe that you should have a meal with some carbs so you have sufficient energy. But strangely, I could ride equally as long and if not longer without getting hungry when I rode fasted. This just led me to think that the body somehow adapts to a different energy source - ie. fats to source energy.

Frankly the 16-17 hour fasts have been much easier than I expected (and no BS), there is already an obvious reduction on the waistline :-)

Bugs

march83
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby march83 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:25 pm

BugsBunny wrote:I've tried to eat a very balanced diet - following the commonly held diet / nutrition models of: meat and non-proteins, fruit/veg, moderate carbs etc. Cutting out snacks etc etc. I've been doing this for many years. But nothing rids the belly roll.


Have you tried excluding animal products entirely? I had similarly tried everything: calorie counting -> lots of fruit and lots of exercise -> keto -> intermittent fasting -> paleo -> paleo + complex carbs -> no dairy -> pescatarian -> vegetarian... some of them made a small dent but none "worked". WFPB is the only thing that actually worked for me.
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BugsBunny
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby BugsBunny » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Thanks March. No I haven't tried an animal free diet. And I'm not against it at all. Both my parents have been strict vegetarian for over 20 years. :-) But strangely, my dad is lean and trim, and my mum is obese. Granted my dad still works a physical job (70+ years old) and my mum doesn't exercise much at all.

jaythefordman
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby jaythefordman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:02 pm

I've done the 2/5 intermittent fasting, and found its a good thing to adopt, bloody hard though if you are incorporating hard exercise. I've since moved on to time limited eating, where all food is eaten in a 9-13 hour window. There's some solid science behind it, and its very easy to adopt into normal life, ive found it so much easier to live with and ride etc. Dropped 10Kg, and its staying off, and feeling hell healthier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW7g_KD52PA

BugsBunny
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby BugsBunny » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 pm

jaythefordman wrote:I've done the 2/5 intermittent fasting, and found its a good thing to adopt, bloody hard though if you are incorporating hard exercise. I've since moved on to time limited eating, where all food is eaten in a 9-13 hour window. There's some solid science behind it, and its very easy to adopt into normal life, ive found it so much easier to live with and ride etc. Dropped 10Kg, and its staying off, and feeling hell healthier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW7g_KD52PA


Time limited fasting is what I'm trying out now. I'm doing the 16 hour fast, then 8 hour window of eating. I would think the 2/5 fasting would be much much harder to do. I've been able to hit 17 hours of fasting without much trouble, but a full 24 hours I reckon would drive me over the edge of starvation! :-)

ball bearing
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby ball bearing » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:55 pm


Newcastle Dave
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby Newcastle Dave » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:38 pm

I do the 5 - 2 thing (well, Most of the time, not when I am travelling for work)

I am not sold on the benefits of the fasting as such but it does restrict my total calorie intake and force at least two alcohol free days per week. While on this diet I did initially drop from 105 to 95 kg (still overweight, just this side of obese for 182 cm tall)

When I first started, I was riding to/from work, approx. 23 km each way, 3 or 4 times a week. Most of this was off road (Fernleigh track) so speed/time differences are not overly effected by traffic or other factors, just how hard I pedaled.

I am a bit of a stats geek, and kept times for both the overall ride to work and the 4.1 km incline segment (Redhead to Whitebridge) along with if the ride was a fasting day, the day after a fasting day, or another day.

There was NO statistical correlation between my times and my eating pattern. My average time for the ride was around 46 minutes, with a standard deviation of less than 2 minutes. When I filtered by fasting, day after etc the differences was in seconds.

One thing I did notice, when riding home at 5:30 - 6:00 pm after having very little to eat all day, was the cooking smells, god those sausage and onions smelled good. Not to mention the ride to work without eating when I could smell the bakery, especially before Easter when they were churning out hot cross buns - mmmmmm

kenwstr
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Re: Any cyclists here on a Keto and intermittent fasting diet?

Postby kenwstr » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:09 pm

I am not specifically on Keto but it may look pretty much like it. Some years ago I experienced a very profound change in my digestion and could not process much at all. Medicos were no help really but I basically self administered an elimination diet to discover what I could and couldn't process and did a lot of research on line as what the doctors said didn't match what I actually experienced. Basically I ended up on a very low starch (it isn't as simple as FODMAPS), high protein and fats diet. So while it may look like Keto, it was derived through trial and error for what worked for me, not any fad diet theory. I do include fasting as determined by my body, not a calendar. One of principles now is only eat when actually hungry. This may be 0 - 2 meals on any one day and at whatever time my body is ready for food, browsing or snacking doesn't work for me. As I have no grain based foods at all, my sugar intake is vastly reduced so I don't feel a need to stint on this with coffee etc. I do have some chocolate (coco butter) just for extra energy. I started doing that during the worst time to get through fainting spells but I have vastly improved over the last few years and probably don't need it now. I took up cycling because, looking back I can see my periods of best health are also the periods of greatest physical fitness. So basically I cycle for health. I do not race except one sportive per year to provide a training goal. In the last one I did, I got 5th out of 49 for my age range (60-65). My perspective on fat burning is the body adapts to become more efficient at it over time. It may not provide the peak output associated with carb diets but is certainly provides the endurance. If you are preparing for an event, the bulk of energy for that comes from stored glycogen. I don't think it matters whether that comes from carbs or from fat, just so long as your tank is full on race day. The problem is that if you are dieting to lose weight, you will not be storing much glycogen and will be prone to energy deficit and so fail to perform well. In this case, a carb fix will definitely give an blood sugar energy boost. Also, if you have lost body mass, you will have less capacity to store glycogen so less energy available. In compensation, you will have less weight so will need less energy to attain the same performance. When you diet to lose fat, it is important to exercise to retain muscle mass, otherwise you will lose both muscle and fat equally, leading to an emaciated state of neither power nor capacity (mass) to store energy (glycogen).

In preparation for an event, you must eat well to fuel conversion to glycogen, you must taper off exercise to avoid burning off the glycogen so you will have an excess to store in your tissues. In other word, this is how you fill your fuel tank. You can get a little extra ready for race day from what is in your gut but this is far less than glycogen stored in tissues. There is no doubt that carbs are converted to blood sugar much more easily and with less load on the body than protein and fat. So, it's up to you to decide if it's OK to break the Keto diet for that one day and maybe have some oats for breakfast and a banana about 30 min before the start.

I am just a regular person trying to work it out for myself.
It is very likely I am mistaken on some of this.

Regards,
Ken

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