Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

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Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby biker jk » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:53 pm

Better than no change I suppose, but why not up to 18?

Teenagers up to the age of 16 will be able to ride their bicycles on footpaths under a NSW Government change to the Road Transport Act.

Previously, children had to start riding on the road at the age of 12, although adults accompanying children were exempt.

The change has been welcomed by Bicycle NSW, but the cycling advocacy group said it was disappointing the Government had not agreed to people of any age being allowed to share footpaths with pedestrians.

"Bicycle NSW sees cycling on the footpath as a bridge to proper cycling infrastructure," Chief Executive Alistair Ferguson said.

He said in the city of Sydney, which has been building separate cycle paths, there had been a big increase in people riding.

Mr Ferguson acknowledged more people sharing footpaths was not without its problems.

"There's always going to be those dangers to pedestrians," he said.

"There'll have to be a transition period, alongside an awareness campaign [for cyclists]."

Liberal Member for Coogee, Bruce Notley-Smith, has also been campaigning for change.

Mr Notley-Smith declined to comment today, but in a video on social media said: "The busy traffic of a congested city is no place for a child to ride their bike."

In May he introduced a motion to Parliament stating "numerous studies have concluded that parents would be much more willing to allow their children to cycle if they were permitted to ride on the footpath".

It added: "Statistical evidence compiled in other Australian states and overseas dispels beliefs or perceptions that pedestrians are at a significantly greater risk of injury from bicycle/pedestrian collisions if minors are permitted to ride on footpaths."

Mr Notley-Smith wanted the age increased to cyclists under 18 years.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-20/nsw-government-changes-bike-laws-so-children-can-ride-on-path/10018102

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby diggler » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:13 pm

Yes better than nothing although ideally it should be anyone can ride on footpaths. Unfortunately there are no votes for this.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby bychosis » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:47 pm

Agree. Should be all ages, but it's a start. I guess they think that 16yo can get a driving permit so should know the road rules and therefore be on the roads.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby fishwop » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:42 am

It's already happening in my area. People of all ages ride on the footpath, myself included in some places, and significant numbers don't wear helmets, especially kids. The laws aren't enforced. This demonstrates that if the public at large thinks the law is bad, they don't obey it.

It will not surprise if this change is accompanied by a blitz on riding on footpaths by those over 16.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Warin » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:11 am

diggler wrote:Yes better than nothing although ideally it should be anyone can ride on footpaths. Unfortunately there are no votes for this.


It was not 'nothing' but IIRC children under 12 or accompanying adults..
I'd think the new one would also allow accompanying adults too.
So if you want to ride on the foot path .. take a kid with you? :D

---------- edit ..
It is in the first post .. under 12 ... so now allow 4 more years of riding on the footpath.
Humm at 17 they start to drive. :?

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Tamiya » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Warin wrote:It was not 'nothing' but IIRC children under 12 or accompanying adults..
I'd think the new one would also allow accompanying adults too.
So if you want to ride on the foot path .. take a kid with you? :D


Changing to 16 vs 18 still leaves a traphole... eg a 17yo hasn't attained legal adulthood so isn't legally allowed to accompany his/her younger siblings on footpath.

Hole used to be 13-17yo, which covered most high school kids "not" (their excuse :| ) being able to help fetch their siblings from primary school.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:42 pm

I think you need to be 16 to be in charge of a minor. Under the previous law where was no situation where 12 - 15 year olds could ride in the footpath (unless the footpath was designated shared path). Under the previous law if you rode as a family group the situation could arise that everyone could ride on the footpath except the 13 year old who rode on the road while their parents and younger siblings rode on the footpath.

Anyway its a step in the right direction and follows on from disabled people being permitted to ride on the footpath. Next step is to let seniors onto the footpath followed by everyone else.

For those out there (such as Scully) who argue it isn't safe, your more likely to die by being struck by lightening than to die by being stuck by a bike
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby find_bruce » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:59 pm

Current NSW law is
250 Riding on a footpath or shared path
(1) The rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older must not ride on a footpath unless:
(a) if the rider is an adult—the rider is accompanying a child under 12 years of age who is riding on the footpath and the child is under the rider’s supervision, or
(b) if the rider is not an adult—the rider is accompanying a child under 12 years of age who is riding on the footpath under the supervision of an adult and the rider is also under the supervision of the adult

What I expect to change is simply change 12 to 16. What it means is that 16yo riders can ride on their own, but 17 yo riders cannot "supervise" other children, but can ride with the rest of the family.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:46 pm

That's better than I understood, thanks for clarifying
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Law change gives green light for teenagers to ride on footpaths

Postby opik_bidin » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:20 pm

Good start, hope it will be all ages in near future, troubling comment from TfNSW that it can " "significantly increase congestion", shouldn't congestion be less as more kids cycle to school rather than being driven?

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/law ... 4zsl2.html

As students return from the winter holidays, teenagers will no longer have to navigate traffic on busy roads while riding their bikes to school.

Children aged up to 16-years-old are now legally allowed to ride on footpaths, after the NSW government overhauled regulations that forced children off footpaths and onto roads once they turned 12-years-old.

The change means that 13-year-old Zach Saad can ride on the footpaths of Coogee, in Sydney’s eastern suburbs, without risking his life or being fined $112.
Zack Saad, 13, and his 12-year-old friend Finn Wilkie can now ride together on the footpath

Zack Saad, 13, and his 12-year-old friend Finn Wilkie can now ride together on the footpath
Photo: Steven Siewert

“Zach would be a hazard to himself and others if he were to ride on the road by himself. Teens don't learn the road rules until they study for their L's, at the very youngest, at 16,” Rebecca Saad, Zach’s mum, said.

“The level of assertiveness and aggression that is needed to hold a steady path as a Sydney bike rider on the roads is not something a 13-16-year-old can do."
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Despite the change, NSW and Victoria remain the only states that do not allow all-age cycling on footpaths.

Coogee MP Bruce Notley-Smith, a Liberal, campaigned internally for the reform and lobbied ministers for the age limit to be lifted to 18-years-old.

“It’s so illogical to be forcing children on to Sydney’s congested roads,” said Mr Notley-Smith.

He welcomed the new regulations, which came into effect on Friday, but said he would continue to push for the restrictions to be relaxed further to include adults “in certain circumstances".

Under the current changes, only adults supervising children under 16 years are also permitted to use footpaths.

Mr Notley-Smith took up the issue after one of his constituents, Callum Gordon, started an online petition which quickly gathered thousands of signatures.

With Mr Gordon’s help, Mr Notley-Smith created a video to promote their campaign for the regulatory change, which was viewed over 30,000 times

“The support was overwhelming,” Mr Notley-Smith said. "I knew that we would get the support, I just had to demonstrate it to the minister.”

Mr Gordon said he was really pleased that his daughter Macy, who turned 12 in April, would no longer be breaking the law when she cycles to school on the footpath this week.

"I am aware the police would never have charged her but it sent a really strong anti-cycling message to people and actively discouraged our children forming a healthy habit," he said.

Roads Minister Melinda Pavey said the government agreed raise the age limit to 16 to help keep children safe "until they are better equipped to deal with riskier road environments”.

In the five years to 2017, two children under 16 were killed while cycling on NSW roads and 1,770 were seriously injured.

A nine-year-old boy was killed while crossing at a set of traffic lights in Blacktown in 2013, and a seven-year-old boy was killed at The Ponds, in north west Sydney, in 2014 after a car failed to stop at a give way sign.

Bicycle NSW, the state's peak cycling advocacy group, said it was disappointed the NSW government had not embraced a policy of all-aged cycling on footpaths.

"Footpaths should be open to everyone," Alistair Ferguson, executive officer of Bicycle NSW said.

"While this will see children able to ride safer for longer, it does not cater for the newer and less confident riders."

A spokesman for Transport for NSW said lifting the age restriction entirely could "significantly increase congestion" and the likelihood of crashes between cyclists and pedestrians.

"There is a risk of injury to a pedestrian if hit by an adult rider, as adults typically travel at higher speeds and are heavier, increasing stopping distance and the force of impact in the event of a crash," the spokesman said.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby diggler » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:22 pm

If they simply change 12 to 16, then it is 16 years old or older must not ride on a footpath i.e. if you are 15 you can ride on the footpath, but not on your 16th birthday.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:42 pm

diggler wrote:If they simply change 12 to 16, then it is 16 years old or older must not ride on a footpath i.e. if you are 15 you can ride on the footpath, but not on your 16th birthday.


The day you turn 16, you are obviously so much more experienced at riding on the road than the day before, right? Never knew that was possible.

Sarcasm alert of course.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Ancientflatulence » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:20 pm

biker jk wrote:Better than no change I suppose, but why not up to 18?

It added: "Statistical evidence compiled in other Australian states and overseas dispels beliefs or perceptions that pedestrians are at a significantly greater risk of injury from bicycle/pedestrian collisions if minors are permitted to ride on footpaths."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-20/nsw-government-changes-bike-laws-so-children-can-ride-on-path/10018102


The researchers have obviously never seen the groups of 8 to 14 year olds who ride their bikes flat out down my town's main street footpath with no regard for pedestrians, traffic lights, intersections or road rules or helmet laws ........... no fatalities of them or pedestrians so far ....... only due to luck and a matter of time. The police oddly seem unable to see them also ..... the too hard basket being in operation.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby bychosis » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:35 am

If I think about it I don’t think this is going to make much difference at all. I see a few, admittedly not many, high school kids riding to school locally. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of them riding on the road, they all ride the footpath. It is probably one of the least obeyed rules around.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:01 pm

Ancientflatulence wrote:The researchers have obviously never seen the groups of 8 to 14 year olds who ride their bikes flat out down my town's main street footpath with no regard for pedestrians, traffic lights, intersections or road rules or helmet laws


"The researchers" are using the same old data as the rest of us. And despite decades of tearaway teenagers on treddlies terrifying townsfolk tremendously (dig out any regional rag for a read), they simply aren't a significant cause of injury, let alone death.

Once these same teenagers start driving cars it's a different matter.

Now if your town slowed the main street traffic down to a sane level and adjusted the attitudes of drivers to the point that those same teenagers were safer on the road than the footpath then a you'd have the basis for a discussion about where they should ride.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Ancientflatulence » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:11 pm

I will be sure to tell the lady of my acquaintance in her seventies that they knocked down the other day, she will be most comforted to know that ....... as stated previously, they have no respect for any road rules either ....... but I am sure that the motorists will not mind ..... amazing that it must be the motorists fault though that the kids are a mob of bloody idiots. Must the the Sainted Cyclist Syndrome ..... although in my observation stupidity would seem to be equally divided amongst the cycling and non cycling population.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:26 pm

Ancientflatulence wrote:..... although in my observation stupidity would seem to be equally divided amongst the cycling and non cycling population.

Agreed.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby diggler » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:59 pm

Ancientflatulence wrote:
biker jk wrote:Better than no change I suppose, but why not up to 18?

The researchers have obviously never seen the groups of 8 to 14 year olds who ride their bikes flat out down my town's main street footpath with no regard for pedestrians, traffic lights, intersections or road rules or helmet laws ........... no fatalities of them or pedestrians so far ....... only due to luck and a matter of time. The police oddly seem unable to see them also ..... the too hard basket being in operation.


If they are already doing this, the change in the law won't make it any worse. Lawbreakers were going to do that anyway. All it will do is allow responsible people to ride on the footpath.

Bicycles shouldn't be ridden on the footpath in areas such as shopping districts.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Thoglette » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:57 am

diggler wrote:Bicycles shouldn't be ridden on the footpath in areas such as shopping districts.

ah, a statement of faith from someone who lives in a "special" place (Vic or NSW)

Meanwhile, in most* of the rest of the world, this is not a problem.
Image

*The more enlightened places provide separation and kick the cars out completely
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:52 pm

diggler wrote:Bicycles shouldn't be ridden on the footpath in areas such as shopping districts.


Really? There seemed to be no law about this in Innsbruck when I was there. Same as in other areas like Vipiteno, Bressanone, etc.

We rode through crowded pedestrian squares with no bother - just riding at around walking speed. Nobody cared. Only one guy stopped us - merely wanting to have a look at our bikes.

There was only one laneway where bikes were not allowed - it was very narrow though. Never mind the stock photo above, I'm telling you what it really is like in places away from the well known stereotypical cycling cities.

Image

Anyone should at least visit the above place for a few weeks. It is a lovely place.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby diggler » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:18 am

Thoglette wrote:
diggler wrote:Bicycles shouldn't be ridden on the footpath in areas such as shopping districts.

ah, a statement of faith from someone who lives in a "special" place (Vic or NSW)

Meanwhile, in most* of the rest of the world, this is not a problem.
Image

*The more enlightened places provide separation and kick the cars out completely


You really think someone cycling on the footpath down George Street Sydney is a great idea?
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:17 am

diggler wrote:You really think someone cycling on the footpath down George Street Sydney is a great idea?


It happens already sometimes and the sky hasn't fallen down, nor did the world end. As for the road, last I was around that area, there wasn't a road to ride on, just barriers and construction equipment - no other option to ride down there. Riding options instead was Clarence Street or Elizabeth Street, mixing it with buses and peak hour traffic.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Warin » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:30 am

diggler wrote:You really think someone cycling on the footpath down George Street Sydney is a great idea?


I really think George St Sydney should be a pedestrian mall ... that allows bicycles.

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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:02 am

diggler wrote:You really think someone cycling on the footpath down George Street Sydney is a great idea?

Absolutely. I regularly ride through equally busy locations. (My route home takes me via the local touring-event barn) Yes, sometimes that means both feet on the ground waiting patiently and, you know, sharing the footpath (most un-2GB of me, I know :D )

Actually, as others have noted, the "great idea" would be removing several lanes of traffic from George St. If not all of them.
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Re: Teenagers up to 16 to be permitted to ride on footpaths

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:18 pm

The risk to others of cycling on the footpath are over rated, you are more likely to die by being struck by lightening than a bicycle

https://www.australiawidefirstaid.com.au/lightning-strikes/
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