Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

uart
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Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby uart » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:00 pm

I've got an 11 spd KMC chain (KMC X11.93), and although it is the longest size I could get (118 link) it's still a few links too short for the monster 29er that I want to fit it to.

I want to add a few more links from another (same type) chain, but I'm not keen on the idea of using two of those clip together style joiner links (missing links). So I'm just wondering if I can use one of those Shimano chain connector pins on a KMC chain. Like this one : http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-chain-connector-pin/

Thanks.

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby Ivanerrol » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:29 pm

I once went into a city bicycle shop and discussed this with one of the sales/service guys.
He said that he had previously worked for Sram. While working at Sram, the technical guys made up a complete chain using master links and mid pieces. They put it on a bike and ran it and waited to the chain broke - it never did.

I have extended a chain using two master links. However I split the chain and spread the master joins relatively far apart.
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:40 pm

The locking-type links (labelled as "single-use") are pretty secure, but I do prefer the Shimano pins, which are completely compatible with KMC chains. As long as there isn't any great difference in wear between the base chain and the extension (which by the sound of it there won't be here), chucking an extension in will be completely fine.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

uart
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby uart » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:14 pm

Duck! wrote: which are completely compatible with KMC chains.


Thanks Duck, that's the info I needed to know. :D (I thought that they would probably be compatible with KMC but wasn't 100% sure).

BTW. I will still use one of the "missing links" to complete final chain, but I will use a shimano replacement pin to add the extension piece.

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby jackthelad » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:11 pm

What is the Brand and Frame Size of Bike?
Are you Running Shimano or SRAM?
What Size NW Chainring?
Oval or Round?
or oldschool 2by?

Need more information ...
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby jackthelad » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:14 pm

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uart
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby uart » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:46 pm

jackthelad wrote:What is the Brand and Frame Size of Bike?
Are you Running Shimano or SRAM?
What Size NW Chainring?
Oval or Round?
or oldschool 2by?


It's just a cheap 29er converted to a 1x 11 speed. Large frame size, fairly long wheel base and very large 11 spd MTB rear cassette means that it needs about 62 to 63 double links. It's definitely going to need at least 3 (and maybe 4) more double links.

Need more information ...

No, really it isn't needed. I know how to size a chain.

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby jackthelad » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:22 pm

Sram or Shimano
The Clutches work differently
Follow the Park video, for Single Chainrings
Maybe a pic of chain in Question on Chainring/Cassette, thru Der
it is hard to provide a correct answer, without a visual.

Have you got a medium or LongCage
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:35 pm

uart wrote:I've got an 11 spd KMC chain (KMC X11.93), and although it is the longest size I could get (118 link) it's still a few links too short for the monster 29er that I want to fit it to.

I want to add a few more links from another (same type) chain, but I'm not keen on the idea of using two of those clip together style joiner links (missing links). So I'm just wondering if I can use one of those Shimano chain connector pins on a KMC chain. Like this one : http://www.wiggle.com.au/shimano-chain-connector-pin/

Thanks.


The only bit that puzzles me in this is why the reluctance to use two joiner links? If you are happy to use 1 then what is the perceived issue with 2? FWIW I swapped a 10spd cassette and chain from one bike to another with longer chainstays and I needed one inch more chain so I just used an inner link and had both the joiners together. I ran it that way until the chain wore out.

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby uart » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:51 pm

ironhanglider wrote:The only bit that puzzles me in this is why the reluctance to use two joiner links? If you are happy to use 1 then what is the perceived issue with 2? FWIW I swapped a 10spd cassette and chain from one bike to another with longer chainstays and I needed one inch more chain so I just used an inner link and had both the joiners together. I ran it that way until the chain wore out.


Yes I could just use two master links, I know that. My reasons for preferring to replace one of those master links with a joiner pin are :

1. Rightly or wrongly, I always see those master links as just a slightly weak point (or at least a potential weak point). Some people have pointed to slightly greater stretch at the master link as compared to the other links (perhaps because the plates are thinner in the region of the pin there). But having one master link is quite useful, so it's a compromise I'm prepared to make. Having two however is completely unnecessary, and actually quite useless.

2. I find that a spare master link is a valuable thing to carry on a ride (I try to always keep one in my patch kit). I don't have spare 11 spd one at the moment, so would rather use a $3 joiner pin here and keep the supplied master link (from the 2nd chain) as a road spare.

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby Duck! » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:38 pm

uart wrote:
jackthelad wrote:What is the Brand and Frame Size of Bike?
Are you Running Shimano or SRAM?
What Size NW Chainring?
Oval or Round?
or oldschool 2by?


It's just a cheap 29er converted to a 1x 11 speed. Large frame size, fairly long wheel base and very large 11 spd MTB rear cassette means that it needs about 62 to 63 double links. It's definitely going to need at least 3 (and maybe 4) more double links.

Need more information ...

No, really it isn't needed. I know how to size a chain.

What frame is it? I don't think I've ever met a bike that needed a longer-than-standard chain for a 1x system; only exceptionally rarely on a 3x.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby uart » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:16 am

Duck! wrote:What frame is it? I don't think I've ever met a bike that needed a longer-than-standard chain for a 1x system; only exceptionally rarely on a 3x.


Hi Duck, this isn't my bike, I'm just helping out a mate. So I'm not 100% on all the details, but basically it's a "bitsa". It was originally a cheap dept store bike (I think he said Big-W) and he's had lots of things changed out over the years.

Anyway, it's a very large frame size and the 1x it's running is big both front and rear! The rear is an 11-42T 11 spd MTB (shimano), but the front is still 48T.

Yeah it really surprised me as well. I got the 118 link chain (the longest I could get) because I didn't have the bike in front of me at the time and I wanted to be sure - but then when I went to install it I was shocked to find that the chain that came off it was 126 links! Seriously, I sized it up and at a pinch I might have been able to make 124 just work, but nothing shorter would be possible.

I've actually got the guy riding around at the moment with his largest 3 cogs locked out, just so that he can keep riding until I get the second chain. That makes the largest rear cog only 28T, and it's still quite a stretch for it to get to even that with the current 118 link chain! Anyway, I'll have the new chain and joiner in a few days and he'll be back to full function. :)

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby jackthelad » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:25 pm

118 link chains would be for a 44 tooth maximum chainring at max, as an aftermarket chain is 118 links long
Most 1 by Systems are Designed around, the 30 to 38 tooth Range
The Torque of a chain, 2 joining pinnings and a ramped Chainring will mean
either a Broken Cassette or Chain, twisted or Broken,
i would Suggest to you a SnaggleTooth or Deckas NW chainring, for less than $50
around the 34/36 size, 1X Setups, generally Require matching NW chainrings,
to withstand the Higher Torque, From the Bigger Gear Range
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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby Duck! » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:06 am

jackthelad wrote:The Torque of a chain, 2 joining pinnings and a ramped Chainring will mean
either a Broken Cassette or Chain, twisted or Broken,

It's got nothing to do with torque or whether the ring is ramped or not, it's the sheer size - and resulting chain wrap - of the ring in question that is dictating the necessary chain length. In fact torque becomes a most damaging concern at the opposite end of the gear spectrum, very small front ring and very large rear sprocket, where it can overpower rear hub ratchets.

Given that 48T is undeniably a bloody big ring for a 1x, it tends to suggest that the bike is not likely to be ridden in a demanding off-road sistuation, therefore the chain retention of a N/W ring is less sorely missed, so as long as the chainline isn't too munted a more coneventional ring - even one from a multi-ring system - should be OK with a long enough chain.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Extending a KMC 11 spd chain.

Postby jackthelad » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:43 am

I'd Personally Downsize the chainring,
over adding links, with extra pins or quicklinks involved
and only having a partial chain Available for another bike.
And learn how to spin, and use Cadence, on the 1X system.
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