Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

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Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:05 am

For those interested and who may have even been a member, an email (below) from the Omar Khalifa of the Australian Cyclists Party notes that it is formally winding down.

The last notable move was in September 2017 when the party announced that they were supporting the "reason" party, the former Sex party. A previous move was also vote sharing with the Science Party - both of these moves getting mixed responses from members who were supporting a 'single cause' party but by default supporting other parties which may not necessarily align with their own votes.

A notable achievement was connecting many advocacy groups... at least helping making cycling advocates a little less hostile towards one another.

One of the issues of this 'single issue' party is that the cause of viable transport can easily be adopted by others and waters - even through to the major parties who push transportation policy with a cycling component (which is usually unsubstantial... but enough feed to continually pat themselves on the back).

An important take-away is that the two leading parties will always argue that any vote for another party is a wasted vote... this is a plain and simply false, this 'claim' is made purely to retain a two party system and inhibit competition and shifting democratic influences. Single issue parties help shift public opinion and force the major parties to adapt their own policies. The current political state suggests that the media and private enterprise power over government is concerning - particularly when voters have a prime minister they didn't actually vote for... not very satisfying regardless of your political preferences.

To wrap this up - whatever your own political view, the Australian Cyclist Party and their presence in state politics was an positive move. Even though they were never destined towards becoming a significant political power, they mobilised a lot of people who were active advocated and increases the media attention to cycling topics.

Australian Cyclist Party wrote:After nearly five years and after contesting in both state and federal elections with over 50 candidates, the Australian Cyclists Party Committee has concluded that it is now time for us to wind-up our efforts.

Registered members may now choose to support and become a member of another political party - you do not need to communicate with us first. With so much still at stake, we urge you to stay involved!

We have appreciated the support of our membership that reached well over 2,000 and know through our many interactions that we had an impact through our efforts with other parties and organisations. We have been a voice when others feared to raise theirs. We have made new friends and links across Australia and also beyond. We learned a lot about policies and politics and the many issues that challenge our electoral system and affect those who do get involved.

Many of us will continue in personal or other advocacy roles and our popular ACP Facebook site will go on for now but will be re-branded soon.

I want to thank you Christopher for your support and encouragement; and to the candidates, volunteers and Committee Members, I have nothing but the deepest admiration for your contribution and commiment to supporting me and our efforts and for the future of cycling in Australia.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:20 pm

AUbicycles wrote:For those interested and who may have even been a member, an email (below) from the Omar Khalifa of the Australian Cyclists Party notes that it is formally winding down.


This is the second advocacy group that I've seen closed by the then-head honcho for what can only be described as myopic and self-centred (dare I say narcissistic?) reasons.

The closure, as outlined in the email, is predicated on the belief that, despite the 2000 strong member base, only the current leadership is able to guide and run the organisation. And if they can't (or won't) then it's better to shut it down.

A quite remarkable position to take.
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby eldavo » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Which was the first Thoglette?

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:53 pm

eldavo wrote:Which was the first Thoglette?

The BTA. Discussed here
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:05 pm

As the original Author, I specifically avoided mentioning some of the leadership issues of the Australian Cyclists Party.

This has now been raised and I would like to remind all participants to avoid personal attacks.

This can be an open discussion with different opinions, just keep respectful and challenge the topics not the person.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby GlennDruery » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:08 pm

The Australian Cyclist Party was a total fiasco at a political level!

The ACP squandered the opportunity to promote cycling friendly policies within parliamentary chambers in Australia. Ego, narcissism and incompetence at the most senior level within the party was responsible for the lack of political representation for the ACP. This, combined with large doses of ignorance and excessive hubris destroyed the party.

Such a waste!

 We cyclists could/should have had members of parliament in Victoria and New South Wales if not for the inept and selfish behaviour of the ACP leadership.

Shame on you ACP!

 A NSW government Minister said to me. "The failure of the ACP has branded the cycling community as weak and ineffectual".

This is humiliating!


The only difference the ACP has made is a negative one.

Such a pity!

Please, for the benefit of us all, stay on the canvas.


My opinion piece in the SMH says more about the damage done to our community by the Australian Cyclist Party. 
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/electora ... mj7vf.html



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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby g-boaf » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:19 pm

GlennDruery wrote: A NSW government Minister said to me. "The failure of the ACP has branded the cycling community as weak and ineffectual".

This is humiliating!


It has always been ineffectual and weak. And totally divided among the individual groups who want the future of cycling to reflect either road cycling, dutch cycling or whatever else.

It's a damned fiasco.

It's nice to escape that once a year and take your bike overseas where the motorists are respectful and people don't care what kind of bike you are riding. You are just another rider among many. But then you have to return to the hostility we have here.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:34 pm

Thoglette wrote:This is the second advocacy group that I've seen closed by the then-head honcho for what can only be described as myopic and self-centred (dare I say narcissistic?) reasons.


It's pretty common across all things, including websites, forums, Facebook groups, open source software projects, gaming guilds.

You get these founders who believe that they created it and if they have lost interest or have been voted out of office then nobody else is going to be handed ownership to continue.

Though shouldnt a political party have a more formal constitution inplace requiring a majority vote to wind up and electiin process which means senior office can't be dictated?
Or was this never a real party? Just in name only?

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby GlennDruery » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:49 pm

Or was this never a real party? Just in name only?....................... It was very real. The ACP has done more damage to cyclists than Duncan Gay could have ever wished.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:21 pm

GlennDruery wrote:The ACP has done more damage to cyclists than Duncan Gay could have ever wished.

In what way?

If they were so "ineffectual", presumably that means they were ineffectual at attaining either good or bad outcomes.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby GlennDruery » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:37 pm

The ACP made fools of themselves in the political arena and by association made the cycling community look impotent. 

The last couple of paragraphs in my opinion piece touch on this.
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/electora ... mj7vf.html

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby GlennDruery » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:43 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
GlennDruery wrote:The ACP has done more damage to cyclists than Duncan Gay could have ever wished.

In what way?

If they were so "ineffectual", presumably that means they were ineffectual at attaining either good or bad outcomes.



The ACP made fools of themselves within political arena and by association, the cycling community looked impotent.

The last couple of paragraphs in my opinion piece touch on this.
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/electora ... mj7vf.html

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby fat and old » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:49 pm

GlennDruery wrote:The ACP made fools of themselves in the political arena and by association made the cycling community look impotent. 

The last couple of paragraphs in my opinion piece touch on this.
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/electora ... mj7vf.html


Here’s an opinion piece for you.

Take your sooky la la sour grapes elsewhere; maybe over to Dave and Sean’s house; and have a big whine there. IF you feel like a fool by association, then I pity the world you live in that doesn’t allow you to stand tall on your own merits.

What a ponce, going the boot after the fact.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:28 am

GlennDruery wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
GlennDruery wrote:The ACP has done more damage to cyclists than Duncan Gay could have ever wished.

In what way?

If they were so "ineffectual", presumably that means they were ineffectual at attaining either good or bad outcomes.



The ACP made fools of themselves within political arena and by association, the cycling community looked impotent.

The last couple of paragraphs in my opinion piece touch on this.
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/electora ... mj7vf.html

Hmmm, well all I can say is that the ACP and most of the other organisations in this space are not sufficiently sizeable or united in their messaging let alone representative of cycling and cyclists to have actually done much damage. Or much good for that matter.

You're squabbling over the tiny bone fragments left over once all the piranhas and microbes have done their best to suck the juice out. It all seems rather petty and unnecessary.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby g-boaf » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:30 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Hmmm, well all I can say is that the ACP and most of the other organisations in this space are not sufficiently sizeable or united in their messaging let alone representative of cycling and cyclists to have actually done much damage. Or much good for that matter.

You're squabbling over the tiny bone fragments left over once all the piranhas and microbes have done their best to suck the juice out. It all seems rather petty and unnecessary.


Maybe the Outdoor Recreation Party might come back and advocate better for cyclists, in among getting rid of anti-hoon driving laws, increasing speed limits, etc. Now why would I mention that party? hmmm... :idea:

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm

@fat and old, that's not nice. Lift your game.



On the one hand the leadership and effectiveness of the ACP can be criticised. But It also needs to be considered that there was a very public leadership challenge and a push to change the political alignment with preferences which was in dispute.

When the ACP later aligned with the Science party and then to the Reason Party (ex-sex Party), I questioned these moves because it was akin to an endorsement of other parties with other agendas that may not necessarily represent the party member views.

In context, the ACP tribulations are a drop in the water of Australian politics. The nation has seen so many Prime Ministers of late, many not elected by the voters and accompanying poor behaviour by ministers and staff that, at face value, appears to be corrupt. Perhaps the NSW state politics isn't as turbulent but there are continuous questionable 'projects' such as the SCG rebuild or WestConnex.

And to the role of a single issue cyclists party - the objectives were, even during the active period, somewhat covered by the Green party. In other words... it was easy for the Green party to include these objectives and in the leadup to the 2013 Federal Election, the Vote4Cycling initiative pushing for accountability of politicians only saw genuine responses from Green party candidates.

A dilemna for many cyclists - also tallied in an informal survey on these forums - is that cycling is just one of their political interests and faced with a choice, it is very difficult to support a single issue party. It suggests that politically there would always be limitations and the party would have to both adapt and accept that they have to shift their core principles to reach more members and voters.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:08 pm

My view is that it didn't matter how well the ACP was managed as the bottom line is that there aren't enough of us to make the 2% vote. When the party was first formed I suggested that it needed an alliance with someone, at the time I suggested Pedestrians and used the example of the Shooters Party becoming the Shooters and Fishing Party.
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:52 am

mikesbytes wrote:My view is that it didn't matter how well the ACP was managed as the bottom line is that there aren't enough of us to make the 2% vote. When the party was first formed I suggested that it needed an alliance with someone, at the time I suggested Pedestrians and used the example of the Shooters Party becoming the Shooters and Fishing Party.

Who's "us"?

I wouldn't vote for a single issue party. Primarily because I'd have no idea how they will deal with the multitude of other very important matters.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:00 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:My view is that it didn't matter how well the ACP was managed as the bottom line is that there aren't enough of us to make the 2% vote. When the party was first formed I suggested that it needed an alliance with someone, at the time I suggested Pedestrians and used the example of the Shooters Party becoming the Shooters and Fishing Party.

Who's "us"?

I wouldn't vote for a single issue party. Primarily because I'd have no idea how they will deal with the multitude of other very important matters.

And you represent a sizable portion of the population, who aren't going to vote for a single issue party regardless on how passionate they are about that issue. Hence the pool of who will vote is even smaller.

If I was to setup a single issue party I'd have a good look at the single issue parties out there that have had success, such as the Shooters and Fishing party, to see what lessons can be learnt
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:57 am

AUbicycles wrote:A dilemna for many cyclists - also tallied in an informal survey on these forums - is that cycling is just one of their political interests and faced with a choice, it is very difficult to support a single issue party. It suggests that politically there would always be limitations and the party would have to both adapt and accept that they have to shift their core principles to reach more members and voters.

This is, as we say these days, a "false fact".

There is no "dilemma" in voting for a single issue party. If you believe has no chance of getting up direct your next votes to the mainstream party's candidates of your choice.

Yes, this means voting "below the line" but when you've only got one shot at democracy every three or four years, it's an effort worth making.
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby AdelaidePeter » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:26 pm

Thoglette wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:A dilemna for many cyclists - also tallied in an informal survey on these forums - is that cycling is just one of their political interests and faced with a choice, it is very difficult to support a single issue party. It suggests that politically there would always be limitations and the party would have to both adapt and accept that they have to shift their core principles to reach more members and voters.

This is, as we say these days, a "false fact".

There is no "dilemma" in voting for a single issue party. If you believe has no chance of getting up direct your next votes to the mainstream party's candidates of your choice.

Yes, this means voting "below the line" but when you've only got one shot at democracy every three or four years, it's an effort worth making.


I think you're mixing two different issues here. You're addressing the issue of preferential voting, but AUbicycles is raising the issue of: if an ACP candidate were to be elected, whether they would best represent his political beliefs. I have the same dilemma. I'd love support of cycling, but I'm not sure I want to vote for a candidate who supports some of the other policies which cycling parties have supported.

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby MichaelB » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:07 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:My view is that it didn't matter how well the ACP was managed as the bottom line is that there aren't enough of us to make the 2% vote. When the party was first formed I suggested that it needed an alliance with someone, at the time I suggested Pedestrians and used the example of the Shooters Party becoming the Shooters and Fishing Party.

Who's "us"?

I wouldn't vote for a single issue party. Primarily because I'd have no idea how they will deal with the multitude of other very important matters.


+100 for that. And even agree with what AP says

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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:07 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:I think you're mixing two different issues here. You're addressing the issue of preferential voting, but AUbicycles is raising the issue of: if an ACP candidate were to be elected,

I think you're correct: I made my statement in the context of the general chorus of "they'll never get a quota".

Once that happens and they start to get enough numbers on the cross bench to have a policy impact, this becomes an issue.

The Greens are going through this right now: reconciling the tensions between the flannels (farmers/shooters/fishers) on one side and the watermelons on the other. While recognising that they now represent the "university educated ex-middle class" voter that used to be progressive-labour or small-l (wet) liberal.
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby Thoglette » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:14 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I wouldn't vote for a single issue party. Primarily because I'd have no idea how they will deal with the multitude of other very important matters.

You misunderstand the role of SIP candidates, particularly when they have no-hope of getting a quota.

Where a SIP candidate won't get a seat (typically lower house) votes cast for them act as an unmissable signal to the main parties of voter concerns.

In that situation, voting 1 for a SIP candidate is a very good idea, (assuming you support their view on that issue).

Plus their presence forces the primary candidates to at least talk about their issue (if they do a decent job).

E.g. Recently a local government single issue candidate played significant role in getting a missing piece of the Perth-Freo PSP built. He talked PSP and talked PSP and talked PSP; eventually the main candidates had to respond, and both eventually promised to get it built.

It's now being built, after a delay of two decades.

OTH Where there's a chance a "minor" will get up (e.g. upper house), recent history has shown that knowing the candidate is much more important that knowing the party. So YMMV. And do your homework!
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Re: Australian Cyclists Party formally closes

Postby fat and old » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:38 pm

AUbicycles wrote:@fat and old, that's not nice. Lift your game.


I’m a bit late.....but point taken. My reasons:

1. Given the history between old mate Glenn and old mate Omar, how is what Glenn posted acceptable?

2. Given the boards preference to maintain neutral ground in all things, particularly in regard to people signing up in order to bag a shop/product/person how is what Glenn posted acceptable?

I get it, it’s your house and your rules and accept that. While I was quite rude in my execution I thought I was aligned with the guiding principles of the board. I see I wasn’t and apologise to you.

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