Should seniors ride on footpaths

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trailgumby
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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby trailgumby » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:38 pm

I wonder if "anxiety about being killed while riding on the road in certain circumstances" would qualify as a medical condition? I have a family member being treated for anxiety and depression.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby terryc » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:22 am

Absolutely bloody NOT!. This is a retrograde step in the push for safe cycling infrastructure.
It also endangers pedestrians.
I totally reject all the either/or arguments proposed in this subject.
Both are evil.
It also forces senior citizen into the slow zone.
Instead of wasting your time "debating " this devicive crud, you should be arguing for real cycling "infrastructure".

Point;
1. I am a senior citizen.
2. If needed, I can get my GP to write such a letter to be allowed to ride on the foot path.
3. GPs have no competency or training in making any such decision.
4. it was the medical profession that rammed through helmet laws and set back cycling in this country.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby uart » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:47 am

terryc wrote:Absolutely bloody NOT!. This is a retrograde step in the push for safe cycling infrastructure.
It also endangers pedestrians.
I totally reject all the either/or arguments proposed in this subject.
Both are evil.
It also forces senior citizen into the slow zone.
Instead of wasting your time "debating " this devicive crud, you should be arguing for real cycling "infrastructure".


Terry, no one wants to force anyone to use the footpath. It's more about allowing them to have that option in order to avoid dangerous sections of road where they might otherwise not feel safe enough to ride.

The reality is, that throughout the country thousands of cyclists do this every day, often only for short sections of footpath to avoid pinch points and other road hazards. Currently in many states they risk a heavy fine just for trying to stay safe.

Of course improved infrastructure, and roads that are designed with cyclists in mind, is the real answer. But in the mean time, allowing cyclists the footpath option, where they feel it necessary for their safety, is a good step.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby find_bruce » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:14 pm

uart wrote:Terry, no one wants to force anyone to use the footpath. It's more about allowing them to have that option in order to avoid dangerous sections of road where they might otherwise not feel safe enough to ride.

The reality is, that throughout the country thousands of riders do this every day, often only for short sections of footpath to avoid pinch points and other hazards. Currently in many states NSW & Victoria they risk a heavy fine just for trying to stay safe.

Of course improved infrastructure, and roads that are designed with cyclists in mind, is the real answer. But in the mean time, allowing cyclists the footpath option, where they feel it necessary for their safety, is a good step.

Fixed that for you

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:50 pm

terryc wrote:Absolutely bloody NOT!. This is a retrograde step in the push for safe cycling infrastructure.
It also endangers pedestrians.
I totally reject all the either/or arguments proposed in this subject.
Both are evil.
It also forces senior citizen into the slow zone.


It's about being allowed, not forced.

Why are Seniors a danger to pedestrians? Aren't they mature and sensible enough and have enough empathy to senior pedestrians that they will travel at an appropriate pace?
If it's because they literally can't control a bike then safer going slow on a footpath than swerving into cars on road and oncoming 40km/h bikes on a dedicated path aren't they?

Everyone legal on the footpath isn't causing serious injuries in other states.
The worst incident in the media is a fat pedestrian brushed elbows with a cyclist and then violently attacked the cyclist and broke cyclists ankle.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby uart » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:09 pm

Jmuzz wrote:Why are Seniors a danger to pedestrians? Aren't they mature and sensible enough and have enough empathy to senior pedestrians that they will travel at an appropriate pace?

That's the irony isn't Jmuzz. The teenagers that are currently allowed to ride on the footpath in NSW would be one group with the least empathy for elderly pedestrians, and also the least likely to fully appreciate any dangers that may result from their actions (not because they are bad people of course, just due to limited life experience).

find_bruce wrote:Fixed that for you

Gosh, is it really only NSW and Vic that are hold outs on this. I thought it was more. :o

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:10 pm

The number one danger to pedestrians is motor vehicles
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby shouldnobetter » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:19 pm

Jmuzz wrote:Title should add (NSW, VIC) since they are the only states this applies to. The rest have already allowed everyone.

For NSW seniors can currently get a doctor's certificate.
The conditions aren't really clear

250.1A.a
the rider is carrying a medical certificate that states a medical practitioner believes the rider should be allowed to ride on the footpath because of a medical condition the rider has

medical condition means a medical condition that makes it impractical or unsafe for a person who has the condition to ride a bicycle on the road.


Really most seniors should qualify, since lots of age related conditions justify "impractical or unsafe".
The police can't really question it, just needs a doctor to give it.
Reduced balance, vision, flexibility, reflexes, heart rate, cramps.

If the cycling groups published guides for seniors and doctors it would help those seniors get a certificate without needing legislation.


I must ask the doctor for one of these next time I visit. I don't ride much on the footpath but there are a couple of places on my commute where I feel the footpath is much safer and better all round (such as heading up Beecroft Road after coming off the M2). I've never had any trouble about it, but a 'get out of jail free' card can't hurt.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:15 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
Really most seniors should qualify, since lots of age related conditions justify "impractical or unsafe".
The police can't really question it, just needs a doctor to give it.
Reduced balance, vision, flexibility, reflexes, heart rate, cramps.

I wonder if the same case can be made for the generations that follow us "oldies". Obesity (read failing eyesight among others), prone to heart events, bodies in permanent state of stress (high blood pressure, hypertension etc).

Maybe there is a "middle generation" where health and resultant enhanced ability exists. But I'm certainly not putting the younger generations into the "fitter than the oldies" box.
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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:53 pm

shouldnobetter wrote:
Jmuzz wrote:Title should add (NSW, VIC) since they are the only states this applies to. The rest have already allowed everyone.

For NSW seniors can currently get a doctor's certificate.
The conditions aren't really clear

250.1A.a
the rider is carrying a medical certificate that states a medical practitioner believes the rider should be allowed to ride on the footpath because of a medical condition the rider has

medical condition means a medical condition that makes it impractical or unsafe for a person who has the condition to ride a bicycle on the road.


Really most seniors should qualify, since lots of age related conditions justify "impractical or unsafe".
The police can't really question it, just needs a doctor to give it.
Reduced balance, vision, flexibility, reflexes, heart rate, cramps.

If the cycling groups published guides for seniors and doctors it would help those seniors get a certificate without needing legislation.


I must ask the doctor for one of these next time I visit. I don't ride much on the footpath but there are a couple of places on my commute where I feel the footpath is much safer and better all round (such as heading up Beecroft Road after coming off the M2). I've never had any trouble about it, but a 'get out of jail free' card can't hurt.

Will this also mean you are deemed unfit to drive?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby find_bruce » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:37 am

Don't you realise it's dangerous to ride on the footpath - you might run into a parked truck
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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:58 am

^^ Why not put pic in http://www.rate-driver.com.au/rate-a-driver.php.
No need to register and anyone can post it anonymously.
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby find_bruce » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:05 am

Will give it a try - reporting it to the Clowncil hasn't achieved a result as yet

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby outnabike » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:20 am

terryc wrote:.

Point;
1. I am a senior citizen.
2. If needed, I can get my GP to write such a letter to be allowed to ride on the foot path.
3. GPs have no competency or training in making any such decision.
4. it was the medical profession that rammed through helmet laws and set back cycling in this country.


Hi Terry,
I know of no such allowance by a doctor in the law ...do you?
My info is a doctor can make a helmet unnecessary on medical grounds, but not make a vehicle safe on a foot path, if it is forbidden by law.
The only allowance is to be in charge of a child up to 12 years old.

They might just say go get a scooter.

I have been made to remove my bike that I was only walking with, in a shopping center mall.
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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:28 am

find_bruce wrote:Will give it a try - reporting it to the Clowncil hasn't achieved a result as yet


Ok, I lied of the wheelchair. :D
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby Scintilla » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:22 am

outnabike wrote: I know of no such allowance by a doctor in the law ...do you?
My info is a doctor can make a helmet unnecessary on medical grounds, but not make a vehicle safe on a foot path, if it is forbidden by law.


Exactly correct.

outnabike wrote:They might just say go get a scooter.


That is a quite likely response that a doctor may make. That or "HTFU", as it is very clearly the law.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby terryc » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:46 pm

outnabike wrote: I know of no such allowance by a doctor in the law ...do you?

Not yet. You can bet your bottom dollar if there is any consideration, MDs will be brought into it. In and as any competent MD will tell you this is way outside their training.

The fundamental objection I have is that the weaker in our society are being threatened with reduced safety by a proposal being pushed by another bunch of useless bicycle "advocates". Instead of taking from pedestrians, the push should alway be to make motor vehicles share their space.

The figure I've been taught is that up to 40% of cities/towns/etc are taken up in catering for motor vehicles and there are continual demands to give them more and more in a perpetual cycle of addiction. The cycle needs to be broken and other methods of urban mobility developed and encouraged. What people call the "Dutch System" may be the best, may be not. At least is appears to be continually evolving, unlike the devolution of throwing fast moving masses into groups of pedestrians.

I'm thinking in the concept of multiple levels of momentum(speed x mass) rather than "King Car" taking all its wants and the rest are just peasant to squabble over the scraps.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby AdelaidePeter » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:56 pm

terryc wrote:
outnabike wrote: I know of no such allowance by a doctor in the law ...do you?

Not yet. You can bet your bottom dollar if there is any consideration, MDs will be brought into it. In and as any competent MD will tell you this is way outside their training.

The fundamental objection I have is that the weaker in our society are being threatened with reduced safety by a proposal being pushed by another bunch of useless bicycle "advocates". Instead of taking from pedestrians, the push should alway be to make motor vehicles share their space.


And until every single car driver shares, what are we meant to do?
Also, nothing is being taken from pedestrians, because the rule is that cyclists give way to pedestrians always.

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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby outnabike » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:20 pm

I tried the helmet deal on with my Doc....trouble is we have been mates for 40 years.
I said "doc I get terrible head aches and can't ride my bike with a helmet on, it makes my head hurt. Can I get a dispensation?"

He replied so quickly it was frightening. "Get a bigger helmet." I grinned so hard it made my face hurt..... :)
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Re: Should seniors ride on footpaths

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:54 pm

outnabike wrote:I tried the helmet deal on with my Doc....trouble is we have been mates for 40 years.
I said "doc I get terrible head aches and can't ride my bike with a helmet on, it makes my head hurt. Can I get a dispensation?"

He replied so quickly it was frightening. "Get a bigger helmet." I grinned so hard it made my face hurt..... :)

Aren't some quacks just so miserly. :lol:

My GP of thirty something years drafted and signed a document headed "Medical Certificate" of which I carry a copy in my wallet. It explains that I have chronic foot pain in both feet that necessitates me using my unicycle "as a form of mobility aid". It makes for easier dealing with the occasional shopping centre security people, retail outlets, airline staff and overly officious types.

Seriously. (And true.)
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