High Pressure Gravel Tyres

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Thoglette
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Thoglette » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:15 pm

Paddles wrote:I ordered them through my local bike shop because I try to put my cash across their counter as much as I can, but I did a bit of legwork for them.

Cool. I might try this as I'm getting hammered on postage ex-.de (and ex-.usa is worse)

Paddles wrote:but also removing some resistance from the sidewall.
Not so fast - they still need something to keep the goo in, which does mean some sort of sidewall sealant (or dried goo). But if you have prickles around, goo is good!

hamishm wrote:what pressure should I (of 90ish kg) put in my 40mm Ramblers?

About 50 on road, a bit less off road. Suck it and see. Eventually you'll start wearing out the tyre side walls before the tread, :oops: which indicates you're probably running atbelow the lower limit
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hamishm
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby hamishm » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:54 am

Thoglette wrote:
hamishm wrote:what pressure should I (of 90ish kg) put in my 40mm Ramblers?

About 50 on road, a bit less off road. Suck it and see. Eventually you'll start wearing out the tyre side walls before the tread, :oops: which indicates you're probably running atbelow the lower limit

Thanks, I'll try that on my next gravel ride. I know the 60 is too much but I've got an irrational fear of getting a pinch flat and not being able to get the tyres back on the damn tubeless rims properly on the side of the road. :oops:

Paddles
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Paddles » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:20 pm

Feedback part 2 - now the rain has eased, I went on a 45km road loop with a few paths and gutter jumps and a krappy 10kn breeze off the bay that never really turned into a tailwind. Had the tyres at 60psi and for smooth and fast Strava sections the times were slightly slower than what i'd previously done with 28c at 100psi on my old road bike and with 35c at75psi on this current bike. On rough, blue metal roads with broken up patches the times were similar and on a section where I used to have to be more careful because of ruts and drains and speedbumps I actually went quicker. But the big thing is that the bike was just so much more comfortable and felt like it wasn't tiring me out so it's a winner. When the forest dries out a bit I'll put in a gravel road / tyre rut track loop and that's where I'm really expecting these tyres to make a difference, I'll drop pressures to 50psi rear and 45psi front for that.

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hamishm
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby hamishm » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:13 pm

Yep the Ramblers are much nicer at 50 psi. It feels like grip is a lot better on loose gravel, plus the bumps aren't so harsh.

Lost in Japan
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Lost in Japan » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:17 am

Under no circumstances get Challenge tyres: they might roll well, but who'd know, they're virtually impossible to get on rims or only with a fight. And once on you can have no confidence you'll be able to get them off—especially in adverse conditions (try the middle of the night in the rain). No matter how well it rolls, a tyre which takes anything more than 15 mins to get on the rim is unfit for purpose. A tyre which takes upwards of three hours and still won't go on any rim—and, yes, I do know how to fit & change a tyre, I've been doing it for 45 years; and I've seen Challenge's advice on how to mount their tyres—is absolutely unfit for purpose. A tyre which leaves you no confidence that you'll be able to change the tube is unfit for purpose.

I have only tried the Parigi Roubaix and the Strava Bianca, so it's a pretty small sample, but the PR's were very difficult to mount and take off, and remained so despite being taken on and off multiple times because they were so fragile they punctured practically every day until I threw them away. The SB's were impossible to mount on any rim I own and I'm unwilling to try any more because they just cost too damn much. They do look pretty though.

My conclusion:
Challenge tyres: over priced, over hyped, and under sized.

(BTW I've tried them on Bontrager, HED, and Mavic aluminium rims. I've had no problems fitting Schwalbe, Vittoria, Continental, or Compass tyres.)

lewie15
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby lewie15 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:11 am

I run around 30 PSI on the gravel on my Ramblers, but I run them tubeless. I would not bother with a gravel bike without tubeless tyres. It is so good to be able to change tyre pressure to suit the circumstances and not have to worry about pinch flats. Just checked Strava and i've done 1418 km puncture free kilometres on my Ramblers. I love the fact they can handle mixed surface rides so well. Can maintain 28-30 km on the road easily. My loop of around 100 km involves 70 km's on gravel and dirt and I usually average 25 km an hour. The only downside is they seem to wear quickly. Reckon I will get around 2000 km out of them.
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singlespeedscott
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:53 pm

Personally I would have gone the gravel king slick. I’ve found the 32mm version to be a great tyre on my commuter. They roll nearly as fast as my Compass Stampede pass tyres with a slightly more robust sidewall.

The traditional diamond/chevron tread really is a good alrounder. I have read the drop on the Soma tyres can get a a little vague when lent over, hard into the turns.
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Lukeyboy
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:19 am

Lost in Japan wrote:Under no circumstances get Challenge tyres: they might roll well, but who'd know, they're virtually impossible to get on rims or only with a fight. And once on you can have no confidence you'll be able to get them off—especially in adverse conditions (try the middle of the night in the rain). No matter how well it rolls, a tyre which takes anything more than 15 mins to get on the rim is unfit for purpose. A tyre which takes upwards of three hours and still won't go on any rim—and, yes, I do know how to fit & change a tyre, I've been doing it for 45 years; and I've seen Challenge's advice on how to mount their tyres—is absolutely unfit for purpose. A tyre which leaves you no confidence that you'll be able to change the tube is unfit for purpose.


I changed a tube with a challenge tire during a 160km cx enduro race and only lost 3 minutes to the lead group. Also swapped two challenge tires 30 minutes before a CX race with only 25 minutes to spare.

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Paddles
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Paddles » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:48 pm

I've been pretty happy with these Soma Shikoro 42 so far, way better in sand/gravel than the Maxxis Razzo the bike came with but I ran the Razzo tyres at higher pressures than these Soma's because I was scared of pinches. I'm still figuring out the best gravel pressure but last ride I used 40-45 and they were pretty damn good and rolled nice on bitumen too. At 104kg I'm no lightweight and I'm no racer either Scott so I'm liking the extra profile height at the lower pressures to help with not getting pinches and I'm not good enough to notice any performance issues from the drop through corners. I understand the theory behind tubeless and it makes sense, but for me I prefer the practicality that tubes give me for a quick repair on the side of the road over the minimal tyre performance gain for a squid like me. Because this bike is my only ride bike now, the Soma tyres are a fantastic compromise and seem to cope well with just about anything I can throw at them by just changing pressure from 40 through to 70.

owly
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby owly » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:50 am

Volummy 700x38 are a filetread, tubeless, robust (weight) option. 90psi+
MUFC :twisted:

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MichaelB
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:27 pm

I find the names and huge variety of 'gravel' tyres really interesting, especially now that I have a bike that is capable of being ridden as a 'gravel bike' (Cannondale Slate) although I do use it for a bit of single track, and light MTB'ish stuff as well.

It's currently fitted with the G-One All Round, and whilst fairly new, will be used until worn out.

The surfaces that I see are road (to get to some of the dirt tracks), smooth hard packed and sometimes rocky single track (up & downhill) that is mostly dry or damp but not muddy, or proper gravel/dirt back roads. So the G-Ones at the moment, suit me fine.

I was shown a link to a test in Granfondo e-magazine, there they tested 10 tyres (in 700C) to come up with their recommendations. Makes for interesting reading (lotsa details !!).

The tyres they tested were

Challenge Gravel Grinder - 38C
Compass Barlow Pass - 38C
Donnelly X'PLOR MSO - 40C
Maxxis Rambler - 40C
Maxxis Ravager - 40C
Panaracer Gravel King - 43C
Schwalbe G-One Bite Evo Microskin - 40C
Schwalbe G-One Allround Evo V-Guard - 40C
WTB Resolute - 42C
WTB Riddler - 37C

Really interesting reading that and seeing even more names and brands in this thread. Having 650B wheels, makes some of the coices a bit more limited, but still really interesting :mrgreen:

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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Thoglette » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:12 pm

MichaelB wrote:Really interesting reading that and seeing even more names and brands in this thread. Having 650B wheels, makes some of the coices a bit more limited, but still really interesting :mrgreen:


Indeed, although I worry when I see statements like the following bandied about without (AFAIK) any supporting evidence
Gran Fondo wrote:Compared to a setup with a tube, a tubeless system saves an average of 10 % rolling resistance


If it's an average, backed by reality rather than marketing, the peloton would have converted years ago. Meanwhile, some of us remember putting water into our mate's tyres as a joke (it slows you down).

Finally, as always, it's like they got some random tyres and then decided what their criteria are, as at least two brands got pinged for too-many/not-enough knobs when others in their range would have met the magic level of knobbiness.
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MichaelB
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:13 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Finally, as always, it's like they got some random tyres and then decided what their criteria are, as at least two brands got pinged for too-many/not-enough knobs when others in their range would have met the magic level of knobbiness.


I'm not pretending in any way that their review is fully correct, comprehensive, representative etc.

Just as a newbie to the scene, it's interesting to read and see some of the comments. And then find out 50% are no good, as they don't come in 650B. Meh.

Still stick to the 'believe 50% of what you read and 50% of what you see"

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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Thoglette » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:24 pm

MichaelB wrote:I'm not pretending in any way that their review is fully correct, comprehensive, representative etc.
...
Still stick to the 'believe 50% of what you read and 50% of what you see"

Indeed! Still, as you say, nice to see a range of different tyres being testd.
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:18 pm

I still believe that knobs are unnecessary for dirt roads/gravel and hard pack single track.
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:45 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:I still believe that knobs are unnecessary for dirt roads/gravel and hard pack single track.


Even when wet ?

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Lukeyboy
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:25 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:I still believe that knobs are unnecessary for dirt roads/gravel and hard pack single track.

Then you don't go fast enough :)

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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Paddles » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:59 pm

I agree Scott, because my bike is an allrounder and used for both sealed road riding and forest track riding I've gone with a high volume slick and they work really well for all surfaces I ride on. All I do is drop the pressure in the dirt and they work fantastic. I'm not fast though, I like to take in the sights, nor do I ride if it's wet and muddy :D

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singlespeedscott
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:42 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote:I still believe that knobs are unnecessary for dirt roads/gravel and hard pack single track.

Then you don't go fast enough :)

I'm plenty fast enough thanks Luke.

Knobs are really only needed for single track with loose over hardpack or slick mud, for your typical gravel/dirt road ride they are unnecessary.
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Lost in Japan
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Lost in Japan » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:25 pm

changed a tube with a challenge tire during a 160km cx enduro race and only lost 3 minutes to the lead group. Also swapped two challenge tires 30 minutes before a CX race with only 25 minutes to spare.


I took the Strada Biancas back to the bike shop. Following is a quotation from the shop owner when I told him they were impossible to mount and that there were *many* complaints about Challenge tyres in general, and Strada Biancas in particular, on the web. He said (not verbatim, but closely paraphrased): "Oh, yes, they're very difficult to get on; they can take a very long time. One of my mechanics can't get them on at all, and the other always complains about them." Why he recommended them is a mystery.

With respect, YRMV: I have had bad experiences with the two sets of Challenge tyres I have bought. Not a big sample, but I've never had a 100% strike out rate with any other brand of tyres, and I'm disinclined to try more. I haven't kept a list of all the places I found people complaining about SB's but you might try the Paceline forum and the comments in the review at, I think, bikerumour. I also ask—were you using Strada Biancas? Were you using *my* Strada Biancas (there can be variation in batches from any manufacturer, I imagine; but it's hard to see why the variations should be so great)?

I don't have time to spend trying to wrestle tyres with known problems onto rims; worrying that I may not be able to get them off; repairing punctures due to fragile, poorly made tyres; or searching though batches of Challenge tyres to find the ones that work.

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Thoglette
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Thoglette » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:19 pm

Lost in Japan wrote:... or searching though batches of Challenge tyres to find the ones that work.


Interestingly the tests that MichaelB linked to (see below) noted that there was notable variation in the size of the Challenge tyres.

(Not to be outdone, one of the other brands had a tyre delaminate)

MichaelB wrote:I was shown a link to a test in Granfondo e-magazine, there they tested 10 tyres (in 700C) to come up with their recommendations.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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MichaelB
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby MichaelB » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:04 pm

Given the amount of riding I’ll do off-road, ot’ll Be a while before I wear out my G-ones.
So I’ll keep reading with interest of feedback, and what surfaces I end up riding on.

Cheers

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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby Paddles » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:49 am

Hey Michael, if you're really only riding your gravel bike on gravel then you probably wouldn't notice much difference between the fine tread on your G-Ones and a slick, it's when you get on a sealed section that you'd notice the difference with no buzz from the tread and a slick feels like it rolls a little quicker.

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MichaelB
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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby MichaelB » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:57 pm

True Paddles.

Gotta wear them out 1st !!

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Re: High Pressure Gravel Tyres

Postby MichaelB » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:34 pm


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