Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

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Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 am

Copy of traffic information

Forest Fire Management Victoria will be scheduling a planned burn at Scenic Crescent in Kalorama in the next few weeks if the conditions are suitable. It is hoped that this important fuel reduction burn of 8.9 hectares can be carried out prior to summer.

The planned burn is along the south (high) side of Mount Dandenong Tourist Road, near the intersection with Inverness Road.

We expect that this burn will not have significant impacts on people living in, or visiting, the area.

There will be traffic management on Mount Dandenong Tourist Road to ensure public safety and to allow fire fighters safe access to conduct and patrol the burn.
The road will be reduced to one lane.
Traffic will alternate in each direction with short delays of 2-5 minutes expected.
We recommend people allow a little extra time for journeys during the planned burn.

For their safety, bicycle riders will not be permitted to ride past the active burn in either direction.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby Cyclophiliac » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:10 am

So they're refusing cyclists access to a road they're legally entitled to use, but allowing motorists access? Now I know I'm back from France. :roll:
I rode through numerous alternate-direction roadworks areas while over there, and never had this rubbish.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby lone rider » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:25 pm

Cyclophiliac wrote:So they're refusing cyclists access to a road they're legally entitled to use, but allowing motorists access? Now I know I'm back from France. :roll:
I rode through numerous alternate-direction roadworks areas while over there, and never had this rubbish.


Its a dirt road that goes nowhere special, doubt they get much more than local traffic and a postie on a busy day.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby A_P » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:35 pm

Cyclophiliac wrote:So they're refusing cyclists access to a road they're legally entitled to use, but allowing motorists access? Now I know I'm back from France. :roll:
I rode through numerous alternate-direction roadworks areas while over there, and never had this rubbish.


So you would not be concerned with smoke inhalation and the possible medical emergencies that could result ?
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby Cyclophiliac » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:35 pm

lone rider wrote:
Cyclophiliac wrote:So they're refusing cyclists access to a road they're legally entitled to use, but allowing motorists access? Now I know I'm back from France. :roll:
I rode through numerous alternate-direction roadworks areas while over there, and never had this rubbish.


Its a dirt road that goes nowhere special, doubt they get much more than local traffic and a postie on a busy day.

I suggest you reread the 1st post in this thread: Mount Dandenong Tourist Road will be closed to cyclists.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby A_P » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:44 pm

i read it...
so they are burning off bushland?
smoke?
possible low visibility?
wouldnt want pedestrians on that road either.
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby cyclotaur » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:59 pm

Plenty of other ride options in the Nongs.

Agencies have a job to do - small, short-term inconvenience for reducing fire risk over coming months/years.

Thanks to the OP for the notice.
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby BJL » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:37 pm

A_P wrote:i read it...
so they are burning off bushland?
smoke?
possible low visibility?
wouldnt want pedestrians on that road either.


Yes, they would be burning off forest. However, it would also be on the upper side of the road, and fire and smoke tend to move upwards, away from the tourist road. Aside from maybe having to have a couple of fire trucks on the tourist road, I highly doubt there would be any issues on the tourist road itself. When they were burning off forest on the lower side of that same stretch of road not long ago, where fire and smoke was heading upwards towards the tourist road, ALL traffic was diverted around the area.

As for pedestrians, there's no footpath and I've rarely, if ever in my 44 years, seen anyone walk along there. Maybe I will soon enough though.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby macca33 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:53 pm

There is no pleasing some people..... #noBArequired .....
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby djw47 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:53 pm

It's common sense to keep cyclists away. If you happen to have seen some of the images or footage of the roadside burn-offs they do you'll appreciate that they get hot and the fire can get right up close to the road. Fine if you have a car and are safely tucked inside a metal box (although must be terrible for the paintwork), not fine if you are exposed to the smoke, heat and flying embers on a bike. It's common sense to remove people who would be at risk from the area to avoid injury or worse.

As a resident in the Dandenongs and a regular cyclist on the mountain, I personally don't give a damn if it inconveniences a casual rider on a weekend ride, there are plenty of alternative roads in the area and it's a relatively short inconvenience that reduces the risk to my community when the temperature rises in summer. Nobody should feel their individual rights are more important than the rights of the community.
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby antigee » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:07 pm

3 or 4 years ago made the mistake of riding up the 1in20 after a controlled burn and think the taste and smell of smoke stayed in my throat for several days afterwards not an experience would choose to repeat - thanks to the OP for posting

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby Neddysmith » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:49 pm

djw47 wrote:It's common sense to keep cyclists away.

How dare you bring common sense to an argument in a time where self entitlement prevails........

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby BJL » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:32 pm

Neddysmith wrote:
djw47 wrote:It's common sense to keep cyclists away.

How dare you bring common sense to an argument in a time where self entitlement prevails........


Common sense would be if the entire area was national park as it should have been from the start and the self entitled hillbillies who demand that national park be burned off and cleared to protect their homes lived elsewhere. Preferably where bush fires aren't such a risk. Maybe somewhere out west like Melton :x

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby djw47 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:57 pm

BJL wrote:
Neddysmith wrote:
djw47 wrote:It's common sense to keep cyclists away.

How dare you bring common sense to an argument in a time where self entitlement prevails........


Common sense would be if the entire area was national park as it should have been from the start and the self entitled hillbillies who demand that national park be burned off and cleared to protect their homes lived elsewhere. Preferably where bush fires aren't such a risk. Maybe somewhere out west like Melton :x


Is that Melton in Victoria? the same Melton that's in a designated bushfire prone area? As is most of the state outside of densely populated suburban Melbourne. Perhaps we should abandon the state and move everybody into McMansions in the bleak outer burbs so that a few self-entitled people can cycle in the hills 365 days of the year.. :lol: All those hillbillies that grow and produce the food, flowers, plants, wine etc, that the city dwellers enjoy in their "most liveable city" should really take a long hard look at themselves and their self-entitled lifestyles.

Burning off is not only to protect the locals in the Dandenongs, it's protection for everybody who lives in Melbourne - a bushfire out east would fill the city with toxic wood smoke/smog for days.
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby BJL » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:56 am

Melton would be at risk of grass fires. There's barely any 'bush' left over there to burn.

Mate, if you want me to start ranting about what I think about the Hillbillies that 'own' the entire Dandenong Ranges, then let me know but for one, I'm sick to death of the garbage that comes out every time that 'community' opens its mouth.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby djw47 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:51 pm

BJL wrote:Melton would be at risk of grass fires. There's barely any 'bush' left over there to burn.

Mate, if you want me to start ranting about what I think about the Hillbillies that 'own' the entire Dandenong Ranges, then let me know but for one, I'm sick to death of the garbage that comes out every time that 'community' opens its mouth.


I'm a resident in the Dandenongs and that community as you put it does not speak as one on anything other than trying to keep the place safe to live in - hence the burn-offs that have offended you so much.

By community are you referring to the NIMBY hippy community that dress as gnomes and bang drums outside MacDonalds in Tecoma or anywhere else that shows signs of progress, much to the annoyance of pretty much everybody? or are you referring to the drivers who get pissed off at being held up on the 1 in 20, many of whom are not locals but people visiting the area to have a cup of tea in Sassafras before heading back to their dull suburb?

I'm genuinely not sure why you have so much hatred for a community.
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby BJL » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:13 pm

djw47 wrote:
BJL wrote:Melton would be at risk of grass fires. There's barely any 'bush' left over there to burn.

Mate, if you want me to start ranting about what I think about the Hillbillies that 'own' the entire Dandenong Ranges, then let me know but for one, I'm sick to death of the garbage that comes out every time that 'community' opens its mouth.


I'm a resident in the Dandenongs and that community as you put it does not speak as one on anything other than trying to keep the place safe to live in - hence the burn-offs that have offended you so much.

By community are you referring to the NIMBY hippy community that dress as gnomes and bang drums outside MacDonalds in Tecoma or anywhere else that shows signs of progress, much to the annoyance of pretty much everybody? or are you referring to the drivers who get pissed off at being held up on the 1 in 20, many of whom are not locals but people visiting the area to have a cup of tea in Sassafras before heading back to their dull suburb?

I'm genuinely not sure why you have so much hatred for a community.


Okay, you want to push my buttons.

Firstly, I'm not talking about the entire Yarra Ranges (as bad as many of them are when it comes to cyclists), I'm talking specifically of the region between the existing Dandenong Ranges National Park on the north face of the mountain where it ends at the ridge line down to roads between Mt Evelyn --> Monbulk --> Kallista --> Belgrave --> Upper Ferntree Gully.

Now, this region produces bugger all of bugger all so if the entire area was shut down, I highly doubt the hamlet of Yellingbo would starve or the bottle shop run dry, let alone Melbourne. Most of the 'produce' produced in this region would be of the type that the police might be interested in. It is by and large a residential region with a few B&B's, shops and restaurants thrown in.

And judging by the steady stream of cars that make there way up and down the mountain each and every day, I'll take an educated guess that most residents up there actually work somewhere else. A steady stream of cars which greatly contributes to the congestion of the roads in my area. Not just congestion, but noise and pollution.

I can't even walk around Montrose without having some turd place their own little home made sign on the '60' sign opposite Montrose Oval saying that cyclists have plenty of other places to ride and that whenever a car comes along, cyclists should get off the road. Gee, I wonder where the person who left this garbage illegally attached to a speed limit sign lives. No points for that one. Now I'm not quite sure how it happened because in my anger I seem to have suffered a bout of amnesia but a few minutes later, that sign had made its way to the dump master at the back of the IGA.

And then there's the usual abuse I cop every time I ride around The Dandenongs and the regular complaints I hear from other cyclists.

Not to mention the reaction from YOUR community regarding the women's ascent challenge held a couple of years back. Yes, BN went a little too far with road closures however the community was given plenty of notice and their general response of threats to cyclists and the throwing of tacks onto the 1/20 sealed it for me. YOUR 'community' has had its say and I've no more time to listen to the crap that comes out of that area anymore.

And maybe you might have read some of the comments from the stupid petition that some turd from up there started to ban cyclists from The Dandenongs. And used a picture of a pro peleton whilst saying it wasn't a 'hate' petition against cyclists. Yeah right. And many of the comments supported that hate. With plenty of threats to injure cyclists.

No one seems to mind the traffic jam CARS cause in Dandenongs every weekend in Olinda and Sassafras though do they, because when cars cause traffic jams, it's okay. Nor does anyone seem to mind the damage to the roads up there that motor vehicles cause. Let's also not mention the last real bush fire threat up that way happened to be a MOTOR VEHICLE that caught fire on the 1/20 on a hot day a couple of years back. But that's tame in comparison to all the cyclists who have spontaneously combusted riding up there. :roll:

YOU and the entire Dandenong Ranges community have plenty of other places YOU can drive your noisy, smoky !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! boxes and plenty of other places to live. Don't like sharing the roads, then you can !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! and stop using the roads.

The entire area mentioned at the beginning of my post should be added to the existing national park and the residents 'moved' on. Not allowed to sell to anyone but the government. Die and the government buys it back from your heirs. A few decades and it'll be done.

The Dandenong Ranges should be restored to its natural state.

If that offends, tough luck because I take offence to people making thinly veiled threats to injure or kill me simply for riding a bicycle on the roads. Something YOUR 'community' does on a regular basis. And BTW, I only picked Melton because it's far away over the other side of the city. Away from me.

So while you ask me why my hatred of your community, I ask you why your community hates cyclists? At least I don't make threats. Yet.

The sad bit is that I know a couple of cyclists that live in The Dandenongs. I've also seen one cyclist who lives up there post somewhere that they were sick and tired of arguing with the nutters (yes, they said 'nutters' or to that effect) and stopped replying to the cyclist hatred on social media. Nice 'community' you have. Must be a great bunch of people. Even sadder is that your community is not alone in this. Far from it.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby Cyclophiliac » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:40 pm

BJL wrote:
djw47 wrote:
BJL wrote:Melton would be at risk of grass fires. There's barely any 'bush' left over there to burn.

Mate, if you want me to start ranting about what I think about the Hillbillies that 'own' the entire Dandenong Ranges, then let me know but for one, I'm sick to death of the garbage that comes out every time that 'community' opens its mouth.


I'm a resident in the Dandenongs and that community as you put it does not speak as one on anything other than trying to keep the place safe to live in - hence the burn-offs that have offended you so much.

By community are you referring to the NIMBY hippy community that dress as gnomes and bang drums outside MacDonalds in Tecoma or anywhere else that shows signs of progress, much to the annoyance of pretty much everybody? or are you referring to the drivers who get pissed off at being held up on the 1 in 20, many of whom are not locals but people visiting the area to have a cup of tea in Sassafras before heading back to their dull suburb?

I'm genuinely not sure why you have so much hatred for a community.


Okay, you want to push my buttons.

Firstly, I'm not talking about the entire Yarra Ranges (as bad as many of them are when it comes to cyclists), I'm talking specifically of the region between the existing Dandenong Ranges National Park on the north face of the mountain where it ends at the ridge line down to roads between Mt Evelyn --> Monbulk --> Kallista --> Belgrave --> Upper Ferntree Gully.

Now, this region produces bugger all of bugger all so if the entire area was shut down, I highly doubt the hamlet of Yellingbo would starve or the bottle shop run dry, let alone Melbourne. Most of the 'produce' produced in this region would be of the type that the police might be interested in. It is by and large a residential region with a few B&B's, shops and restaurants thrown in.

And judging by the steady stream of cars that make there way up and down the mountain each and every day, I'll take an educated guess that most residents up there actually work somewhere else. A steady stream of cars which greatly contributes to the congestion of the roads in my area. Not just congestion, but noise and pollution.

I can't even walk around Montrose without having some turd place their own little home made sign on the '60' sign opposite Montrose Oval saying that cyclists have plenty of other places to ride and that whenever a car comes along, cyclists should get off the road. Gee, I wonder where the person who left this garbage illegally attached to a speed limit sign lives. No points for that one. Now I'm not quite sure how it happened because in my anger I seem to have suffered a bout of amnesia but a few minutes later, that sign had made its way to the dump master at the back of the IGA.

And then there's the usual abuse I cop every time I ride around The Dandenongs and the regular complaints I hear from other cyclists.

Not to mention the reaction from YOUR community regarding the women's ascent challenge held a couple of years back. Yes, BN went a little too far with road closures however the community was given plenty of notice and their general response of threats to cyclists and the throwing of tacks onto the 1/20 sealed it for me. YOUR 'community' has had its say and I've no more time to listen to the crap that comes out of that area anymore.

And maybe you might have read some of the comments from the stupid petition that some turd from up there started to ban cyclists from The Dandenongs. And used a picture of a pro peleton whilst saying it wasn't a 'hate' petition against cyclists. Yeah right. And many of the comments supported that hate. With plenty of threats to injure cyclists.

No one seems to mind the traffic jam CARS cause in Dandenongs every weekend in Olinda and Sassafras though do they, because when cars cause traffic jams, it's okay. Nor does anyone seem to mind the damage to the roads up there that motor vehicles cause. Let's also not mention the last real bush fire threat up that way happened to be a MOTOR VEHICLE that caught fire on the 1/20 on a hot day a couple of years back. But that's tame in comparison to all the cyclists who have spontaneously combusted riding up there. :roll:

YOU and the entire Dandenong Ranges community have plenty of other places YOU can drive your noisy, smoky !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! boxes and plenty of other places to live. Don't like sharing the roads, then you can !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! and stop using the roads.

The entire area mentioned at the beginning of my post should be added to the existing national park and the residents 'moved' on. Not allowed to sell to anyone but the government. Die and the government buys it back from your heirs. A few decades and it'll be done.

The Dandenong Ranges should be restored to its natural state.

If that offends, tough luck because I take offence to people making thinly veiled threats to injure or kill me simply for riding a bicycle on the roads. Something YOUR 'community' does on a regular basis. And BTW, I only picked Melton because it's far away over the other side of the city. Away from me.

So while you ask me why my hatred of your community, I ask you why your community hates cyclists? At least I don't make threats. Yet.

The sad bit is that I know a couple of cyclists that live in The Dandenongs. I've also seen one cyclist who lives up there post somewhere that they were sick and tired of arguing with the nutters (yes, they said 'nutters' or to that effect) and stopped replying to the cyclist hatred on social media. Nice 'community' you have. Must be a great bunch of people. Even sadder is that your community is not alone in this. Far from it.

+1 to all of the above.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:09 pm

Admin Says: There has been a report and am seriously having a tough time understanding whether this is an active discussion or whether comments are causing offence.

Also, we do have a word censor so that it is more suitable for broader audiences - so if you accidentally trigger this, the post can be edited and all of those nasty words replaced with fun and happy words.

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby djw47 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 pm

BJL wrote:
djw47 wrote:
BJL wrote:Melton would be at risk of grass fires. There's barely any 'bush' left over there to burn.

Mate, if you want me to start ranting about what I think about the Hillbillies that 'own' the entire Dandenong Ranges, then let me know but for one, I'm sick to death of the garbage that comes out every time that 'community' opens its mouth.


I'm a resident in the Dandenongs and that community as you put it does not speak as one on anything other than trying to keep the place safe to live in - hence the burn-offs that have offended you so much.

By community are you referring to the NIMBY hippy community that dress as gnomes and bang drums outside MacDonalds in Tecoma or anywhere else that shows signs of progress, much to the annoyance of pretty much everybody? or are you referring to the drivers who get pissed off at being held up on the 1 in 20, many of whom are not locals but people visiting the area to have a cup of tea in Sassafras before heading back to their dull suburb?

I'm genuinely not sure why you have so much hatred for a community.


Okay, you want to push my buttons.

Firstly, I'm not talking about the entire Yarra Ranges (as bad as many of them are when it comes to cyclists), I'm talking specifically of the region between the existing Dandenong Ranges National Park on the north face of the mountain where it ends at the ridge line down to roads between Mt Evelyn --> Monbulk --> Kallista --> Belgrave --> Upper Ferntree Gully.

Now, this region produces bugger all of bugger all so if the entire area was shut down, I highly doubt the hamlet of Yellingbo would starve or the bottle shop run dry, let alone Melbourne. Most of the 'produce' produced in this region would be of the type that the police might be interested in. It is by and large a residential region with a few B&B's, shops and restaurants thrown in.

And judging by the steady stream of cars that make there way up and down the mountain each and every day, I'll take an educated guess that most residents up there actually work somewhere else. A steady stream of cars which greatly contributes to the congestion of the roads in my area. Not just congestion, but noise and pollution.

I can't even walk around Montrose without having some turd place their own little home made sign on the '60' sign opposite Montrose Oval saying that cyclists have plenty of other places to ride and that whenever a car comes along, cyclists should get off the road. Gee, I wonder where the person who left this garbage illegally attached to a speed limit sign lives. No points for that one. Now I'm not quite sure how it happened because in my anger I seem to have suffered a bout of amnesia but a few minutes later, that sign had made its way to the dump master at the back of the IGA.

And then there's the usual abuse I cop every time I ride around The Dandenongs and the regular complaints I hear from other cyclists.

Not to mention the reaction from YOUR community regarding the women's ascent challenge held a couple of years back. Yes, BN went a little too far with road closures however the community was given plenty of notice and their general response of threats to cyclists and the throwing of tacks onto the 1/20 sealed it for me. YOUR 'community' has had its say and I've no more time to listen to the crap that comes out of that area anymore.

And maybe you might have read some of the comments from the stupid petition that some turd from up there started to ban cyclists from The Dandenongs. And used a picture of a pro peleton whilst saying it wasn't a 'hate' petition against cyclists. Yeah right. And many of the comments supported that hate. With plenty of threats to injure cyclists.

No one seems to mind the traffic jam CARS cause in Dandenongs every weekend in Olinda and Sassafras though do they, because when cars cause traffic jams, it's okay. Nor does anyone seem to mind the damage to the roads up there that motor vehicles cause. Let's also not mention the last real bush fire threat up that way happened to be a MOTOR VEHICLE that caught fire on the 1/20 on a hot day a couple of years back. But that's tame in comparison to all the cyclists who have spontaneously combusted riding up there. :roll:

YOU and the entire Dandenong Ranges community have plenty of other places YOU can drive your noisy, smoky !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! boxes and plenty of other places to live. Don't like sharing the roads, then you can !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! and stop using the roads.

The entire area mentioned at the beginning of my post should be added to the existing national park and the residents 'moved' on. Not allowed to sell to anyone but the government. Die and the government buys it back from your heirs. A few decades and it'll be done.

The Dandenong Ranges should be restored to its natural state.

If that offends, tough luck because I take offence to people making thinly veiled threats to injure or kill me simply for riding a bicycle on the roads. Something YOUR 'community' does on a regular basis. And BTW, I only picked Melton because it's far away over the other side of the city. Away from me.

So while you ask me why my hatred of your community, I ask you why your community hates cyclists? At least I don't make threats. Yet.

The sad bit is that I know a couple of cyclists that live in The Dandenongs. I've also seen one cyclist who lives up there post somewhere that they were sick and tired of arguing with the nutters (yes, they said 'nutters' or to that effect) and stopped replying to the cyclist hatred on social media. Nice 'community' you have. Must be a great bunch of people. Even sadder is that your community is not alone in this. Far from it.


You have some issues you need to work out. I'm out of this conversation.
Last edited by djw47 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby Cyclophiliac » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:51 pm

djw47 wrote:You have some issues you need to work out. I'm out of this conversation.

BJL made numerous very good points. If you disagree with them, then why not refute them?

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:40 pm

BJL made a number of serious and hurtful personal accusations that I don't believe for a second that djw47 or even the majority of his neighbours are guilty of.

There are bad people around no doubt, both in the hills and in any other community, but that is neither a new nor regional phenomenon.

I disagree with BJL.

Cheers,

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Re: Scenic Crescent in Kalorama planned Burns - Closure for bikes

Postby djw47 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:56 am

Cyclophiliac wrote:
djw47 wrote:You have some issues you need to work out. I'm out of this conversation.

BJL made numerous very good points. If you disagree with them, then why not refute them?


He made a number of sweeping, inaccurate and offensive generalisations that are based on his narrow view/experience. Many of his points were unfounded rants about an entire community that are no more valid for that community than they are for any other community of people you could randomly point to in Victoria, or indeed anywhere. My attempts to refute his points and defend the residents of the Dandenongs from the proposed "shut it down and turn it into a national park" were met with the lengthy, incoherent response above. I don't really get his vitriol and bitterness, we're all cyclists, we all understand the general issues with other road users. To turn that into a wild rant about the area I live in, which in my own experience is actually really good for cycling and generally very accommodating of visitors and cyclists, suggests there is more going on with BJL than just complaints about cycling.
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