MIPS helmets

TeVoRo
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:50 am

MIPS helmets

Postby TeVoRo » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:10 am

Hello,
Love to know everyones opinions on MIPS helmets. Are they worth the extra money?

I'm currently using a basic helmet that came with my bike. I would say around the ~ $30 - $40 mark?
While it does have the Australian Standards safety sticker on it, I sometimes wonder if I do take a tumble, would it provide sufficient protection.

Oh I ride on bicycle paths and the occasional road cycling on a flat bar roadie. + some weekends on MTB trails on a hardtail.

cogs19
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: MIPS helmets

Postby cogs19 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:28 am

TeVoRo wrote:Hello,
Love to know everyones opinions on MIPS helmets. Are they worth the extra money?

I'm currently using a basic helmet that came with my bike. I would say around the ~ $30 - $40 mark?
While it does have the Australian Standards safety sticker on it, I sometimes wonder if I do take a tumble, would it provide sufficient protection.

Oh I ride on bicycle paths and the occasional road cycling on a flat bar roadie. + some weekends on MTB trails on a hardtail.


It's a good question that I would suggest can only be answered if you have an accident and your helmet strikes something with any appreciable force.

I have a MIPS helmet. I like the helmet as it is comfortable and has good coverage - but this would be true even if it was non-MIPS. I suppose you pay for the extra protection afforded by MIPS (if you believe the research). Whether that research is sound or just a veiled marketing ploy to get you to pay more is the question. If you search online there'll be differing views on the value of a MIPS enabled helmet.

I paid extra for MIPS because I do a fair bit of MTBing and have a high-ish risk of coming off. Whether it will make any significant difference I really couldn't say.

human909
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby human909 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:32 pm

TeVoRo wrote:Hello,
Love to know everyones opinions on MIPS helmets. Are they worth the extra money?

I'm currently using a basic helmet that came with my bike. I would say around the ~ $30 - $40 mark?
While it does have the Australian Standards safety sticker on it, I sometimes wonder if I do take a tumble, would it provide sufficient protection.

Oh I ride on bicycle paths and the occasional road cycling on a flat bar roadie. + some weekends on MTB trails on a hardtail.


With no real comparison testing nor anything known about the type of impact it is REALLY hard to say. We have threshold testing of helmets but that is about it.

Helmets vary significantly in strength, protection and behavior. And falls vary too. Eg a full face MTB helmet that is non MIPS vs a road bike MIPS helmet. If you dive jaw first into a rock I know which one I would want. Plenty of non MIPs hipster type helmets with more solid outer may also offer better protection some types of impacts against a roadie helmet that is more holes than foam.

Short of comprehensive testing from multiple types of impacts (like car impact testing) it is mostly just guess work.


Also to note that MIPS is a propriety and licenced name. Other helmets may offer the same or better multi-directional protection without being called 'MIPS'.

human909
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby human909 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:48 pm

For those of us who want the best protection good and clear information about a helmet's performance would be ideal. I have yet to see much of this.

But there is some testing here, though it would be nice to see some more rigorously written up testing.
https://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopn ... han-others

MIPS helmets are in the top ranks....

Calvin27
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:59 pm

TeVoRo wrote:Love to know everyones opinions on MIPS helmets. Are they worth the extra money?


I've had the unfortunate pleasure of breaking 3 helmets. Helmet 1 was a $50 bell cheapie, helmet 2 was a $120 lazer, helmet 3 is a high end kask. None of them are MIPs but they all saved my head and the foam split in all of them taking the load. Head had zero injuries but the neck and other bits copped it fairly bad in 2 of the crashes.

My current helmets consist of a mtb non-mips and a road bike mips. Comfort wise, the mips is nice as it offers some rotation but it does get stuffy in the heat.
General consensus is all helmets do a good job of protecting you in most cases the more you pay, the more holes you get - simple as that.
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Jmuzz
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:03 pm

I think it's just a gimmick, though the internal plastic cage is the better design for manufacturing anyway and was being done before "MIPS" trademark marketing.

I think it is mostly just a good marketing drive to turn a basic design feature which any $10 helmet can have into an overhyped trademark.

The concept is just that it allows the helmet foam to slip around more, which means less torsional forces at some angles.

However put your hand on top of scalp now and move skin around, it already has movement right?
Bicycle helmets are also soft foam and very thin plastic which will rip apart before the twisting forces to your scalp will be significant.

By all means get a MIPS logo helmet, it will probably be the best fitting most comfortable one. But wouldn't be replacing perfectly good helmets just to have it.

Jmuzz
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:08 pm

Calvin27 wrote:General consensus is all helmets do a good job of protecting you in most cases the more you pay, the more holes you get - simple as that.


Yep and big holes are what add the cost. Because big holes need reinforcement inside the foam to add strength because thin struts of foam are too weak. They can also need multiple foam densities since foam in a thin strut needs to offer the same compression as 10x the foam in a holeless section.

Big holes are great in out summer climate though and make helmets much more comfortable.
A bit too cool in winter, but can adjust heat with a cap or over cover.

human909
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby human909 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:05 pm

Jmuzz wrote:I think it's just a gimmick, though the internal plastic cage is the better design for manufacturing anyway and was being done before "MIPS" trademark marketing.

I think it is mostly just a good marketing drive to turn a basic design feature which any $10 helmet can have into an overhyped trademark.

The concept is just that it allows the helmet foam to slip around more, which means less torsional forces at some angles.

However put your hand on top of scalp now and move skin around, it already has movement right?
Bicycle helmets are also soft foam and very thin plastic which will rip apart before the twisting forces to your scalp will be significant.

By all means get a MIPS logo helmet, it will probably be the best fitting most comfortable one. But wouldn't be replacing perfectly good helmets just to have it.


I agree with your comments regarding marketing. But I'm not sure about your other comments regarding torsional forces. I believe there is a decent amount of legitimate academic research showing the dangers of torsional forces during head impacts. That said has any research been done into the relative risk likelihood of those torsional forces in a real impact? I'm not sure.

But like yourself I'm not about to grab myself a fancy 'MIPS' helmet. My regular one serves it's primary purpose as a fine protection device perfectly. :twisted:

Calvin27
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:15 pm

human909 wrote:That said has any research been done into the relative risk likelihood of those torsional forces in a real impact? I'm not sure.

But like yourself I'm not about to grab myself a fancy 'MIPS' helmet. My regular one serves it's primary purpose as a fine protection device perfectly. :twisted:


I did a bit of research into this is some detail and concluded that the benefits are there, but hardly groundbreaking. As a result, I'd go MIPS if it were available, even at a slight premium, but would not go out of my way or discount a helmet simply because it doesn't have MIPS. Number 1 factor for me is still how the thing feels on my head.
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human909
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby human909 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:57 pm

The marketing technological breakthrough seems to have recently spread to my favourite past time.

https://www.sporttechie.com/mammut-laun ... l-impacts/

Image

That helmet looks pretty impractical for my needs. But hey it is MIPS! :mrgreen: :roll:

(Most climbing helmets are built to be a fair bit more durable than that. That thing barely looks like it would survive transport into many destinations. Plus many of the associated sports can be a bit more rough on your helmet.)

TeVoRo
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby TeVoRo » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:21 pm

Lots of good points!

So... that said, does that mean a $20 KMart helmet is sufficient for a casual cyclist?
No need to get a $100 helmet.


Calvin27 wrote:I've had the unfortunate pleasure of breaking 3 helmets. Helmet 1 was a $50 bell cheapie, helmet 2 was a $120 lazer, helmet 3 is a high end kask. None of them are MIPs but they all saved my head and the foam split in all of them taking the load. Head had zero injuries but the neck and other bits copped it fairly bad in 2 of the crashes.

Mate, lucky you were not seriously injured in those falls!

Calvin27
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:00 pm

TeVoRo wrote:Lots of good points!

So... that said, does that mean a $20 KMart helmet is sufficient for a casual cyclist?
No need to get a $100 helmet.


Calvin27 wrote:I've had the unfortunate pleasure of breaking 3 helmets. Helmet 1 was a $50 bell cheapie, helmet 2 was a $120 lazer, helmet 3 is a high end kask. None of them are MIPs but they all saved my head and the foam split in all of them taking the load. Head had zero injuries but the neck and other bits copped it fairly bad in 2 of the crashes.

Mate, lucky you were not seriously injured in those falls!


Dude, I get seriously stuffed up two of those falls - about 3 months off 'real' riding. My head was ok though. Funny thing is the $50 helmet was a head dive after the mtb gave out straight into an arrow shaped rock (you can't make this stuff up) split the helmet but head was ok.
Fast light bike
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Workhorse bike
No brakes bike
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human909
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:39 am

TeVoRo wrote:Lots of good points!

So... that said, does that mean a $20 KMart helmet is sufficient for a casual cyclist?
No need to get a $100 helmet.

Yes pretty much, if it is comfortable and fits your other needs. Ask yourself what your risk profile is and what sort of riding you will be doing. There is a big difference between cruising around the inner city or around bike paths and road cycling at 35kph (or MTBing). For me whatever is comfortable and cheap. I'll save my money for stuff with more tangible benefits.

-Remember your best protection is not taking a tumble.
-Second best is knowing how to tumble and not hit your head.
-Your helmet (and your skull) is your last line of defense if you don't achieve the previous to points.

I wear helmets in many of my sporting activities and I have never had a head strike or broken one in a fall. (Including a ~7m rock climbing fall where I inverted :shock: Damn glad to be wearing a helmet in that fall, but my natural instinct to tuck and protect my head meant no head strike, if I had rag dolled then it would absolutely have been a rear head strike.)

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Mububban
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Re: MIPS helmets

Postby Mububban » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:11 pm

TeVoRo wrote:Lots of good points!

So... that said, does that mean a $20 KMart helmet is sufficient for a casual cyclist?
No need to get a $100 helmet.



Any helmet sold in Australia must comply with minimum safety standards so yeah, a $20 helmet from K-Mart will protect your head to minimum standards.
What you get for more money is:

- more stylish
- more comfortable/much better fit
- better ventilation
- more research and development to give you even better protection than the minimum required

I needed a replacement road helmet after getting hit by a car and my head hitting the pavement. The current model of the helmet I needed to replace now has MIPS, so I got it. After getting concussion, and for the same price as the first gen with no MIPS, why not try it out?
Well, hopefully I'll never prove the effectiveness of MIPS because my head won't hit the ground again :D
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