BianchiCam's Open Letter

Scott_C
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 am
Location: Perth, WA

BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Scott_C » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:31 pm

https://www.news.com.au/national/queens ... b9c241080c

THIS is the full text of Queensland cycling advocate Cameron Frewer’s open letter penned just days before he was tragically killed in an accident.

It outlines his frustration with Queensland police’s enforcement of the 1m passing law for motorists.

It is my opinion that if anything is going to shift police attitudes to enforcement of the 1m passing law it is this letter and I encourage all cycling advocates, particularly those in Queensland, to raise the matter with the appropriate parties and not let them ignore Cam's legacy.

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Cycleops70 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:44 pm

Scott_C wrote: if anything is going to shift police attitudes to enforcement of the 1m passing law it is this letter



Apparently it's shifting a little already.
To little too late really.

"The Queensland Police Service have announced that they will reinvestigate all of Cameron Frewer's submitted close pass complaints"

Like Cameron, I also keep records of my reports & the lack of police response.
This week I felt the need to let my wife know where to find it, if anything happened to me :-(

Philistine
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:57 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Philistine » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:56 pm

BianchiCam used to post his close passes and the police reaction to them on the "moron motorist" thread. I remember the horse box incident particularly vividly because of the mind-boggling excuse offered by the driver. On a previous journey he had had to brake sharply and one of his horses had been injured, and this should give him a free pass to drive dangerously on this occasion. Apparently the (so-called) police officers agreed with him. Well why wouldn't they? Much better to put a cyclist in harms way than risk hurting a valuable horse.

I am dismayed that some of these police officers still have their jobs. Perhaps they won't have them once the coroner has examined all of the circumstances surrounding this tragedy.

User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 19237
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney
Contact:

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:01 pm

His videos are in his channel on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2MER03o-qVtml6iAeh7Xvw
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

human909
Posts: 9064
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby human909 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:37 pm

Great letter, terrible the tragedy of his last ride.

We can only hope that this shine a strong and powerful spotlight on the police behaviour towards cyclists in QLD and the rest of Australia. Sad though that it takes a tragedy to do so.

jasonc
Posts: 9871
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby jasonc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:16 am

Cycleops70 wrote:Like Cameron, I also keep records of my reports & the lack of police response.
This week I felt the need to let my wife know where to find it, if anything happened to me :-(

I've provided BQ with a copy of my spreadsheet. I had shared it with Cam previously :'(
Image

Philistine
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:57 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Philistine » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:46 am

I have had a rear mounting rear facing Fly-6 on my road bike for the past eight months. I was prompted to buy it as a result of the posts that BianchiCam and others submitted to the moron motorist thread, concerning their frequent close passes. Since I fitted it, I have experienced literally hundreds of illegal (in my opinion) close passes, but I have not hitherto made any complaints to the police. There have been perhaps six or seven incidents where I felt threatened by the close pass and resolved to make a complaint, but, in each case, once I cooled off, I failed to follow through.

Most of my close passes (but only one of the worst ones) have been on the M5 Motorway, where the mandated clearance is 1.5 metres. When I examine my Fly-6 footage, I observe that the overwhelming majority of drivers approaching in the adjacent lane actually move towards the far side of the lane (away from me). For many of them, this action does not put them 1.5 metres away, but they are making an effort and I do not feel threatened when they pass!

A tiny proportion (perhaps 1 or 2%) do not deviate a millimetre from their original path, and one cretin close passed me then eased his near side wheels on to the breakdown strip in an obvious act of intimidation. This was the only M5 incident that I considered reporting, but I needed a front facing camera to capture it properly.

Up to now I have proceeded on a "no harm no foul" basis, and I have come to realize that this is wrong. If a driver has the mindset that a close pass is acceptable so long as he does not actually strike the cyclist then he will routinely close pass until the day his judgment is slightly off and the cyclist is hit. If he has the mindset that any act of close passing could result in a penalty - even the ones he judges to be "safe" - then he will keep his distance. Any thoughts?

jasonc
Posts: 9871
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby jasonc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:53 am

Phillistine- only takes a few to get fined for the behaviour for it to change. They then pass it on to their friends. All of a sudden you have had a cultural shift. If I remember the incident after the ride, it's worth reporting. You can ask for the driver to be warned rather than fined....
Image

Tamiya
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 12:15 am

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Tamiya » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:11 pm

mikesbytes wrote:His videos are in his channel on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2MER03o-qVtml6iAeh7Xvw


Not wanting to speak ill of fallen comrades, but appears that many of those videos are on single lane roads with a DOUBLE WHITE LINE... which if I can recall my Highway Code learnings, shouldn't never ever be crossed.

All the "good" drivers being exampled for crossing over the Double White with one or both pairs of wheels... aren't they still breaking the road rules?

By waving them on, to cross double white to allow safe distance, could be considered incitement..? :|

jasonc
Posts: 9871
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby jasonc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:30 pm

Tamiya wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:His videos are in his channel on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2MER03o-qVtml6iAeh7Xvw


Not wanting to speak ill of fallen comrades, but appears that many of those videos are on single lane roads with a DOUBLE WHITE LINE... which if I can recall my Highway Code learnings, shouldn't never ever be crossed.

All the "good" drivers being exampled for crossing over the Double White with one or both pairs of wheels... aren't they still breaking the road rules?

By waving them on, to cross double white to allow safe distance, could be considered incitement..? :|


https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety ... r/cyclists

Crossing lines to pass a bicycle rider
To pass a bicycle rider—as long as it is safe to do so—you are allowed to:

drive over centre lines (including double unbroken centre lines) on a 2-way road
straddle or cross a lane line (including a continuous lane line) on a multi-lane road
drive on a painted island.
If it is not safe to pass a bicycle rider, you must wait until it is safe to pass
Image

Usernoname
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Usernoname » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:35 pm

Tamiya wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:His videos are in his channel on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2MER03o-qVtml6iAeh7Xvw


Not wanting to speak ill of fallen comrades, but appears that many of those videos are on single lane roads with a DOUBLE WHITE LINE... which if I can recall my Highway Code learnings, shouldn't never ever be crossed.

All the "good" drivers being exampled for crossing over the Double White with one or both pairs of wheels... aren't they still breaking the road rules?

By waving them on, to cross double white to allow safe distance, could be considered incitement..? :|

Your post shows why we education and enforcement - If you have a driver's licence it's time for you to brush up on the CURRENT road rules.
Crossing lines to pass a bicycle rider
To pass a bicycle rider—as long as it is safe to do so—you are allowed to:

drive over centre lines (including double unbroken centre lines) on a 2-way road
straddle or cross a lane line (including a continuous lane line) on a multi-lane road
drive on a painted island.
If it is not safe to pass a bicycle rider, you must wait until it is safe to pass.

march83
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby march83 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:49 pm

Same applies in NSW: https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au ... /faqs.html

Drivers will be exempt from the following rules, as long as they have a clear view of approaching traffic and it is safe to pass the bicycle rider to comply with the minimum passing distance rule:

Keep to the left of the centre of the road (two-way road with no dividing line)
Keep to the left of the centre of a dividing line - broken and unbroken lines
Keep off a flat dividing strip i.e. one that is at the same level as the road
Keep off a flat painted island
Driving within a single marked lane or line of traffic, including at roundabouts
Moving from one marked lane to another across a continuous line separating the lanes.
Image

jasonc
Posts: 9871
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby jasonc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:56 pm

march83 wrote:Same applies in NSW:

It's everywhere except Vic
Image

Tamiya
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 12:15 am

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Tamiya » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:06 pm

jasonc wrote:
march83 wrote:Same applies in NSW:

It's everywhere except Vic


yup my bikes are down south mexican :lol: heck I gotta have kids to ride on walk path :evil:

plus it's unKool, nay it's unAustralian!! to go restudy roadrules except on the night before your theory test, innit? Nerds & geeks excepted.

User avatar
kb
Posts: 2467
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby kb » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:21 pm

Tamiya wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:His videos are in his channel on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2MER03o-qVtml6iAeh7Xvw


Not wanting to speak ill of fallen comrades, but appears that many of those videos are on single lane roads with a DOUBLE WHITE LINE... which if I can recall my Highway Code learnings, shouldn't never ever be crossed.
...

The great thing about law is you can look it up rather than relying on memory.
Image

Arbuckle23
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:07 pm
Location: Mornington Peninsula

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Arbuckle23 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:20 pm

jasonc wrote:It's everywhere except Vic

Out with my son teaching him to drive this afternoon ( late starter :) ) and this came up as we were passing a bike rider.
I pointed out that we were backward in not having that rule, but do it anyway to make sure plenty of room given.

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13217
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby trailgumby » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:36 pm

Philistine wrote:Up to now I have proceeded on a "no harm no foul" basis, and I have come to realize that this is wrong. If a driver has the mindset that a close pass is acceptable so long as he does not actually strike the cyclist then he will routinely close pass until the day his judgment is slightly off and the cyclist is hit. If he has the mindset that any act of close passing could result in a penalty - even the ones he judges to be "safe" - then he will keep his distance. Any thoughts?


Take a look here:

http://www.simplycyclingtraining.com/ca ... forcement/

Image

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 9916
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby g-boaf » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:37 pm

Cycleops70 wrote:
Scott_C wrote: if anything is going to shift police attitudes to enforcement of the 1m passing law it is this letter



Apparently it's shifting a little already.
To little too late really.

"The Queensland Police Service have announced that they will reinvestigate all of Cameron Frewer's submitted close pass complaints"

Like Cameron, I also keep records of my reports & the lack of police response.
This week I felt the need to let my wife know where to find it, if anything happened to me :-(


Why did he have to die for that to happen! :cry:

I'm going to forward this on to the two local MPs, it might not achieve much but I'll try.

fat and old
Posts: 3706
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby fat and old » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:17 am

Philistine wrote:Up to now I have proceeded on a "no harm no foul" basis, and I have come to realize that this is wrong. If a driver has the mindset that a close pass is acceptable so long as he does not actually strike the cyclist then he will routinely close pass until the day his judgment is slightly off and the cyclist is hit. If he has the mindset that any act of close passing could result in a penalty - even the ones he judges to be "safe" - then he will keep his distance. Any thoughts?


It doesn't have to be his judgement that's off. Driver may well be 30cm away from handlebars when cyclist moves out to miss a grate or pothole or whatever. This happens in a split second at 60km/h. There is some truth in drivers claiming "cyclists wobble about". Therefore they need to be further out...1m for instance :wink: .....to allow for this behaviour. After all, read any hate page and it's clear that all drivers know this about cyclists already.

Philistine
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:57 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Philistine » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:04 am

fat and old wrote: .....it's clear that all drivers know this about cyclists already.


All drivers should also know that it is dangerous to close pass a cyclist, regardless of what their state laws require (shame Victoria!). I am heartily sick of reading about drivers who attempt to excuse their negligence (or worse) by claiming that they "didn't know the law". Apart from the obvious fact that ignorance of the law is seldom a persuasive defence, except when offered to the various Sunshine Coast police commands, any driver with an IQ above single figures should be capable of working out that you need to give vulnerable road users (motor cyclists and pedestrians too) sufficient room. You should not require a formal minimal passing distance law, or a programme of "education" to confirm what is (or ought to be) blindingly obvious. The real purpose of the MPD laws is to put a number on what constitutes "sufficient room".

Scintilla
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Scintilla » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:42 am

Vicroads has announced a new logo for future Victorian motor vehicle number plates:

Victoria - the Pariah State

User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 19237
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney
Contact:

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:02 pm

The problem with not having a defined metric such as the 1/1.5 metres is that the definition of unsafe pass becomes subjective. I can't remember who it was but I may of being one of the members who lives in Newcastle NSW. That member submitted a video of a close pass where he was also effectively cut off along with photos and measurements and it wasn't considered a dangerous pass. The conclusion was that you had to be actually hit to be considered a close pass by the authorities prior to the 1/1/5 metre law in NSW. The issue since the passing of the law is getting the authorities to act on it. In NSW there are more winner of Lotto than there are close pass tickets issued
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:29 pm

Like Cameron, I have experienced resistance for police here in WA to take dangerous driving around cyclists seriously. Sometimes hiding behind technicalities, or just using avoidance (pretending not to be able to look up details, or just refusing to respond).

My most recent experience is to refuse to tell me what action they have taken (I suspect none, as no one took a statement or viewed video footage), and then mess me about, but avoiding my questions or not responding.

So I'd been considering writing to the Police minister.
While out on my ride yesterday, I mulled it over & concluded that I felt strongly that the Qld police are culpable in Cameron's death & that WA police are no different.
I too feel it is an inevitability that I will be hit.

So when I got home I started writing.

Below is my letter to the Hon Michelle Roberts.

I am posting this here, as I hope enough people feel as angry as I do about the situation, & use this as inspiration to write to you own police minister (hopefully Michelle Roberts, as I'd like to see a change).

Dear Hon Michelle Roberts,

I am writing to you regarding my concerns of the WAPOL reluctance to enforce the minimum passing distance law for cyclists.

But first I would like to tell you about a friend of mine, Cameron Frewer.

Cameron lived on the Sunshine Coast. But we had a lot in common. We both enjoyed riding bikes. Neither of us belonged to clubs or ‘trained’, we rode on our own, for our health & enjoyment. We used roads that would avoid conflict with drivers outside of peak times.

We also recorded our rides with cameras & submitted many reports of dangerous driving to our respective police forces.
And we both were met with many excuses of why the police would not take action.
Cameron was a strong & vocal cycling safety campaigner, but very concerned that the lack of support from police put him at risk on the road, & he feared that he would eventually be hit by a driver.

Cameron was right to feel this way, just as I am. Last week (5th Nov) Cameron was hit and killed by a driver. Cameron’s wife & 3 children are destroyed. His son celebrated his 15th birthday just the day before.

Before Cameron’s death, he was drafting an open letter to Police Minister Mark Ryan, Transport Minister Mark Bailey, Police Commissioner Ian Stewart , documenting his attempts to get his local police to take his concerns seriously (attached).

Since his death. The police have announced that they will review Cameron’s submissions. This of course is too little too late.

From my own experiences with WAPOL, I have been told that they will take no action unless I am hit.
If we only ever take reactive steps (when I am already under the wheels of a car) and not proactive steps before it gets to that point, we will never have an effect on the fatality rate on our roads, which is shameful.

This is in stark contrast to many UK police forces who conduct operations with unmarked police riders, & educate drivers on the spot.

We have an appalling road safety record here in Australia. If there were an Australian industry that killed around 4 people every day, there would be outcry.
We would have new legislation by the end of the week, and constant enforcement, & assessment.
Yet when it comes to our roads, we treat the death of people as the acceptable consequence of our convenience of driving.

I’d like to give some examples of my own reports & responses from police;

Ref; 191015 2022 86302
18/10/2015
Footage; https://youtu.be/y9JgNOXcmNc
100kph road, lots of space, nothing coming the other way.
Response; “The driver did not collide with you, please be cautions, as drivers might not see you” no action.

Ref; 030716 1404 85866.
3/07/2016
Footage; https://youtu.be/y3Oqg4yTkVY (language)
The driver lined me up & brushed my elbow at 80Kph
Response; Officer Patton of Wanneroo police attributed this to being my fault as I was in their way & “should have been further left”.

Ref; 260116121686302
26/01/2016
Footage; https://youtu.be/aXC81NwjweI
The driver of a truck pulled alongside, indicated left & squeezed me to the kerb.
Response via voice message; “We spoke to the driver, he believed he gave you enough room, so the matter has been dealt with.”
I tried for several weeks to get in contact with the officer , but they refused to return my calls.

Ref; 211018141288862
21/10/2018
Footage; https://youtu.be/xWMElna2ri8
Driver shaves my elbow.
Response; I received a call from Bayswater police, who said “we spoke to the driver & the matter has been dealt with”.
They would not tell me what action had been taken or what “dealt with: meant. I was told I would have to submit a FOI.
This has not been the case before, so & queried it.
The response was. “yes you can submit an FOI”. Which was not what I asked. & would not respond to my email.
I have submitted, another query, but this has not had a response.
No one took a statement, and no one viewed the video.

Of course this is just a fraction of the responses I have received. The vast majority of reports get no response at all.
I know I am not alone in the way these reports are dismissed, as I communicate with many other riders here in WA & around Australia, who have identical stories to tell.

So like Cameron, I feel that WAPOL do not take dangerous driving around cyclists seriously, and I too fear for my safety on the road.
This week, Cameron’s death prompted me to show my wife where I keep the records of my reports. Should anything happen to me, these can be made public.

So I urge you to use your position as the minister for the WA Police Force to change this indifference to cyclists safety on the roads, before either myself or others become another statistic on the RSC website. You have an opportunity to make this difference.

What I will not accept is a generic response of ‘we take the safety of vulnerable road users seriously’. As currently, this is quite evidently not the case.

Regards,

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7967
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby find_bruce » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:50 pm

mikesbytes wrote:The problem with not having a defined metric such as the 1/1.5 metres is that the definition of unsafe pass becomes subjective. I can't remember who it was but I may of being one of the members who lives in Newcastle NSW. That member submitted a video of a close pass where he was also effectively cut off along with photos and measurements and it wasn't considered a dangerous pass. The conclusion was that you had to be actually hit to be considered a close pass by the authorities prior to the 1/1/5 metre law in NSW. The issue since the passing of the law is getting the authorities to act on it. In NSW there are more winner of Lotto than there are close pass tickets issued

I have a letter from my local Police area command confirming that no hit no foul & that a safe pass can be measured by a coat of paint - it was that letter that convinced me to support the 1/1.5 m laws.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 9916
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: BianchiCam's Open Letter

Postby g-boaf » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:35 pm

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 0cec1cf099

Let's see what happens out of this investigation.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cyclophiliac, human909