Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

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redsonic
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Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby redsonic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:42 pm

Mark Renshaw has a fractured pelvis after colliding with a car on a roundabout on a training ride near Bathurst:

Cycling News

Sounds like Dimension Data have run over a few black cats lately...

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby biker jk » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:15 pm

"colliding with a car"...He was hit by a car.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby redsonic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:21 pm

biker jk wrote:"colliding with a car"...He was hit by a car.


Well, he actually described the accident as him hitting the front right of the car, so I thought colliding was more accurate. I know, it is a word over-used in the media descriptions of car-on-bike crashes, but Renshaw himself says
...I hit the front right of the car...
so I thought the word collision was appropriate, especially where blame has not been determined.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby biker jk » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:31 pm

redsonic wrote:
biker jk wrote:"colliding with a car"...He was hit by a car.


Well, he actually described the accident as him hitting the front right of the car, so I thought colliding was more accurate. I know, it is a word over-used in the media descriptions of car-on-bike crashes, but Renshaw himself says
...I hit the front right of the car...
so I thought the word collision was appropriate, especially where blame has not been determined.


You could have provided the full quote where Renshaw does blame the driver,

I was heading back out on the road for the final two hours of my five-hour training ride and as I entered the roundabout the car looked like it was going to stop, I assume the driver didn’t see me...

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby human909 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:07 pm

It is subtle semantics, understandable that redsonic posted what he did and I don't think it should be held against him.

It is interesting though the subtle but still significant differences in the potential phrasing:
-Mark Renshaw injured after colliding with a car. (Subtle implication is Renshaw did the collision, and is at fault.)
-Mark Renshaw is injured in a collision with a car. (less emphasis on fault)

My formal grammar is terrible, please correct me if I'm wrong but the slight difference comes from the active voice vs passive voice. Identifying the subject (Mark Renshaw) and associating the activity (a collision) subtly leads the reader to fault.
(Again, please correct me or confirm if I'm at all correct here. My core understanding of grammar is appalling.)

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby biker jk » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:19 pm

The Cycling News story headline is Renshaw fractures pelvis after being hit by car.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby redsonic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:14 pm

biker jk wrote:The Cycling News story headline is Renshaw fractures pelvis after being hit by car.

And the title of this post says the same thing....

I just think that we have to be careful ascribing blame, even if it looks pretty obvious the car to his left in the roundabout failed to give way. My money is on the car being at fault. But. It is possible, for example, that the car entered the roundabout first and was travelling slower than Mark.
as I entered the roundabout the car looked like it was going to stop
The timing here is a matter of judgement and interpretation

I should have used the passive terminology Human suggested.
Thusly:
"Mark Renshaw has a fractured pelvis following a collision with a car on a roundabout whilst on a training ride near Bathurst"
Would that read better for you JK?

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby fat and old » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:26 pm

If he hit the front right of the car and went over the bonnet he was in the wrong. No other way to describe it. Bummer for him.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby biker jk » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:41 pm

fat and old wrote:If he hit the front right of the car and went over the bonnet he was in the wrong. No other way to describe it. Bummer for him.


Even if he entered the roundabout first?

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:56 pm

fat and old wrote:If he hit the front right of the car and went over the bonnet he was in the wrong. No other way to describe it. Bummer for him.


I'd agree if he hit the front left. But if he hit the front right, then he was on the car's right, so I'd say he was already in the roundabout and the driver didn't give way to their right / vehicle already in the roundabout. Also, Renshaw's words are, "as I entered the roundabout the car looked like it was going to stop" which to me says that he entered the roundabout first, because obviously he was not expecting the car to stop once it was in the roundabout.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby cyclotaur » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:41 pm

fat and old wrote:If he hit the front right of the car and went over the bonnet he was in the wrong. No other way to describe it. Bummer for him.

Incorrect. Vehicles entering a roundabout must give way to those already in it, and in Australia those already in the roundabout come from the right. :wink:
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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:28 pm

Let's wait and see - for a pro who is out on the road more than most of us, it can also be treated as a hurdle (you can't turn back time) with the focus on recovering and moving forward.

This shouldn't be misinterpreted as diminishing fault / liability, rather is about whether an athlete will allocate more attention than necessary to the part that they can't change. In this respect, I would expect that we won't see too many details and may hear small snippets from police reports or a result in due time.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby fat and old » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:43 am

cyclotaur wrote:
fat and old wrote:If he hit the front right of the car and went over the bonnet he was in the wrong. No other way to describe it. Bummer for him.

Incorrect. Vehicles entering a roundabout must give way to those already in it, and in Australia those already in the roundabout come from the right. :wink:


Yeah, fair point. But how do you hit the front right? I'd assumed it was a typo. If he was somehow hit with the front right and went over the bonnet it was a magical performance. And if he was in first, then it was either a real big roundabout or he wasn't at training speed.

Dunno, too many unknowns.

Edit...brain just kicked in. :lol: I can see it now. He was at training speed, and car typically thought....just a bike, I can beat him easy. My apologies, I'll retract that earlier statement now. Guess I need a yearly license test aye? :lol:

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby caneye » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:52 am

you don't have to be training at speed for this to occur.
during my daily commute, i often come across drivers who totally miss me on the roundabout. i'm already in the roundabout and they're entering at 9 o'clock. because they're focussed on the traffic ahead of them (traffic is banked up on the other side), they don't concentrate on cars coming in from their right, much less a bike!
to me, if i were to get hit on the roundabout, it will almost certainly be the front right of the car.

don't mean to hijack this thread, but for the purpose of discussion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJijkF815dw

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:04 am

caneye wrote:you don't have to be training at speed for this to occur.
during my daily commute, i often come across drivers who totally miss me on the roundabout. i'm already in the roundabout and they're entering at 9 o'clock. because they're focussed on the traffic ahead of them (traffic is banked up on the other side), they don't concentrate on cars coming in from their right, much less a bike!
to me, if i were to get hit on the roundabout, it will almost certainly be the front right of the car.

I agree with all of that.

caneye wrote:don't mean to hijack this thread, but for the purpose of discussion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJijkF815dw


If you'd hit that car at 0:17 in that video, it would have been on their right side; and it would have been their fault despite you crashing into them.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby K2 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:52 pm

caneye wrote:you don't have to be training at speed for this to occur.
<snip>


Certainly don't. They just might not see you, for whatever reason.

I got taken out on this one a couple of years ago. Entered from right in that shot doing low 20s. Had noticed a dark SUV approaching on Murrays Rd which came to a "virtual" stop roughly about where that lower white car is as I came round in the left lane, almost on the white lane line. I made the mistake of taking my eye off the vehicle to look ahead at the Nujooloo Rd exit as it's a bit rough and there's often a bit of debris to avoid. Next thing my vision is filled with darkness coming from the left. I instinctively turn the wheel to my right, and then sense things going vertical.

I woke up lying on my back pretty much where the white car on the roundabout is with my bike over toward that blue car. Didn't realize I'd been unconscious until that night when I tried to record what had happened. Guess my head contacted the A pillar. Thanks helmet. I'd been out long enough for another gent to arrive, park in that dark area to the left, walk onto the middle of the roundabout, call for ambos [they were already on the way], and be continuing to tell the operator what was going on once I started moving [they keep you on the line these days]...so at least a few minutes.

This occurred just after sun up on a Saturday, with my lights on, and the only other traffic being two vehicles approaching from Nujooloo Rd [ie the opposite side and of no concern to either of us]. The young lady was as stunned as me and nice as pie [arranged for her hubby to transport me home] and just hadn't seen me...even though her driving behaviour lead me to believe she had. Go figure.

A fraction of a second either way and I could easily have been in front of it :cry: or hitting its front right flush and going over the bars.

Result = Slight wobble to front wheel, torn bar tape, a few fresh small scrapes and a hole in the saddle, all attended to at the LBS [wanted the head tube/fork etc checked out properly before riding it again] rather cheaply and covered very willingly by the nice young couple. Stupidly I did that man thing and thought I'd just walk it off despite pains just about everywhere. Turns out the bike must have gone vertical as I dropped off the back onto my tailbone [leaving a perfect impression of the padding in my knicks that was still there hours later], and spent half the day visiting the doc and getting x-rays after the shock wore off and the Mrs convinced me of my silliness. Still have fluctuating lower back/hip pain but that's probably the grim reaper getting closer as much as anything.

In the two years since I've had to come to a track stand on a handful of occasions on the same roundabout and the next big one up near IKEA to avoid traffic coming from the left whilst out early doors on weekends when there's usually nothing else around. Some stopped. Some didn't. :x One recently decided to unload all his pent up anti-cyclist problems on me...just after 4:30am [I'm guessing he burnt his toast :? ]...after I'd stopped for him!

Lesson learnt = Let the ambos take you and worry about what happens to your bike later. Not sure I could have done much differently. I was going to say never take your eyes off them, but you have to make assumptions on the road and there's not much you can do if someone stopped decides to accelerate into or across you. Same as you have to assume that other drivers can stay in their lane, not rear end you whilst you are stopped, etc.

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Re: Mark Renshaw hit by car while training, will be off bike for months

Postby gorilla monsoon » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:03 am

fat and old wrote:If he hit the front right of the car and went over the bonnet he was in the wrong. No other way to describe it. Bummer for him.



Possibly not. The driver is required to "give way to all traffic on the roundabout" (I think that's how it is written) so if Renshaw was on the roundabout and the driver entered the roundabout he (the driver) was at fault. Damage to the right side of a vehicle usually means that driver failed to give way to his/her right.
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