Moron Motorists #3

[AdelaidePeter]

Though I still think it's often poor planning to put the bicycle lane along a road with (non-indented) bus stops.

Yet this happens all the time with regular roads. Traffic has to deal with buses stopping, I'm not sure why cyclists should be an exception.

For an existing road with a bus route, how else are you suggesting bike lanes should be put in? (Sure an ideal solution would be total separation but realistically that is not achievable in Australia at the moment.)

I was thinking that, ideally, bicycle routes should be on roads which are not bus routes. (Which isn't to say that the cyclists can't use the bus routes, just that there should be alternatives especially for less confident riders). Looking at the map, I see that's not really feasible in this particular situation (or perhaps even in most situations).

[human909]

I was thinking that, ideally, bicycle routes should be on roads which are not bus routes. (Which isn't to say that the cyclists can't use the bus routes, just that there should be alternatives especially for less confident riders).

International and local experience doesn't indicate this. Major thoroughfares exist for a reason and provision for most/all transport types is normally ideal. Cutting out buses or cyclists from consideration in major thoroughfares is simply not equitable, practical or safe.

Sure sometimes parallel bicycle routes can be preferable if they meet the needs of cyclists but for multiple reasons they often don't. Likewise a parallel route should negate the need for providing safe cycling infrastructure on nearby roads. A clear example of this that is local to me is Sydney Road and the Upfield Bikepath in Brunswick. 100m apart and parallel, but for multiple reasons it is not practical to assume all cyclists will use the Upfield bike path.

[CaffeineAU]

I remember visiting Aix-en-Provence in France when I was an exchange student many years ago, the locals were most upset as new bus lanes had been added, but they were further to the centre of the road than the normal car lanes. Every bus, in order to make or leave a stop, had to cross over at least 1 lane of car traffic...

Edit: They appear to have come to their senses now (or some time in the 25 years since I was there)

https://goo.gl/maps/EMRSjPjHouB2

[AdelaidePeter]

Sure sometimes parallel bicycle routes can be preferable if they meet the needs of cyclists but for multiple reasons they often don't. Likewise a parallel route should negate the need for providing safe cycling infrastructure on nearby roads. A clear example of this that is local to me is Sydney Road and the Upfield Bikepath in Brunswick. 100m apart and parallel, but for multiple reasons it is not practical to assume all cyclists will use the Upfield bike path.

To me that's just about a text book example of a road which should not called be a bicycle route! But we're drifting off topic. I might take it up again in a different thread when I have more time.

[Thoglette]

Retrogrouch reports in Ethical Conundrums that
* Teslas keeps crashing (per the manual)
* MB has chosen to proritise the driver over other road users.

The latter should not be surprising after an MB car decided to "brake test" some cyclists.

Have Mercedes Benz been hiring people from the VW engine management group or something?

[AdelaidePeter]

Retrogrouch reports in Ethical Conundrums
that
* Tesla keeps crashing (per the manual)
* MB has chosen to proritise the driver over anyone else.

The latter should not be surprising after an MB car decided to "brake test" some cyclists.

Have they been hiring people from the VW engine management unit or something?

I'm much more optimistic. Yes self-driving cars aren't great now, but in X years they'll be better than most humans, though I'm not sure if X is more like 5 or 30.

I also think that these hypotheticals, when the computer has to choose the life of its passengers over the life of a 3rd party cyclist/pedestrian/other driver, will be extremely rare. So rare that 3rd party deaths caused by them will be far, far less than 3rd party deaths caused these days by human drivers.

[human909]

To me that's just about a text book example of a road which should not called be a bicycle route! But we're drifting off topic. I might take it up again in a different thread when I have more time.

That is an odd claim. Considering:

In peak: "Sydney Road in Coburg has the slowest off-peak traffic in Melbourne, averaging 9km/h between Harding Street and Bell Street."

Bike route? Call it whatever you want. Cyclists want to ride to get to their destination. If their destination is on that road how else are they to get there? Are you seriously suggesting on this forum that safety provisions for cyclists should not be provide in areas where cyclist frequent?

[uart]

Retrogrouch reports in Ethical Conundrums that
* Teslas keeps crashing (per the manual)
* MB has chosen to proritise the driver over other road users.

Interesting read. I wonder how long it will be before they start lobbying for cyclists to carry mandatory transponders for their own safety (against self driving tech)? Not really looking forward to it.

[MichaelB]

I was thinking that, ideally, bicycle routes should be on roads which are not bus routes. (Which isn't to say that the cyclists can't use the bus routes, just that there should be alternatives especially for less confident riders). Looking at the map, I see that's not really feasible in this particular situation (or perhaps even in most situations).

Riders can ride on any road, whether there is a 'marked cycle lane' or not. Where you choose to ride, confidence or not, is up to each individual. We do have enough nouse to be able to plan a route ourselves.

Whilst I'd love to have cycle routes free of other traffic, I'm sensible enough to know that that is never going to happen.

[London Boy]

Retrogrouch reports in Ethical Conundrums that
* Teslas keeps crashing (per the manual)
* MB has chosen to proritise the driver over other road users.

Interesting read. I wonder how long it will be before they start lobbying for cyclists to carry mandatory transponders for their own safety (against self driving tech)? Not really looking forward to it.

Just carry a transponder that says, "I'm a tank". "And I have a big gun".

[warthog1]

I was thinking that, ideally, bicycle routes should be on roads which are not bus routes. (Which isn't to say that the cyclists can't use the bus routes, just that there should be alternatives especially for less confident riders). Looking at the map, I see that's not really feasible in this particular situation (or perhaps even in most situations).

Riders can ride on any road, whether there is a 'marked cycle lane' or not. Where you choose to ride, confidence or not, is up to each individual. We do have enough nouse to be able to plan a route ourselves.

Whilst I'd love to have cycle routes free of other traffic, I'm sensible enough to know that that is never going to happen.

I guess I'm lucky not living in a major city.
(I like Adelaide as a city though, it is one of the few in which I could happily live)
I choose routes away from traffic where possible.
It's just so much more pleasant

[ironhanglider]

This morning I was riding in the bicycle lane on Gardiner Rd in Notting Hill and a bus pulls up next to me getting closer and closer and then right on top of me and stops, I had to go out into traffic to get around it while the bus took on passengers.

Before this started a conversation of it's own did anyone notice that this was a first post?

Welcome cycosis, I wish it were under better circumstances.

I suspect that your forum name may have been overlooked due to its similarity to a regular poster bychosis.

Having a bus squeeze you into the gutter is downright scary. A complaint to the company might with route location, direction and time might prompt an appropriate response. Many busses have cameras, and the footage might be useful for some driver training.

Cheers,

Cameron

[jasonc]

Welcome cycosis, I wish it were under better circumstances.

amen

[bychosis]

What goes through their minds?

This morning I slowed to ensure a driver gave way at a roundabout, he did. Then in the next 100m is another roundabout so I sat up indicated right and moved to the centre then right of the lane.

Had to stop at the roundabout due to traffic from the right. The Ute then pulled up alongside, I assume to turn left. When I got a gap I took off and so did the ute and continued to move to overtake on the outside of a one lane roundabout that then turns into a single merge lane to join a slip lane. I moved out to centre of lane to ensure there was no squeeze room.

Had the windows been down a character assessment may have been provided, but I had to make do with a ‘what are you doing?’ gesture.

[find_bruce]

Today's moron was on a scooter: "Are you allowed to ride here?" "Yeah... it's a road"

The knucklehead then points to a narrow shared path & suggest I should ride there. Only two problems (1) there is a 4 foot high concrete barrier between the road & that path & (2) Danny MaCaskill I'm not.

Me jumping that barrier is about as improbable was what I was tempted to suggest he do with himself

[kenwstr]

What goes through their minds?

This morning I slowed to ensure a driver gave way at a roundabout, he did. Then in the next 100m is another roundabout so I sat up indicated right and moved to the centre then right of the lane.

Had to stop at the roundabout due to traffic from the right. The Ute then pulled up alongside, I assume to turn left. When I got a gap I took off and so did the ute and continued to move to overtake on the outside of a one lane roundabout that then turns into a single merge lane to join a slip lane. I moved out to centre of lane to ensure there was no squeeze room.

Had the windows been down a character assessment may have been provided, but I had to make do with a ‘what are you doing?’ gesture.

Been overtaken and undertaken on roundabouts a few times. One of their favorites is to try to wipe you out on the gutter on exit. I try to approach small roundabouts at least 30 kmph lane centre and time arrival in a gap. Often just off a rear corner to be within in the avoid zone of that motor vehicle. This way I become part of the existing flow and have 2 ton shield, much fewer incidences. Have to adjust position to ensure you are visible to cars entering though.

Ken

[Mulger bill]

Got right hooked while turning right in a two lane to one roundabout, raised the heart rate a little...

[AdelaidePeter]

What goes through their minds?

This morning I slowed to ensure a driver gave way at a roundabout, he did. Then in the next 100m is another roundabout so I sat up indicated right and moved to the centre then right of the lane.

Had to stop at the roundabout due to traffic from the right. The Ute then pulled up alongside, I assume to turn left. When I got a gap I took off and so did the ute and continued to move to overtake on the outside of a one lane roundabout that then turns into a single merge lane to join a slip lane. I moved out to centre of lane to ensure there was no squeeze room.

Had the windows been down a character assessment may have been provided, but I had to make do with a ‘what are you doing?’ gesture.

I think what goes through their minds is that bicycles are so slow that they can safely be overtaken on a roundabout.

It's a sad that I have to do this, but my modus operandi is to avoid all but the smallest roundabouts, wherever possible.

[Thoglette]

It's a sad that I have to do this, but my modus operandi is to avoid all but the smallest roundabouts, wherever possible.

I have to find the cite (I'm pretty sure it's a dutch cycling embassy paper) but IIRC multi-lane roundabouts have a very bad record and are "not recommended".

Certainly matches my experience. The only thing to do is keep up as much speed as possible. Fine if one is in lycra mode. Not so good when dressed in civvies.

[Scott_C]

It's a sad that I have to do this, but my modus operandi is to avoid all but the smallest roundabouts, wherever possible.

I have to find the cite (I'm pretty sure it's a dutch cycling embassy paper) but IIRC multi-lane roundabouts have a very bad record and are "not recommended".

Certainly matches my experience. The only thing to do is keep up as much speed as possible. Fine if one is in lycra mode. Not so good when dressed in civvies.

Austroads also have a paper on cyclist safety at roundabouts:
https://www.onlinepublications.austroad ... AP-R461-14

They decided it was too risky to send their researchers onto multilane roundabouts, "High-speed, multi-lane roundabouts were not studied due to the unacceptable risk the researchers would have been exposed to."

Despite the peak body identifying that high speed multi-lane roundabouts are too dangerous to cyclists to ethically send researchers out to ride on them the roads authorities continue to build new ones.

[DavidS]

Riding west along Park St South Melbourne, nasty intersection where cars often just come straight out in front of you (cnr Wells St). Car tries to come across my path (Park St has right of way, Wells St has a stop sign).

I go in front of them and they honk, I flip the bird. Then he starts abusing me: says he doesn't have to give way to me as I was in a bike lane (there isn't one and that's irrelevant anyway). His opinion was that he didn't have to give way to me even facing a stop sign because I'm on a bike. Where the hell do they get this idea? Totally contrary to the road rules. You can't reason with someone who is so ignorant.

DS

[kenwstr]

Riding west along Park St South Melbourne, nasty intersection where cars often just come straight out in front of you (cnr Wells St). Car tries to come across my path (Park St has right of way, Wells St has a stop sign).

I go in front of them and they honk, I flip the bird. Then he starts abusing me: says he doesn't have to give way to me as I was in a bike lane (there isn't one and that's irrelevant anyway). His opinion was that he didn't have to give way to me even facing a stop sign because I'm on a bike. Where the hell do they get this idea? Totally contrary to the road rules. You can't reason with someone who is so ignorant.

DS

Oh um Facebook, Twitter, the Pub. Authoritative sources like that, take your pick.
You know, bicycles shouldn't be on the road, therefore I have right of way at all times. Dipsticks logic!

[Ross]

What goes through their minds?

Very little except thoughts about themselves

[Ross]

MM has his Porsche impounded 10 mins after buying it! Driving 60km/h over the speed limit while filming it using a mobile phone

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... ae8aa3b8a7

[Cheesewheel]

https://m.caboolturenews.com.au/news/un ... e/3280097/

A bit dated from a few months ago, but in this case, the facebook douchebagginess of a motor cyclist played a part in mooting his compensation claim with a Hyundai terracan.
(As a side note, I can't believe a car company decided to name one of their models a terracan)