Shimano 11-28 vs 11-32

[kb]

...
If you've got it, sounds like you will use it. Therefore the question moves towards do you want to use it.

I used to run two cassettes on my 1x9 MTB. 11-28 for general riding, and 11-34 (or was it 11-32?) for 100km events for those long climbs. Eventually I stopped using the 11-28 because I didn't make the time to switch the 11-34 back off the bike. I suspect my 'everyday legs' power adapted to the lower gearing because I'd still find myself running out of gears and hoping for another one.

Torque, not power.

[bychosis]

...
If you've got it, sounds like you will use it. Therefore the question moves towards do you want to use it.

I used to run two cassettes on my 1x9 MTB. 11-28 for general riding, and 11-34 (or was it 11-32?) for 100km events for those long climbs. Eventually I stopped using the 11-28 because I didn't make the time to switch the 11-34 back off the bike. I suspect my 'everyday legs' power adapted to the lower gearing because I'd still find myself running out of gears and hoping for another one.

Torque, not power.

I guess. My legs are pretty much all talk.

[caneye]

fyi, K-edge makes an aftermarket long cage for the 6770 derailleur. that's one other option.
not sure how much it costs to get it retrofitted though.

http://fitwerx.com/k-edge-long-cage-con ... d-quicker/

[MichaelB]

fyi, K-edge makes an aftermarket long cage for the 6770 derailleur. that's one other option.
not sure how much it costs to get it retrofitted though.

http://fitwerx.com/k-edge-long-cage-con ... d-quicker/

Still gotta go to the USA ....

[Belly68]

Hi, I have read this with interest and also have a question. My 2014 Giant Defy Advanced is currently in stock form running a 34/50 and a 11/28 cassette. I wish to change it up a bit and have seen on the new TCR, they are running 36/52 and a 11/30 cassette. What advantage would this provide in this form.

[Derny Driver]

Hi, I have read this with interest and also have a question. My 2014 Giant Defy Advanced is currently in stock form running a 34/50 and a 11/28 cassette. I wish to change it up a bit and have seen on the new TCR, they are running 36/52 and a 11/30 cassette. What advantage would this provide in this form.

Hi belly .... really not much difference. The easy gear is almost the same on both 34-28 and 36-30 (31.5 and 31.8 gear inches). That's a very easy gear indeed.
The hardest gear is noticeably bigger on the 52-11 compared to the 50-11. But not that many people can push a 52-11 properly anyway ...yeah yeah downhill in a southerly buster.
I'm not a fan of the 34-50 for Australian conditions. We don't really need those super easy gears to get up our hills. Compared to proper mountains in other countries, our toughest climbs are just pimples. You end up riding everywhere in the 50 cog looking for some massive berg to use the 34 on. Try riding the 34 on the flat and you end up cross chaining on the 11 and 12 cogs a lot of the time.
I am a big fan of the 36-52. Its an excellent combination. The 36 gives good range for general riding on the flats, and when used with the 23, 25, 27 cogs gives great climbing gears. And the 52 is just a smidgeon smaller than a 53, you can race on a 52 chainring without any gear disadvantage, its not even noticeable. 52-11 or even 52-12 is more than big enough for any muscle-bound gorilla to push.
I think the reason for the new TCR having the 36-52 is that the compacts are becoming unpopular due to their limitations, and this mid-size combo is more versatile.
For the record my son rides State A grade / some NRS and I put the 36-52 on his new bike. Better than a 39-53 or 34-50 hands down.

[Belly68]

Thanks Durny Driver,

So your saying change the chainrings and leave the cassette alone.

[eeksll]

Hi, I have read this with interest and also have a question. My 2014 Giant Defy Advanced is currently in stock form running a 34/50 and a 11/28 cassette. I wish to change it up a bit and have seen on the new TCR, they are running 36/52 and a 11/30 cassette. What advantage would this provide in this form.

functionally I don't see any reason to change
Easiest gear is more or less the same.
There is a harder gear on the 36/52, how often are you using the hardest gear on the current bike and want 1 more hard gear to go faster?

the front shifting will be about the same as there is the same tooth difference between the 2 chainrings.

The only advantage I see, is if you are often riding in the 34 chainring and constantly around the small cassette cogs, then moving to a 36 small chainring will give you a quieter / straighter chainline. For this case it would be cheaper to just change the inner chainring from a 34 to a 36 (if 36 tooth exists for your chainset)

edit: why do you want to change? want an easier gear? want something new/different?

[cyclotaur]

Hi, I have read this with interest and also have a question. My 2014 Giant Defy Advanced is currently in stock form running a 34/50 and a 11/28 cassette. I wish to change it up a bit and have seen on the new TCR, they are running 36/52 and a 11/30 cassette. What advantage would this provide in this form.

...I'm not a fan of the 34-50 for Australian conditions. We don't really need those super easy gears to get up our hills. Compared to proper mountains in other countries, our toughest climbs are just pimples. You end up riding everywhere in the 50 cog looking for some massive berg to use the 34 on. ...
For the record my son rides State A grade / some NRS and I put the 36-52 on his new bike. Better than a 39-53 or 34-50 hands down.

Derny you may be correct when talking about State A grade/NRS riders but they are elite riders in anyone's language. Lower gears are great for 'average' recreational riders, yes even in flat old Australian mountains. The 50/34 combo is a good one and probably the most popular crankset for the very good reason that there are many times more riders and $$ under the middle of the bell curve than at the elite extreme.

If, for example, Belly68 is a 50yo riding an endurance bike, that 50/34 is perfect. His next move would probably be to fit a bigger cassette because, as you rightly point out he won't gain much from 52/36>11/30.

[Derny Driver]

Thanks Derny Driver,

So your saying change the chainrings and leave the cassette alone.

No I would leave it.
I agree with everything eeksl has said.

[Belly68]

Thanks for the replies, yes I want to try something different, a mate changed to the 36/52 he reckons it's fab and has changed the bike. His is a 2015 giant defy advanced pro. What cassette do people suggest if I leave the chainrings as is.

[Derny Driver]

Derny you may be correct when talking about State A grade/NRS riders but they are elite riders in anyone's language. Lower gears are great for 'average' recreational riders, yes even in flat old Australian mountains. The 50/34 combo is a good one and probably the most popular crankset for the very good reason that there are many times more riders and $$ under the middle of the bell curve than at the elite extreme.

If, for example, Belly68 is a 50yo riding an endurance bike, that 50/34 is perfect. His next move would probably be to fit a bigger cassette because, as you rightly point out he won't gain much from 52/36>11/30.

Cheers ct, I take your point but i think you may have misunderstood me.
I have no facts or figures but it is my suspicion that compact chainsets (50-34) are going out of fashion, due to the fact that the 34 ring is really quite useless for general riding around. Sure it gives you extremely low gears, but gears like 34-30 or 34-32 are really really low and only suited for going up very steep hills. If you live in the Victorian Alps then maybe you may opt for this combo, but I am not convinced that the average punter needs such gearing. With the advent of the mid-compact 52-36 we have a much more rideable combination. And you can still put whatever cassette you want on the rear.
I understand the thinking behind 50-34 and its sensible, but in practice the combo has not really delivered in popularity. The mid compact is the answer in my opinion. I really think its brilliant and covers all bases.
The reference to racing was simply to show the versatility of the 52-36 ...most racers use the 53-39 standard chainset but really there is not a lot of difference.
Of course people can choose whatever chainset they want. Isnt it great we now have 3 options? It wasnt that long ago bikes came with 42-52 as standard and no other choices.

[Derny Driver]

Thanks for the replies, yes I want to try something different, a mate changed to the 36/52 he reckons it's fab and has changed the bike. His is a 2015 giant defy advanced pro. What cassette do people suggest if I leave the chainrings as is.

Now if you had a 52 or 53 big chainring, the first thing I would recommend is getting rid of the 11 cog. Its a stupid little thing that gets the chain on it for maybe 1% of any given ride. Getting rid of that gives you a nice 16 or 18 tooth cog in the middle of the cassette which would be used lots every ride. Unfortunately with you 50 chainring you probably need to keep the 11, as 50-12 may not be a fast enough top gear.
On the other end of the scale, with the 34 ring you probably need a 27 or 28. So your 11-28 is probably the right cassette for you.

The other option would be a 12-25 which gives a better range of gears in the middle where you use them a lot, but not as easy a small gear, and not as hard a top gear. Depends on what sort of riding you are doing. Next time you go riding, take note of how often you use the 11, and how often you use the 28. If they are not being used, get a cassette without them. You will get nicer closer gears in the rest of your range.

[cyclotaur]

....
Cheers ct, I take your point but i think you may have misunderstood me.
I have no facts or figures but it is my suspicion that compact chainsets (50-34) are going out of fashion, due to the fact that the 34 ring is really quite useless for general riding around. Sure it gives you extremely low gears, but gears like 34-30 or 34-32 are really really low and only suited for going up very steep hills. If you live in the Victorian Alps then maybe you may opt for this combo, but I am not convinced that the average punter needs such gearing. With the advent of the mid-compact 52-36 we have a much more rideable combination. And you can still put whatever cassette you want on the rear.
I understand the thinking behind 50-34 and its sensible, but in practice the combo has not really delivered in popularity. The mid compact is the answer in my opinion. I really think its brilliant and covers all bases.
The reference to racing was simply to show the versatility of the 52-36 ...most racers use the 53-39 standard chainset but really there is not a lot of difference.
Of course people can choose whatever chainset they want. Isnt it great we now have 3 options? It wasnt that long ago bikes came with 42-52 as standard and no other choices.

I'm not sure about 50-34 not being popular - but we may just have to disagree on that one, I guess.

I'd actually prefer a 50/36 and 11-34 on a light road bike (never really had one).
My favourite combo so far is my CX setup of 46/34>11-34 - no big clunky jump between big and little ring.

Though I now have a 48/32>11-32 on a new Diverge which will be great for a short tour next week in those very Alps you speak of.

[10speedsemiracer]

Pfft, and here I was riding around on 52/42 and 12-28. I must be crazy..

[AUbicycles]

I wouldn’t waste to much thought-power on the increments but an argument for 11-28 is that the 28 is as easy as it gets... and you have to suck it up. The best case is that your mountain legs are in great form and you don’t even go into granny gear. In other words, if the rider next to you is on the easy gears with the same cadence, you will win the KOM.

[MichaelB]

I'm not a fan of the 34-50 for Australian conditions. We don't really need those super easy gears to get up our hills. Compared to proper mountains in other countries, our toughest climbs are just pimples....

This sort of comment annoys me. Yes, compared to Europe, many of our hills are not as long or as steep (or both) and I’ve done some of them.

But a statement like we don’t need 34/50 in Aus is just dumb. I put out reasonable power and am 51 but not light. I like climbing hills and some steep ones at that, and 90% of recreational riders in this country are not pros, nor can they ride like one.

Rant over.

As for whether it’s worth the change, are you running out of gears at either end ? If yes, look at changing, if not, save your money

[Tim]

I'm with Derny in the compact, mid-compact, standard chainset debate (argument )
I only weight-in at 61kg's currently (55 yo) but I am certainly no powerhouse, pro, nor A-grader.
I live near the base of the Vic Alps (Alps ha ha), and do plenty of climbing. Bruthen-Ensay, Swifts Creek-Omeo, Omeo-Hotham etc.
Compact cranks were a PITA. Always cross-chained and jumping between the front rings on the flats and minor undulations.
Admittedly climbing out-of-saddle is easy for me and I can maintain that stance for a considerable time. 53/39 suits me fine although 53 is often too big. 50-52 would be better but I still prefer 39 on the small ring.
I haven't tried mid-compacts but they sound very useful in long steep country.
Compact, nah, I hated them.
Derny's comments aren't dumb. I'd suggest they come from fair experience.

[RobertL]

I think that a lot of cyslists look at these things from the point of view of an experienced cyclist. When I started riding a road bike seriously a couple of years ago I was fat and slow - but keen. I put a compact crank and a (10 speed) 12-30 on my bike, and I struggled to get up hills in 34-30.

I replaced that cassette with another one not so long ago.

Now I am fitter, faster and 20kgs lighter and I seriously think that I would better off with an 11-28. I could get up those hills in 34-28 now, and I would like the 50-11 for crit races.

My only concern is that my current cassette is still quite new, so I am tossing up whether to replace it soon, or wait a bit longer to get more use out of it.

However, if I bought a new bike or groupset, I would go with a 52/36 and put either an 11-28 or 11-30 on it.

[Belly68]

Thanks for the all the useful information, it's great to see all the different opinions. I am going to try 52/36 chainring and leave the cassette as is.

[MichaelB]

I'm with Derny in the compact, mid-compact, standard chainset debate (argument )
...Derny's comments aren't dumb. I'd suggest they come from fair experience.

I have no issue with him (or whomever) not liking a compact, but to make such a broad sweeping statement is just wrong and unhelpful.

I'd LOVE to be able to use a std chainset up some of the 15-20% gradients near me (as that would make a new PM on the 2nd bike MUCH easier to find), but I can't.

So to say that it's not needed in Aus is just wrong. For DD and the likes of you, fine, but not everyone.

[Derny Driver]

I have no issue with him (or whomever) not liking a compact, but to make such a broad sweeping statement is just wrong and unhelpful.
.

Wot? Broad sweeping statements are not allowed on the BNA forum
All good mate. I did actually also say that its great that we can have a choice of 3 chainsets these days.

[eeksll]

I have no issue with him (or whomever) not liking a compact, but to make such a broad sweeping statement is just wrong and unhelpful.
.

Wot? Broad sweeping statements are not allowed on the BNA forum
All good mate. I did actually also say that its great that we can have a choice of 3 chainsets these days.

food for thought, you can't really get 11 speed cassettes with anything except an 11 tooth cog as the smallest cog. Makes the compact much more attractive ?

[Derny Driver]

food for thought, you can't really get 11 speed cassettes with anything except an 11 tooth cog as the smallest cog. Makes the compact much more attractive ?

True. Id be happy with the Shimano 12-25 on a mid compact though. Miche make a 12-25, 12-27 and 12-29 in 11 speed. $68.50 on chain reaction. I did give the 11 tooth cog its own home page on here somewhere, but thats a different thread.
You need the 11 on compacts, I agree. The beauty of the mid compact is that you can do away with the 11 and put something on the other end of the cassette. With a decent sized big ring (52 or 53) you dont need the 11.
I stand by my comment about the compacts, so allow me to explain further:
If Im buying a new bike and have a choice, I would not buy compacts because the small ring is no good for general flat riding. You end up with a massive chain angle from the inner ring across to the outer cogs of the cassette (11, 12, 13). The gear most used for general flat riding around at a leisurely easy pace is around 65 gear inches. On a compact chainset thats around the 13 or 14 cog. As soon as you go downhill you have to go up to the 50 ring because the chain is rubbing on the front mech on the 11. Most people just ride around in the 50 to avoid the issue. So whats the 34 ring for? Climbing you say. I need 34 for climbing. I cant climb on a 36.
Yes you can. You just put a 30 on the back instead of a 28. Or a 32. No-one said you can't have a 36-52 with a dinnerplate cassette. You can if you want, or if you think you need it.
Given the choice, mid compact is more versatile in my humble opinion.
But hey, Im not selling the things and dont really care what people choose.

[sammutd88]

food for thought, you can't really get 11 speed cassettes with anything except an 11 tooth cog as the smallest cog. Makes the compact much more attractive ?

True. Id be happy with the Shimano 12-25 on a mid compact though. Miche make a 12-25, 12-27 and 12-29 in 11 speed. $68.50 on chain reaction. I did give the 11 tooth cog its own home page on here somewhere, but thats a different thread.
You need the 11 on compacts, I agree. The beauty of the mid compact is that you can do away with the 11 and put something on the other end of the cassette. With a decent sized big ring (52 or 53) you dont need the 11.
I stand by my comment about the compacts, so allow me to explain further:
If Im buying a new bike and have a choice, I would not buy compacts because the small ring is no good for general flat riding. You end up with a massive chain angle from the inner ring across to the outer cogs of the cassette (11, 12, 13). The gear most used for general flat riding around at a leisurely easy pace is around 65 gear inches. On a compact chainset thats around the 13 or 14 cog. As soon as you go downhill you have to go up to the 50 ring because the chain is rubbing on the front mech on the 11. Most people just ride around in the 50 to avoid the issue. So whats the 34 ring for? Climbing you say. I need 34 for climbing. I cant climb on a 36.
Yes you can. You just put a 30 on the back instead of a 28. Or a 32. No-one said you can't have a 36-52 with a dinnerplate cassette. You can if you want, or if you think you need it.
Given the choice, mid compact is more versatile in my humble opinion.
But hey, Im not selling the things and dont really care what people choose.

This! I run a 52/36 and an 11-32 on the rear because im rubbish when the road slopes upwards. I've never had to struggle on the 36-32. I'd imagine a 34-32 would feel indistinguishable to the 36-32.