1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:54 am

I finally have the front hub that I am happy with, thanks Simon.
and the new strong rims in the Constrictor Asp style
Imagehubs and rims by philip.knight, on Flickr

the hubs and rims can go off for measuring and the spokes can be ordered from Britain.

and playing with the front end jewellry
Imagefront end progress by philip.knight, on Flickr

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:25 am

if Dare handlebar grips were good for the 1946 Hobbs of Barbican, then they are also good for the Blue Riband.
These came up on the British evilbay.
Imagedare grips by philip.knight, on Flickr

I was the only bidder (no surprises there).
So red grips to lift the conservative appearance.
And this needs to have red elsewhere.

Simon (a cycling friend who has a good eye for detail) has suggested red toe straps.
And I have thought I can have a red highlight on the chainset.
If you know your late 1940s/early 1950s British lightweight rare components you will know where this might be going.
Hobbs of Barbican produced some top end components under the Lytaloy name.

They are highly sought after whenever they appear.

But one of the rarest items is the Lytaloy chainset. Rare because they often cracked. It has been suggested to me that current knowledge of the alloy grades should provide a grade that will work.
So I am now chasing another rabbit down a hole and my drive-side survivor is being modelled by a professional. If that works, the model will go off for CNC machining.
ImageLytaloy chainring by philip.knight, on Flickr
Then I can paint the area around the name, and that will further repeat the red in the grips, and balance the appearance.
Just like on John's Alcon
But there will be a set of Williams cranks in the intervening period.

Johnj
Posts: 551
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Sydney, Inner West

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Johnj » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:18 pm

I had the good fortune to buy a non-cracked NDS crank for the Alcon. Happy to send the cracked one to you if you like Phillip.

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:37 pm

that would help a great deal in modelling the 'missing' arm.
thanks

User avatar
singlespeedscott
Posts: 5510
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:43 pm

I wouldn’t be using a CNCed crankarm modelled off a thin section forged one. If the forged item use to crack the CNC version will not last long.
Image

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:16 am

The CNC machining will be done by someone who makes crank arms for these. If Mick has concerns with the design, he has a clarity in his communication style which even I could not misinterpret.

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:20 am

The Sturmey Archer cable run. Conventionally the cable is run from the trigger through an outer cable to a fulcrum clip on the top tube. This fulcrum clip can be located to effectively change the cable length. The bare cable continues to pulley assembly located near the saddle then to the crimped cable termination housed in an inline adjuster, then a short chain into the SA hub.
Except this frame has a down tube mount.

From my reading, the cable run along the top tube and down close to parallel to the seat stays is preferred as it will allow a more consistent cable tension when the wheels are placed in the rear dropouts. This cable tension is critical for the operation of the gears. The end of the cable is terminated with a crimp (modern fittings have an alternate system that is bulky and not pleasing). This limits the ability to adjust the cable once it is installed.

I will try a few workarounds to achieve the same results.
The cable from the trigger:
ImageBR cable run 1 by philip.knight, on Flickr

into an inline adjuster:
ImageBR cable run 3 by philip.knight, on Flickr
The inline adjuster I have installed is to fill the role of the movable fulcrum clip.

into a modified cable stop:
ImageBR cable run 2 by philip.knight, on Flickr

then to the cable stops through some more housing (not shown)) then to the hub (yet to be built).
ImageBR cable run by philip.knight, on Flickr

The consistent placing of the rear wheel will be managed by the Cyclo chain tensioners shown.

The chainring and the crank arm have been modelled.
They are available for viewing (for a short time) at
https://autode.sk/2vQYmrr
https://autode.sk/2vPubRn

User avatar
GaryF
Posts: 1201
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:38 am
Location: Near Bundaberg, Queensland.

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby GaryF » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:27 am

Your work is so good. This is such a beautiful project and I know the end bike will be one that you can visually feast on for hours finding interesting mechanical gems from the past and interesting ways of bring them into this century. Congratulations Clydesdale Scot.

scooter1971
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:41 am

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby scooter1971 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:11 pm

Great to see bikes like this coming back to life.
Gives me the motivation to get going with my own soon.

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:51 pm

a nervous time... dealing with old rubber.

ImageHobbs BR20180908 by philip.knight, on Flickr

The Dare handlebar sleeves were given a treatment of 303 Aerospace Protectant, then into a bucket of warm water. Gentle pushing had them installed without drama.
Then for the GB Superhood lever hoods. The notches cut for the adjusters, then gentle pushing and levering had them also installed.
The cable outers measured, cut, ground and placed into position.

Finally some colour to provide interest.

Much available at my fingertips.

User avatar
singlespeedscott
Posts: 5510
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:52 am

Looks good. Never thought to place a bell there. I guess when I need it I’m usually not in the drops.
Image

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:11 pm

This bike is being setup along the lines of the time trial bikes of the late 1940s and early 1950s.
The medium ratio SA fixed hub suggests that direction. It was this rather special hub that this project has been built around.
The time triallists were required to have a bell and use it when approaching another rider prior to overtaking. So it is placed to be accessible when racing.
These images are from Classic Lightweights

Image
Image
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
singlespeedscott
Posts: 5510
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:07 pm

Looking at those Marsh bars I don’t think I would be using them for anything but tt’s
Image

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:52 pm

a bit of therapy today.
servicing some pedals.
ImageBrampton pedals before by philip.knight, on Flickr
dismantle, then a kero degrease, followed by a few cycles of ultrasonic cleaning. Wipe dry, reassembly with marine grade grease and they now look like
ImageBrampton pedals after by philip.knight, on Flickr

and that is fresh grease on the threads which will be removed and replaced with newer fresh grease when the time comes.

It took Mario and I some time to identify these, but they appear to be Brampton 546 Hiduminium Racing Lightweight pedals.
they are on page 4 of the 1948 Brampton catalogue
They are rarely seen.

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:06 am

Waiting around for others before buying the 15/17 spokes ....
Imagespoke chart by philip.knight, on Flickr

was not required!
In a UK facebook cycling group, Neil Edwards mentioned a Sturmey Archer spoke chart. I enquired further and the chart was kindly provided by Neil.

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:59 pm

Some action.
The wheels have been built.
A chainset has been installed, pending a final decision on the replica Lytaloy.
The headset has been swapped over to a Lytaloy.
I need to make up a suitable gear cable, get some leather to make up some toe straps (yes I know I can buy some, but remember it is my project), some tubing to make hollow rivets for the toe straps, front axle lock nuts, tyres, tubes, rim tape...
But I have not been permitted to leave our home. I was one of those who made a hasty retreat from an overseas holiday. The isolation ends in 29.5 hours.

Make it look pretty...then try to see how this hub gear works.

Gordon1
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Gordon1 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:05 am

Nice to see this progressing and it seems you have used some of your isolation time well. How many hours to go now?

I note you had on your list of finishing touches rim tape which got my mind wandering. I have yet to do the research but I would guess that in 1952 there would have be a mixture of tape or old fashioned cloth with the retaining clip. Should you need cloth rather than tape I have some spare after raiding a closing bike shop years ago. Happy to send two over as a pay back as I know your attention to detail of even the hidden things is important. I use them on special bikes only, this bike falls into that category.

LG
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Southeast Tasmania

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby LG » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:38 pm

This thread has seemingly provided years of entertainment, looks great. Glad you weren't stuck anywhere OS and have made use of your enforced isolation.
LG = Low Gear

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:45 pm

the speed that this project is proceeding, rim tape will be probably have disintegrated. I was gifted many rolls of the cotton rim tape, but these were gifted to Simon Trnosky for use as handlebar wraps on his visually attractive bikes.
I will probably just go with modern rim tape.
Now some photos.
The brass washers
ImageSA spoke hole washers by philip.knight, on Flickr

My little whimsy, the decals
Imagevelocity decal by philip.knight, on Flickr
these are modelled on the Constrictor rim decals. The Constrictor rims have a similar profile. I hope you appreciate the care I put into these decals including the cut lines. Because in use they will never be seen up close. Greg declined to print them, so it was suggested I go with an Adelaide decal printer. And Steve's contact details are kept for future work.

And the new leather in the toe straps, dyed red with leather dye. Leather was cut, then bevelled, then burnished, then dyed. The leather was attached to the metal ends with custom rivets made from 3mm OD brass tubing.
Imagetoestrap by philip.knight, on Flickr

still so much to do
Imageso far 20200426 by philip.knight, on Flickr

I have recently been given a Spinters saddle by Marcus. It needs a new leather top. So that may be destined for this one.
I have to reshape the leather, make a mould, cast the leather, dye the leather, rivet it. Red is likely as it complies with Rule 8 and red goes faster
Yeah, I recently gave some nickel lozenges to my brother-in-law to play with. So the saddle frame may be a test for nickel plating.

Tyres and tubes to ponder, and a chain. I think I have a NOS Renolds chain. But it means trying to find it. Often that is an interesting task because I find all sorts of past projects, and they tend to distract me.
And I have the smaller profile brass tubing for the SA gear cable crimps.

And there is a guy on another bike group that has made some really nice SA ASC trigger plates. This could then be swapped over for the current trigger plate.

And if I ever got around to finishing the mould for the GB Superhoods half hood version, I could cast them in red to match. That could be tasty.

Must be time for some deep thinking on this.

And time to consider tyres... 27" open to suggestions here.

LG
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Southeast Tasmania

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby LG » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:45 am

It's hard to go wrong with skin wall Panaracer Pasela's
LG = Low Gear

User avatar
10speedsemiracer
Posts: 4904
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Back on the Tools .. when I'm not in the office

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:52 am

The build is looking brilliant, am looking forward to the completed bike.

Schwalbe HS159 come in a white-wall (or black) or the Panaracers.

Vittoria make the Zaffiro in 27" as well and Michelin make the Protek although doubt it could be sourced locally. The Continental SuperSport is also available in 27 but again, hard to find anyone actually selling them.

Moruya Bicycles sell the Schwalbe at a reasonable price. It isn't one of their higher-end offerings (Schwalbe) however is perfectly functional.
Campagnolo for show, SunTour for go

User avatar
Ferrovelo
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:07 am

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Ferrovelo » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:04 pm

Looking great - very nearly there

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:49 am

A four speed SA trigger in the queue for reassignment.
ImageSA trigger dismantled by philip.knight, on Flickr

An opportunity has arisen to secure a metal ASC faceplate rather than the decaled one I have. So I am going to go with that.
This one needs a new spring as well.
Then the modifications will need to be made before it is reassembled.

Some Panaracer 27x1 1/8" tyres have been located in Japan, and are awaiting shipment.

User avatar
hiflange
Posts: 1938
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:27 pm
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby hiflange » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:35 pm

I've been a bit of a lurker... so going back a few posts you were deciding to go with modern rim tape. It's a good decision! I bought a job lot of cotton rim tape a while ago. Modern rim tape has a light adhesive backing, the old stuff doesn't and tends to shift around when installing your tyre and tube... with the potential to leave parts of the tube unprotected. The metal clasp at the valve hole has some sharp edges, the source of a couple of punctures for me.
The Constrictor style Velocity decals are the bomb :-)

User avatar
Clydesdale Scot
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: 1952 Hobbs 'Blue Riband': the next iteration

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:46 pm

The package arrived from the USA this week, so some shed time saw this achieved.
Imagenew trigger by philip.knight, on Flickr|
The marks on the face is just dust and oil from where I lubricated it.

I am really pleased with the outcome. I can now appreciate why Sturmey Archer regarded the triggers as non-user serviceable.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users