Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Mr Purple
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Mr Purple » Tue May 16, 2023 3:22 pm

I'm not sure I'd feel safer in South East Asia given the huge fatality rates, but I've never ridden there so can't comment personally!

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source ... bb131e30_2

I honestly think Australian motorists are too far gone to salvage. The only things that will make cyclists safer at this point are separated cycling paths and self driving vehicles (and they're a long way off).

As others have said if front and rear cycling cameras become more ubiquitous and police start taking submitted footage seriously we might be in with a chance. As it is there's too many motorists who just don't give a damn. The number of times a queue of cars has passed me on a wide road where I'm riding as fair left as feasible and one has decided to randomly just miss me by 10cm or so is crazy. There's no reason for that except for sheer arrogance or laziness.

I'll happily ride a long way around for a bikeway. If there was an East-West bikeway in Brisbane (I live in Coorparoo and work in Cleveland) I'd probably ride to work a lot more often. As it is, it's just not safe enough to do so despite 2m+ wide shoulders very clearly marked as bike lanes. There needs to be a physical barrier, because probably 1% of drivers can't be trusted to have any consideration for any other human beings whatsoever.

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baabaa
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby baabaa » Tue May 16, 2023 5:23 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 3:22 pm
I'm not sure I'd feel safer in South East Asia given the huge fatality rates, but I've never ridden there so can't comment personally!

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source ... bb131e30_2

I honestly think Australian motorists are too far gone to salvage. The only things that will make cyclists safer at this point are separated cycling paths and self driving vehicles (and they're a long way off).
Yup agree with all that - some of the bigger cities of Indonesia are not much fun but Korea, Japan, Viet Nam, Taiwan should be on your to do list - guess I know the flow of India and Pakistan well enough to feel safe.
I did the move from the city (Sydney) to a tree and sea change and found that just being away from fools that biking became fun again, and if it is not fun why would anyone really bother biking. Example - just back from a ride with the dog before it got dark and while I miss the sights I would have seen crossing the Sydney Harbour Bridge at the same time, this type of riding for me.Image

jasonc
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby jasonc » Tue May 16, 2023 5:35 pm

baabaa wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 5:23 pm
Example - just back from a ride with the dog before it got dark and while I miss the sights I would have seen crossing the Sydney Harbour Bridge at the same time, this type of riding for me.Image
rule 301 (page 265) a bicycle rider must not lead an animal on a leash, including by tethering, while the bicycle is moving. Animals should be seated or housed in appropriate areas.

https://pcc.gov.au/uniform/Australian-R ... er2021.pdf

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baabaa
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby baabaa » Tue May 16, 2023 6:25 pm

Whoops (the tethering used to trot beside the bike is in the top tube bag which, from henceforth be known as as the tethering bag)

jasonc
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby jasonc » Tue May 16, 2023 6:29 pm

baabaa wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:25 pm
Whoops (the tethering used to trot beside the bike is in the top tube bag which, from henceforth be known as as the tethering bag)
What council in Oz allowed you to have dogs unrestrained on paths?

warthog1
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby warthog1 » Tue May 16, 2023 6:53 pm

He is not in the city or likely to adversely affect anybody else by the look of that.
I bet woofer had a good time :)
Dogs are the best people :wink:

jasonc
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby jasonc » Tue May 16, 2023 8:03 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:53 pm
He is not in the city or likely to adversely affect anybody else by the look of that.
I bet woofer had a good time :)
There's plenty of laws I don't like. However society only works if we all obey them, not choose the ones we wish to obey. I don't agree with mhl, but I would choose to wear a helmet as I don't putter along

warthog1
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby warthog1 » Tue May 16, 2023 8:39 pm

jasonc wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 8:03 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:53 pm
He is not in the city or likely to adversely affect anybody else by the look of that.
I bet woofer had a good time :)
There's plenty of laws I don't like. However society only works if we all obey them, not choose the ones we wish to obey. I don't agree with mhl, but I would choose to wear a helmet as I don't putter along
I think we can safely say, despite the vast array of laws we have, society has a number of flaws.
I don't expect somebody walking his dog without a lead on a deserted dirt track is going to have any great affect on how society works or doesn't. Equally if he chose to do so without his helmet on I don't see any great harm either.
There is a fair chance the emotional well being of both will have improved by having the walk however.
Dogs are the best people :wink:

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Thoglette
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Thoglette » Tue May 16, 2023 11:48 pm

jasonc wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 8:03 pm
However society only works if we all obey them, not choose the ones we wish to obey.
So you've never "Jay walked" ??? Or (in most states) had a "cold one" outside your home or a licensed area???

Do I need to go on? Or describe some of the recent laws enacted (legally) in Putin's world?
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

jasonc
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby jasonc » Wed May 17, 2023 9:36 am

Thoglette wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 11:48 pm
jasonc wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 8:03 pm
However society only works if we all obey them, not choose the ones we wish to obey.
So you've never "Jay walked" ??? Or (in most states) had a "cold one" outside your home or a licensed area???

Do I need to go on? Or describe some of the recent laws enacted (legally) in Putin's world?
If close I have j-walked. The issue is that it's an animal. You may know how they will respond 99 times out of 100. But I don't want to be there or be impacted by the one time in 100 that they respond differently

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baabaa
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby baabaa » Wed May 17, 2023 9:46 am

jasonc wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:29 pm
baabaa wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:25 pm
Whoops (the tethering used to trot beside the bike is in the top tube bag which, from henceforth be known as as the tethering bag)
What council in Oz allowed you to have dogs unrestrained on paths?
This is what this MHL discussion is be about...same as MHL how many people are really being stopped by the police or council and then fines for having a dog run beside a bicycle?

In Aust we have plenty of laws but if they are largely unpoliced are they really laws?

You have to be deaden to think that any modern bicycle helmet is going to cause more harm to the rider than good, but sometime commonsense and a desire for a strong community is more important than just the simple do this or do that laws.

I get dogs can be a real pest but “most” dogs can be trained to not be a hazard to people on paths. I dont ride a bike with any dog on a path - if we must ride thru the streets we just use the nature strip.
This bloke has trotted beside me in off leash dog parks, on travelling stock reserves roads, fire trials, on the beach, on old unused railway line service roads, deep into state forest on logging roads and hundreds of km on secondary dirt roads. I grew up with working sheep dogs so all dogs are coached to not engage with people when on or off a lead, to not chase livestock, birds, wildlife, other dogs but to stop when they see or smell reptiles. They are encouraged to chase foxes and cats so I can report back this spot to the LLS so they can trap or dispatch them.

But Warty is right, this sort of riding as it is very good for the soul to be out in the “bush” and find this sort of exercise suits me more than the need to ride fast. Any dog is also easier to live with when they have mental and physical stimulation. I tend to not use a helmet when doing these rides as we do just poke along and will often stop and look or take photos of birds or wildlife. If we see cars on these routes they do slow down as they are mostly have to drive slowly anyway so the risk of a fall is all mine.

Here is the local council link to dog parks – the area is very dog friendly and yes I do see people who ride bikes with dogs even on paths but I don’t see any police stopping and handing out fines. Not sure if residents have any issues as the dogs I have seen seem well controlled
https://www.esc.nsw.gov.au/residents/pe ... -and-areas

My other council has endless place to bike with a dog and council and the police only care about dogs attacking livestock, strays and barking.
https://www.hilltops.nsw.gov.au/services/pets-guide/

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