Diet Thread

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Mr Purple
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:45 pm

Diabetes is another of those medical conditions which is often both oversimplified and overcomplicated.

By and large it's weight related, not diet related. Though weight is almost invariably diet related so I can see how they get confounded! People always blame the sugar, and sugar is certainly a great way of putting on weight so it does contribute. But it is not the cause of diabetes - high sugar is a symptom of diabetes.

Whichever way you can safely reduce your weight is best. Reducing your weight by 10% if you have impaired sugar tolerance (pre-diabetes) reduces your chance of developing actual diabetes by 85%. And I've seen a significant number of my patients require no ongoing diabetes medication even after they've been diagnosed, with even a modest degree of weight loss.

Best of luck.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:57 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:45 pm
By and large it's weight related, not diet related. Though weight is almost invariably diet related so I can see how they get confounded!

Getting more specific, it's exceeding a personal fat threshold. That's why some relatively thin people get it. More to do with visceral fat accumulation and an overrun of fat in the internal organs like the liver. Once the fat starts accumulating in muscle cells, it blocks insulin function.

Fasting can reverse the symptoms. So if it wasn't diet related, fasting would have no effect. Yes you can lose weight without changing your diet. But it's the hard way to do it and doesn't work for everyone (like me) over the long term.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:58 pm


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:38 pm


warthog1
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:10 am

Been drinking Rooibos for a couple of years or more now. Have had a liver function test during that time as part of a regular checkup. It was fine.

I noted a comment in that youtube link;
"Millions of people drink Rooibos on the regular and have no issues. If it was a case of rooibos being toxic in general, there would be a worldwide epidemic of people having liver issues, especially in South Africa."

That rings true to me. I may moderate my consumption anyway though. Thanks for posting.
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Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:59 am

warthog1 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:10 am
Been drinking Rooibos for a couple of years or more now. Have had a liver function test during that time as part of a regular checkup. It was fine.

I noted a comment in that youtube link;
"Millions of people drink Rooibos on the regular and have no issues. If it was a case of rooibos being toxic in general, there would be a worldwide epidemic of people having liver issues, especially in South Africa."

That rings true to me. I may moderate my consumption anyway though. Thanks for posting.

I used to drink Rooibos many years ago. Also never had a problem. I suppose part of the message was that due to easy mistakes in havesting, it only takes a bad batch to potentially put one in hospital. And it doesn't look like the suppliers are batch testing for it either.

Interestingly green tea was also on a list of teas to be cautious in consuming. I've been trying green tea lately as there are some anti-cancer claims in reference to it. I've just moved to white tea as it's supposed to have less processing, more phytonutrients and less caffeine. It tastes like a milder green tea to me. Black, green and white are all the same plant just with different processing and in the case of white, picking time as well. As usual with anything supposedly healthier, it's usually more expensive too.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:04 am

Plently of evidence that milk does harm. But I don't think there was a clear answer to the question of why. In the end, the exact mechanism or a combination of mechanisms doesn't matter that much. Just avoid it for improved general health and longevity.


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:50 am

Nobody wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:59 am
Interestingly green tea was also on a list of teas to be cautious in consuming. I've been trying green tea lately as there are some anti-cancer claims in reference to it. I've just moved to white tea as it's supposed to have less processing, more phytonutrients and less caffeine. It tastes like a milder green tea to me. Black, green and white are all the same plant just with different processing and in the case of white, picking time as well. As usual with anything supposedly healthier, it's usually more expensive too.

Blood tests AST and ALT for liver came back poor. Specific liver marker ALT = 47. Top of range is 40. I was drinking organic green tea twice daily so no option but to ditch the white tea. I'm also drinking organic peppermint tea, but I'll probably keep that going for now and hopefully get a blood test in 2 or 3 months to see if there's an improvement. There are other factors at play when you have liver tumours and general liver hardening, but the green tea obviously wasn 't helping. There are some other adjustments I'm going to have to make as well, as I generally do with poor results. These days I save my diet specifications to a document around the time of the blood test as I lose track over the longer term of what I was eating.

Other than the liver, everything else seemed OK. My long term iron marker ferritin was 32 which is almost at 30 the bottom of the medical range - the scientific bottom is 12. So the teas appeared to be doing their job in limiting iron absorption. Red blood cell count was almost up to normal range, which I could feel recently. I think I'll try alternating the peppermint tea to see if I notice a difference.

brumby33
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby brumby33 » Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:11 pm

Hi fellas & Felines

Well I've been a subscriber to Dr Mandell for some time and this video he talks about white starchy rice that becomes something entirely different if you do one and even two things.

I'll leave this here as I have to go back to work shortly.



Cheers

brumby33
Last edited by brumby33 on Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:58 pm

brumby33 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:11 pm
Well I've been a subscriber to Dr Mandell for some time and this video he talks about white starchy rice that becomes something entirely different if you do one and even two things.

I'll leave this here as I have to go back to work shortly.,,,

Cheers

brumby33
Hi B33,

I know Dr Mandell and yourself are trying to help.

Couple of issues.

One is from the science I've seen on it, the conversion to resistant starch by refigeration is minor. More hype than benefit. I can't remember the numbers but hardly worth doing (which is probably why I can't remember the numbers :)). If you're really looking for fibre to feed the microbiome, then it's legumes, vegetables, grains and fruit IIRC in that general order. You can always find exceptions in each category. Have a look at a food database if you're thinking of increasing you're fibre to increase your short chain fatty acids. The Oz govt food database below.
https://afcd.foodstandards.gov.au/

The other is the tired rhetoric that rice and carb rich foods are bad for you and those are the foods to moderate/avoid. No mention in the video of high fat foods. If that were the case then rural China and much of Asia in the 70s would have been in big trouble.



As posted previously, type 2 diabetes is a fat borne disease by exceeding one's personal fat threshold. The easiest way to do that is eat too much fat. Preferably with animal products because they mess with your hormones also.

The problem is there's too much misinformation out there. This has a lot to do with various food industries' influence. Which is one reason I keep this thread going. To work against the ubiquitous misinformation - to benefit those who can wrest themselves away from their confirmation bias (which we can all suffer from). On the basis of the video you posted I suggest you do yourself a favor and unsubscribe. One needs to carefully select those who are both trustworthy and knowledgable in regards to nutrition in reference to optimum health. Sadly, there aren't that many out there.

Here's an experiment for those without diabetes already. Eat nothing but white rice and low fat vegetables for a couple of months. I'd be surprised if whoever tries it doen't lose weight and sharpen their insulin sensitivity. I've already tried something similar. My diet was 90% carbs and my fasting glucose after was 4.1 mmol/L.
Last edited by Nobody on Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

brumby33
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby brumby33 » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:44 pm

In Japan the white rice is so much sweeter than the rice you get here in Australia and much fluffier. Of course the Japanese mostly use a white short grain more glutenous rice than the Chinese who use long or medium grain but I think one main thing that differentiates us and the Japanese and even the Chinese and other Asian lands is movement.
We (me included) tend to sit a lot in our jobs and in our non-working life whereas in my observation, the Japanese walk a lot, they walk to shopping, they walk to the train station they cycle to the train station, train stations in general have multi-level bicycle parking, almost no long term car parking, in fact if you don't have a registered car space, you cannot park your car unless in paid period car parks and they are bloody small.

From my MIL's house in Chiba, Japan, it's roughly 15-20mins walking each way to the supermarket, 2o minutes to department store and 7 minutes to train station. I walk everywhere when there or go to nearest major City area which is Chiba-shi and there's a lot more walking done so in general, the average Japanese person is very active and is why most are very slim even though they may have 2 to 3 rice based meals daily. They also eat a lot of pickles, fermented foods like Kimchee (Korean style fermented chilli cabbage)
They don't eat much cereals and they are quiet expensive in Japan and very high in sugar and are in much smaller packages than here.

While you have the KFC and Maccas over there, there's just so much more variety in the convenient store like 7-11, Many Japanese will go to one of those stores and buy an already made up Bento box and you can have a nutritious lunch everyday for less than $7.00. The variety is amazing and cheap...try buying a lunch in Australia today for less than $12. Most Japanese would rather buy a Bento box for lunch or dinner than any of the American fast food alternatives. Cheap too, often after about 7PM many of the Bento box meals are half price, or heavily discounted as they are replenished every day.

My wife does most the cooking everyday leaving me to occasionally lite up the BBQ every now and then so we have basically Japanese style fare (home cooking is much different than restaurant Japanese foods) If we do have meat, it's usually Pork Belly or chicken sliced thinly or cut into cubes. I would like to eat more fish but she hates it cooked in the house due to smell. We sometimes eat dumplings (Gyoza) fried in a pan with only a little ricebran oil. But when we are in Japan, there would be at least 7 different dishes to pick a part of including a bowl of rice. Sushi and Sashimi are only occassional foods where raw fish is eaten but you can have sushi rolls with just veggies in the middle if you wish.

Can't wait to go back there!!
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Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:40 pm

Thanks for posting. Interesting.

While there are a lot of nations that are on average more active than us, that activity difference only is 1/5 of the total weight management equation. In other words, diet is 4 times more effective than exercise for weight management. It's possible to be underweight without doing any exercise and very little incidental activity. Just like it's possible - often with difficulty - to cycle oneself thin without changing diet. However cycling didn't work for me over the long term.

As you say, on average it will be their current diet habits from their different culture/lifestyle that are keeping them leaner. As a nation we started from a poor base of basically a diet of meat and sugar. Lately our diet style has been heavily influenced by the American based food businesses/industry.

Eating more fish won't necessarily be the answer to weight management and less healthy than people think. Farmed salmon in particular is high in fat and that fat is 70% saturated. People think they are high in omega-3 fats. For that to happen they have to be fed omega-3 fats. But to my knowledge, they aren't. So it's all a big con. Like a lot of the health claims of many popular foods. Almost everyone is deceived by the food industries. My own family believe farmed salmon is healthy and they won't be convinced otherwise. Confirmation bias at work.

You don't need oil to cook. With a good non-stick pan/wok, frying can be done dry or with a little water or vegetable stock. Commercial oils are almost always heavy in oxidized omega-6 fats. The oxidization happens mainly with the processing. Bad for cancer risk, bad for arterial inflammation.

I've had a number of vege sushi rolls over the years. They're nice to eat, but not an ideal food for me with my illnesses. I eat selected - mainly raw - veg and not much else these days. Generally the same every day. There are a number of foods which appear to raise my AST & ALT liver markers (bad). Rice is one of them which I know from testing. For people with uncompromised livers and without diabetes, rice should be fine.

Moderation can still do a lot of harm, especially if people have issues/genetic susceptibilities. A single bite per day of a known harmful food can be deadly over the long term. Abstinence is far better than moderation. Alcoholics and smokers don't typically succeed by just cutting back or moderating.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:16 pm

For the study, the scientists used two cohorts totalling around 100,000 adults, followed for about 30 years.

The data show that those who consumed sugar-sweetened beverages more than twice a week had a higher risk of cardiovascular disease, regardless of physical activity levels.

Physical activity is insufficient to counter cardiovascular risk associated with sugar-sweetened beverage consumption

Many on these forums tend to believe that cycling and exercise in general is the panecea for health. The above clearly indicates it isn't. Over the decades plenty of fit people have had heart attacks because they weren't carefully watching what they ate and drank. It looks like you can't just "burn it off" after all.

I'm aware that I'm rarely the bringer of good news. But to look at this information a different way. At least if you know what the problems are, then it gives you impetus to do something about it before you become the next victim.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:12 am

Harvard studies five types of diets. Two of them got better results in reducting long term weight gain.

The carb quiz: Test your knowledge of the macronutrient that too often gets a bad rap - ABC news

The last question in the quiz only diabetics that eat rice would know IMO.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:44 pm

Found the video below by accident. The data was interesting. I don't doubt the dietary facts of what they say people used to eat since I've seen similar.

I also agree with much of what they said about modern pollutants, toxins, more processed foods (the main factor) and other factors like lack of sleep, stress, etc, contributiing to modern obesity. What they say about exercise having little to do with obesity, or how many calories people eat has little to do with their exercise is also backed up by some modern studies.

However they try to paint the previous generations as healthy. They may have been thinner, but they had high rates of heart disease.

In their summary at the end, the average macronutrient weights were 400g carbs, 80-100g protein and 100-140g of fat. Using C400g, P100g and F100g, that works out to be a macronutrient ratio in percentages of C55:P14:F31. That isn't far off the average AU diet. Which was C45:P18:F31 with alcohol being 6.6% for adults.

A factor they didn't mention that may be decisive in difference is that modern people tend to eat very often and generally over the whole waking hour period. Where back then people ate 3 times a day or less, without much or any snacking.

I don't recommend that you take their lifestyle/diet advice as from the biases they have already voiced, it's unlikely to be healthy.


Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:22 pm

As a weight loss protocol, I like it. I think it will work long term for most people who aren't real serious about diet, or losing a lot of weight quickly. Since losing weight slowly is how it should be done.

Want to lose weight? Try our restaurant critic’s ‘Sometimes, Always, Never’ strategy - SMH, Good Food

He's big on axing bread. Depending on the bread, probably not the worst food I can think of though. I lost plenty of weight while still eating wholemeal bread.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:20 pm


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:39 am

It appears evident that a number of factors to do with food and obesity got a lot worse from the '80s onward. Many will try to over isolate it and say it was this or that - including me saying it was mainly processed food. The reality is it's multi-faceted and below is one of the significant facets.
The unprecedented rise in the power, scope, and sophistication of food marketing starting around 1980 aligns with the skyrocketing of the obesity epidemic. We like to think we make important life decisions like what to eat consciously and rationally, but if that were the case, we wouldn’t be in the midst of an obesity epidemic.


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:55 pm

New review unpacks what we know about junk food and 32 health issues - ABC NEWS
In high-income countries including Australia and the US, the share of dietary energy derived from UPFs ranges from 42 per cent and 58 per cent, respectively.
42% is high in term of total energy intake. But since UPFs are energy dense, it may only be 20% of products or less to get to that. Something to think about.

It probably goes without saying that 0% of my diet is ultra-processed. Everything I buy in a packet has a single, whole ingredient.

I don't want to get into the politics of food. But I agree with the last statments:
Researchers say there also needs to be more consideration around availability and access to fresh and healthy food.

And more support should be provided to family farmers, and independent businesses that grow, make, and sell unprocessed or minimally processed foods.
I've probably been saying this for a long time on these threads. Despite what some will tell you, it's expensive - especially per calorie - to buy healthy, fresh food in AU. UPFs are often the cheapest foods that can be bought per calorie, like 2 minute noodles. A previous post on it here.

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