Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

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Thoglette
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Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby Thoglette » Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:31 pm

Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees
By Antonia Cimini and Louise Dalmasso
November 23, 20233:23 AM GMT+8Updated 3 days ago

The SUV-sity tax.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:30 pm

The pictured one isn't particularly big either.

It would be interesting to see similar things happen here, but they are politically too important. Attack SUVs in Australia and you'll get voted out.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby bychosis » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:18 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:30 pm
Attack SUVs in Australia and you'll get voted out.
Definitely. But mainly because everyone who owns a large SUV believes they don’t live in the inner city. They’re just visiting between long journeys to the outback.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby am50em » Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:25 am

Not just SUVs.
City Hall wants to introduce higher parking fees for thermal engine cars weighing over 1.6 tonnes and for electric vehicles over two tonnes.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:48 pm

bychosis wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:18 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:30 pm
Attack SUVs in Australia and you'll get voted out.
Definitely. But mainly because everyone who owns a large SUV believes they don’t live in the inner city. They’re just visiting between long journeys to the outback.
SUVs are ideal for rugged outback suburban areas. As for "inner city" I can imagine some of the rhetoric about those areas from the SUV and ute driving groups.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby JPB » Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:31 pm

While 1600kg sounds highish it really isn't.
My wife's Hyundai Santa Fe is over 1700kg and I would only class that as mid size.
Hybrid RAV4 is 1680kg while a petrol one is just under 1600kg
Forester is just under 1600kg

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby bychosis » Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:07 pm

You might consider a Santa Fe mid sized here in Aussie land, but in narrow Parisian streets would be quite big, especially compared to a Renault Clio. It’s all relative. Wasn’t that long ago that it was the largest passenger vehicle sold by Hyundai. In the same category as Kluger and other 7 seaters.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:19 am

JPB wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:31 pm
While 1600kg sounds highish it really isn't.
My wife's Hyundai Santa Fe is over 1700kg and I would only class that as mid size.
Hybrid RAV4 is 1680kg while a petrol one is just under 1600kg
Forester is just under 1600kg
Over there it is quite big. For them, a small car is a Smart or a little Fiat Panda 4x4 or VW Up! So a Santa-Fe is pretty enormous.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:07 am

g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:19 am
JPB wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:31 pm
While 1600kg sounds highish it really isn't.
My wife's Hyundai Santa Fe is over 1700kg and I would only class that as mid size.
Hybrid RAV4 is 1680kg while a petrol one is just under 1600kg
Forester is just under 1600kg
Over there it is quite big. For them, a small car is a Smart or a little Fiat Panda 4x4 or VW Up! So a Santa-Fe is pretty enormous.
https://www.cartrade.com/toyota-cars/ca ... 01665%20kg.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:15 am

Size is all relative. We're looking at visiting Japan next year and for rental cars Corollas come under the 'large car' category.

I've done some driving in Europe in a rental Audi S6. It was unpleasantly large. Lots of narrow streets and short parks.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:18 am

Mr Purple wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:15 am
Size is all relative. We're looking at visiting Japan next year and for rental cars Corollas come under the 'large car' category.

I've done some driving in Europe in a rental Audi S6. It was unpleasantly large. Lots of narrow streets and short parks.
The wagons especially - some of the roads are really really narrow and if a bus or truck comes the other way you end up having to reverse back until a wider part. You have a building wall on each side, no footpath even, just a narrow road way. It's quite awkward.

Also rather interesting on a bicycle. ;)

I can't imagine what it must be like living in those buildings with cars, trucks and buses going right past your windows and doors. They are usually going pretty slowly at 20km/h or so.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby Thoglette » Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:28 pm

Additional commentary in The Guardian by Alexander Hurst
Paris is saying ‘non’ to a US-style hellscape of supersized cars – and so should the rest of Europe

He notes that Telsa's truck requires an actual truck license in Europe, due to its weight.

There's a link to an interesting article on the (de)evolution of the F-150 since the 70s How pickup trucks became so imposing which has a range of great images (like below)
Image
Image
Survey data from vehicle research firm Strategic Vision shows a third of today’s pickup owners rarely or never use their truck for hauling, while two-thirds rarely or never use it for towing.

Instead, experts say, much of the big pickup mania is being driven by consumers' self-image.
"Today, personality and imagery are playing an even more important role in how consumers choose which truck is right for them," Strategic Vision researcher Alexander Edwards told Axios.
The firm surveys owners each year about the character traits they associate with their vehicle. Two words set F-150 owners apart: “powerful” and “rugged.”
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby bychosis » Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:12 am

Thoglette wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:28 pm
He notes that Telsa's truck requires an actual truck license in Europe, due to its weight.
Was under the impression it wasn’t going to be sold in Europe because it won’t meet the pedestrian protection standards.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:49 pm

Et maintenant
Paris votes in support of referendum to triple-charge SUV parking in bid to become fully bikeable city

Select quotes :
It's going to be about 200 euros a day,
says a Parisian who’s not aware that they’re exempt :
“People living or working in Paris, taxi drivers, tradespeople, health workers and people with disabilities will all be exempt.”

I’m not sure who’s actually going to be paying

Meanwhile
If we don't stop it now, this unjustified rebellion led by an ultra-urban and anti-car minority will spread like gangrene to other cities.
- motorists' lobby group "40 millions d'automobilistes"
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:24 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2023 10:28 pm

There's a link to an interesting article on the (de)evolution of the F-150 since the 70s How pickup trucks became so imposing which has a range of great images (like below)
Survey data from vehicle research firm Strategic Vision shows a third of today’s pickup owners rarely or never use their truck for hauling, while two-thirds rarely or never use it for towing.

Instead, experts say, much of the big pickup mania is being driven by consumers' self-image.
"Today, personality and imagery are playing an even more important role in how consumers choose which truck is right for them," Strategic Vision researcher Alexander Edwards told Axios.
The firm surveys owners each year about the character traits they associate with their vehicle. Two words set F-150 owners apart: “powerful” and “rugged.”
Something else interesting with size, the so-called "Rambo Lambo" the Lamborghini Militaria 002 (LM002) is actually quite a bit smaller than a lot of vehicles on the road despite it's chunky appearance:

http://egarage.com/car-profiles/lamborg ... -red-hood/

Lamborghini LM002
Length 4,790 mm (188.6 in)
Width 2,000 mm (78.7 in)
Height 1,850 mm (72.8 in)
Curb weight 2,700 kg (5,952 lb)

It is very high however due to its big ground clearance and is also pretty wide with those huge off-road tyres. It was originally intended to do the same job as the Humvee. But it shows how much vehicles have grown.

Also very unusual is that it is not a ladder frame like most off-roaders but a multi-tubular steel construction like a Countach, Diablo or some older race cars (917/936 Porsche) but at the size of a big dune-buggy.

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:25 am

So this is why SUVs and mega-utes are so popular:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 0299a4f4ae

One of the comments (removed) reckoned it was the only way for normal people to escape the city if things "went ugly". :roll:

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby CmdrBiggles » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:23 am

g-boaf wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:25 am
So this is why SUVs and mega-utes are so popular:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 0299a4f4ae

One of the comments (removed) reckoned it was the only way for normal people to escape the city if things "went ugly". :roll:

It would seem these contraptions are No. 1 in popularity in G-Town. For the life of me I cannot see the appeal of adopting an American travesty.

One coming around a roundabout as I was walking yesterday looked like it had the directional stability of a heavily pregnant albatross. Ideal "Look at Moi!"/ego-upper chariots for small !!! spammer !!! guys with a snarling mastiff on the passenger seat, beer-barrel guts, skull rings and MUMMY, DADDY tattooed over their fingers. Seriously, whatever powers look up to these things also should look askance at the safety of other road users — drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, motorcyclists, all vanish completely by the obstructive view these monsters present on the roads, never mind about how they are parked that creates a whole new accident-waiting-to-happen scenario!
Somebody will have their day in court that will be a watershed moment and catalyst for dramatic change.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:52 pm

CmdrBiggles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:23 am
g-boaf wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:25 am
So this is why SUVs and mega-utes are so popular:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 0299a4f4ae

One of the comments (removed) reckoned it was the only way for normal people to escape the city if things "went ugly". :roll:

It would seem these contraptions are No. 1 in popularity in G-Town. For the life of me I cannot see the appeal of adopting an American travesty.

Apparently it's also because Albo makes too many plane trips and the solution to these cars is to "make parking spaces bigger. Get rid of oversized/under utilised bike lanes. Simple"

According to a comment on the article. :roll:

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby warthog1 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:10 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:52 pm
CmdrBiggles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:23 am
g-boaf wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:25 am
So this is why SUVs and mega-utes are so popular:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 0299a4f4ae

One of the comments (removed) reckoned it was the only way for normal people to escape the city if things "went ugly". :roll:

It would seem these contraptions are No. 1 in popularity in G-Town. For the life of me I cannot see the appeal of adopting an American travesty.

Apparently it's also because Albo makes too many plane trips and the solution to these cars is to "make parking spaces bigger. Get rid of oversized/under utilised bike lanes. Simple"

According to a comment on the article. :roll:
It is a newscorp article. It is far better for ones mental health to just avoid altogether. It is well known to be a political tool masquerading as news.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby uart » Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:26 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:25 am
So this is why SUVs and mega-utes are so popular:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 0299a4f4ae
warthog1 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:10 pm
It is a newscorp article. It is far better for ones mental health to just avoid altogether. It is well known to be a political tool masquerading as news.
Didn't bother reading the comments, but the article itself seems right on point to me. What particular political bias are you seeing there?
- He noted that, according to the Australian Taxation Office (ATO), “if a vehicle can carry more than one tonne of cargo it must be a ‘commercial vehicle’, even if the vehicle never carries anything heavier than a laptop”, and “if you or your employer buys you a ‘commercial vehicle’ for work purposes, you don’t have to worry about that pesky fringe benefits tax or even keep track of the percentage of your car use for work or personal matters”.
- “How can this be?” he said.
- “It’s because, as the ATO sees it, what are the odds people would choose to drive a huge twin-cab ute around the city if they weren’t carrying lots of cargo?”
.
Yeah, what are the chances of *that* happening. :?

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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:42 pm

uart wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:26 pm
[


Didn't bother reading the comments, but the article itself seems right on point to me. What particular political bias are you seeing there?
It's Newscorp so Murdoch media. In general right wing bias, quite often heavily so.
I did not read the article as it simply isn't worth the time, given the history of the nonsense put forth by it.
If it had some honesty and factual basis it is a surprise.
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Re: Paris aims to drive out large SUVs by increasing parking fees

Postby Thoglette » Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:40 am

uart wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:26 pm
Didn't bother reading the comments, but the article itself seems right on point to me. What particular political bias are you seeing there?
Well, start with quoting Australian Automotive Dealers Association boss James Voortman's utter rubbish without bothering to observe what's happening in the rest of the world, what the majority of economists are saying, or what the car makers themselves (e.g. VW) are saying.

A standard "We like your News Limited" approach to any topic they think The Boss has a view on.

And it''ll appear "on point" because every Murdoch outlet, from The Australian to Fox News to the local "Community Paper" will be singing exactly the same song and in lock step.
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