7100 105 12s mechanical

Mr Purple
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby Mr Purple » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:31 pm

Duck! wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:29 pm
Disregard groupset. Headset cable routing is quite probably the most phuqed-up design "innovations" the bike industry has ever invented. It's bad for mechanical cables (friction). It's bad for electronics (pinch points that can cut wires), bad for hydraulics (can kink hoses, blocking fluid flow), and just makes services that should be relatively simple processes a lot harder than they should be. It's just a plain dumb and potentially dangerous idea.
I actually agree with you, but moreso on the maintenance and ease of replacement front.

However my experience with Shimano disc mechanical has taught me the routing makes no difference. I've had the same groupset on internally and externally routed bikes and consistently got less than 3000km before a snapped RD cable on both. I've had a GRX600 groupset do the same. 2700km before the first snapped RD cable. The RD cables all snap at exactly the same place - it's a design fault (or feature) with the shifters.

External are much easier to change at least . I wouldn't buy an internally routed/headset cable routed bike. In fact I will never buy another cable/hydraulic Shimano groupset fullstop. Which is probably their intention. It's just another regular point of failure and it's a pain when it happens.

warthog1
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby warthog1 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:39 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:31 pm
Duck! wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:29 pm
Disregard groupset. Headset cable routing is quite probably the most phuqed-up design "innovations" the bike industry has ever invented. It's bad for mechanical cables (friction). It's bad for electronics (pinch points that can cut wires), bad for hydraulics (can kink hoses, blocking fluid flow), and just makes services that should be relatively simple processes a lot harder than they should be. It's just a plain dumb and potentially dangerous idea.
I actually agree with you, but moreso on the maintenance and ease of replacement front.

However my experience with Shimano disc mechanical has taught me the routing makes no difference. I've had the same groupset on internally and externally routed bikes and consistently got less than 3000km before a snapped RD cable on both. I've had a GRX600 groupset do the same. 2700km before the first snapped RD cable. The RD cables all snap at exactly the same place - it's a design fault (or feature) with the shifters.

External are much easier to change at least . I wouldn't buy an internally routed/headset cable routed bike. In fact I will never buy another cable/hydraulic Shimano groupset fullstop. Which is probably their intention. It's just another regular point of failure and it's a pain when it happens.
I got just over 9000km out of my r7000 105 groupo rear derailleur cable on my TCR, just replaced it.
First indication it was in trouble was failure to shift down the cassette. Been slack and hadn't bothered looking at the cable as I've bee riding the Revolt more.
Pulled it out and it was a mess and down to 2 strands :oops:
I don't recall ever having cable fail in less than 5k km.
Over 150k km on my Strava, all of it cable operated Shimano.
My Revolt has GRX600 shifters and went to over 7500km. Replaced whilst still intact.

With all that climbing you do you must just be changing gears a hell of a lot :o
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AndrewCowley
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby AndrewCowley » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:19 pm

I get about 3000km out of my Ultegra R8000 front and rear derailleur cables. Hilly rides and a lot of gearshifts. Lack of cable longevity is a major Shimano weakness.

warthog1
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby warthog1 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:16 pm

Rolling hills here. Wouldn't say I'm not shifting gears much.
Optislick cables are the go from feedback on here.

If mine were snapping so quickly maybe I would go di2.
The cable on the TCR was a piece of pi ss to change and all internally routed. Must've done something right there when I built it up. :)
Was a $450- ebay frame after I wrecked another frame.
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g-boaf
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby g-boaf » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:09 pm

Having built some 2013/2014 vintage TCR Advanced SL frames up with Dura Ace 11 speed mechanical I can definitely say that you are good to spend more time setting up the cable routing properly and you'll save yourself a lot of grief later on.

I only ever had one Shimano cable die on me while I was on the road - fortunately not in very tough terrain.

Mr Purple
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby Mr Purple » Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:43 am

g-boaf wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:09 pm
Having built some 2013/2014 vintage TCR Advanced SL frames up with Dura Ace 11 speed mechanical I can definitely say that you are good to spend more time setting up the cable routing properly and you'll save yourself a lot of grief later on.

I only ever had one Shimano cable die on me while I was on the road - fortunately not in very tough terrain.
I've had it happen enough times on Cootha that I know how to get home easily in a combination of 11th and 22nd gears.

Strangely enough that coincides with my fastest times over some of those segments!

Dave_rh
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby Dave_rh » Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:40 am

I wonder if the new GRX 12 speed mechanical shifters are compatible (cable pull) with the 105 12 speed mechanical derailleurs?

Might be an option to mix & match.

warthog1
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:09 am

^^It seems so :)

Beyond these changes, they’re a familiar product under the surface with cable routing from the top and the serviceable/adjustable clutch mechanism for chain retention (unlike the non-serviceable SRAM Apex). That said, they do use a revised cable pull ratio, that according to Shimano, is officially not cross-compatible with 11-speed road or Shimano’s MTB 12-speed components. These new derailleurs are, however, cross-compatible with the freshly released Shimano 105 R7100 12-speed shifters.

https://escapecollective.com/shimano-gr ... s-on-look/
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blizzard
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby blizzard » Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:41 am

Yes GRX levers will work with the 105 RD as per Shimanos compatibility chart https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?c ... acid=C-450

warthog1
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Re: 7100 105 12s mechanical

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:51 am

blizzard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:41 am
Yes GRX levers will work with the 105 RD as per Shimanos compatibility chart https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?c ... acid=C-450
Good link, thanks :)
It seems like the 2 rear derailleurs have the same capacity. I am guessing just no clutch on the 105 goer.

Nope, read it as you can click on the derailleur model text. 1 tooth more capacity for GRX and yes a clutch. Same upper limit apparently, but they are conservative with what they spec normally I believe.
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