Gravel lube.

Mr Purple
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby Mr Purple » Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:42 am

lone rider wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:27 pm
Got sick of using Squirt. I feel like it's just not suitable for Gravel/MTB regardless of what the marketing says, the chain feels dry way too quickly. I saw the Silca guy on a video say he believes it's too thick to get into the rollers and I think I agree. Bought some flower power about a month ago after Zero friction gave a glowing review. It went on just like a drip based wax lube but when it dried it wasnt as gunky as others I've used. Winter riding will be the test but I have a feeling this will be better just on how the chain feels by hand.
I've been using 'Squirt' for my gravel chain with no great concerns.

However it's been wet and muddy as all out up here so basically my bike needs to be washed after every ride anyway. Probably not a great judge of how well it's staying on then.

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Tue Mar 19, 2024 9:04 pm

Nobody wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:04 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:38 pm
I drop the chain in a staminade container with about 25mm deep bath of mineral turps. Let it soak and swish it around. Then do the same with methylated spirits twice. I tip the fluids on my firewood stack.
Using flower power wax at the moment but have used a few others.
Doing the same for road and gravel. Oil based lubes are pretty soon grinding paste on the gravel and much harder to clean.
That'll do me. I am sure a wax bath is better but I simply cant be bothered.

Thanks for posting. The video was more interesting than I thought it was going to be.

I'm just reading ZFC's "Key Learnings From Lubricant Testing"
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... g-2.3a.pdf

He makes a good case for top performance immersive waxing products. If I had something better than an old 26" rigid MTB with a cheap drive train I might consider it.
Thanks. I have had a quick look too. He makes a strong case for immersive waxing. I am going to get one of the cheap slow cookers he recommends and give it a go.
Have 3 new chains waiting to go.
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MichaelB
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby MichaelB » Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:46 pm

Can’t say enough about hot waxing.

Best thing since disc brakes !!

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:08 pm

Got an adesso slow cooker from woolies today. Will order some silca wax and silca drip wax as gplama used.
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Mr Purple
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby Mr Purple » Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:52 pm

Had the gravel bike serviced by a proper mobile mechanic today.

He confirms the Squirt isn't doing the chain any great favours - the ominous noise coming from the drivetrain appears to have been lateral movement, which is not great because it is (was) a 1000km old chain.

Strangely enough he recommends using a wax lube, wiping off excess and then using wet lube over the top. Given I have both sitting around it seems reasonable. Absolutely hates chain waxing as well, not sure on the reasons.

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biker jk
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby biker jk » Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:16 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:08 pm
Got an adesso slow cooker from woolies today. Will order some silca wax and silca drip wax as gplama used.
Some cycling friends have found that the Silca drip wax remains wet and attracts dirt, leaving the drivetrain pretty grimy. Chain wear rates are much high than immersive waxing (which is what I do with my three bikes).

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:29 pm

biker jk wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:16 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:08 pm
Got an adesso slow cooker from woolies today. Will order some silca wax and silca drip wax as gplama used.
Some cycling friends have found that the Silca drip wax remains wet and attracts dirt, leaving the drivetrain pretty grimy. Chain wear rates are much high than immersive waxing (which is what I do with my three bikes).
Thanks. :) I'll see how it goes and keep an eye on it.

GPLama got 15k km out of his gravel chain using hot melt every 1000k and silca super secret drip wax between the hot melt applications. Cant be bothered watching it again but I don't think he mentioned how often he uses the drip wax between hot melt. Mentions the drip early on.



If immersive waxing is eay enough I may just do that though. I dont ride in the wet.
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biker jk
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby biker jk » Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:35 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:29 pm
biker jk wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:16 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:08 pm
Got an adesso slow cooker from woolies today. Will order some silca wax and silca drip wax as gplama used.
Some cycling friends have found that the Silca drip wax remains wet and attracts dirt, leaving the drivetrain pretty grimy. Chain wear rates are much high than immersive waxing (which is what I do with my three bikes).
Thanks. :) I'll see how it goes and keep an eye on it.

GPLama got 15k km out of his gravel chain using hot melt every 1000k and silca super secret drip wax between the hot melt applications. Cant be bothered watching it again but I don't think he mentioned how often he uses the drip wax between hot melt. Mentions the drip early on.



If immersive waxing is eay enough I may just do that though. I dont ride in the wet.
Might be a Sydney thing given the high humidity leading to the water based carrier in the Silca drip wax not evaporating. My friend's chain wear rate suggests a likely life of 7,500km.

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:39 pm

biker jk wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:35 pm


Might be a Sydney thing given the high humidity leading to the water based carrier in the Silca drip wax not evaporating. My friend's chain wear rate suggests a likely life of 7,500km.
No worries, could be. I will see how it goes here, might be so bloody cold soon that it doesn't evaporate either.
Back in the arm warmers and undershirt in the middle of the day already :(
Thanks for the feedback.
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blizzard
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby blizzard » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:29 am

Mr Purple wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:52 pm
Had the gravel bike serviced by a proper mobile mechanic today.

He confirms the Squirt isn't doing the chain any great favours - the ominous noise coming from the drivetrain appears to have been lateral movement, which is not great because it is (was) a 1000km old chain.

Strangely enough he recommends using a wax lube, wiping off excess and then using wet lube over the top. Given I have both sitting around it seems reasonable. Absolutely hates chain waxing as well, not sure on the reasons.
Sounds like the worst of both worlds. I can't see for wax + wet lube performs better then wax on its own, maybe slightly better than just wet lube for the very first application, and probably more faff than doing either in isolation.

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MichaelB
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby MichaelB » Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:51 am

blizzard wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:29 am
Mr Purple wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:52 pm
Had the gravel bike serviced by a proper mobile mechanic today.

He confirms the Squirt isn't doing the chain any great favours - the ominous noise coming from the drivetrain appears to have been lateral movement, which is not great because it is (was) a 1000km old chain.

Strangely enough he recommends using a wax lube, wiping off excess and then using wet lube over the top. Given I have both sitting around it seems reasonable. Absolutely hates chain waxing as well, not sure on the reasons.
Sounds like the worst of both worlds. I can't see for wax + wet lube performs better then wax on its own, maybe slightly better than just wet lube for the very first application, and probably more faff than doing either in isolation.
I use the immersive wax only. I do however have some of the Banana Slip wet lube as a backup for post rain rises (recommended by ZFC, but to date haven't used it.

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:48 am

Key Learning 1 - Do NOT use wet lubricants if
you ride off road.



There is dust off road. Often lots of it. And it will be abrasive.
Ø Dust WILL stick on contact to a wet lubricant treated chain. This is
physics. There is no getting around it.
Ø Wet lubricants DO NOT CLEAN AS THEY LUBRICATE. They are actively
attracting and holding contamination. The ratio of abrasive
contamination to lubricant will continue to degrade the longer you keep
riding without fully solvent flush cleaning the chain.
Ø Dust is not low friction. The level of abrasiveness varies a lot (ie quarry
rock dust vs soft soil dust). But it is all abrasive against your chain metal
under the enormous pressures found inside your bicycle chain under
your pedaling load.


https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... g-2.3a.pdf
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Nobody
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:55 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:48 am
Key Learning 1 - Do NOT use wet lubricants if
you ride off road.



There is dust off road. Often lots of it. And it will be abrasive.
Ø Dust WILL stick on contact to a wet lubricant treated chain. This is
physics. There is no getting around it.
Ø Wet lubricants DO NOT CLEAN AS THEY LUBRICATE. They are actively
attracting and holding contamination. The ratio of abrasive
contamination to lubricant will continue to degrade the longer you keep
riding without fully solvent flush cleaning the chain.
Ø Dust is not low friction. The level of abrasiveness varies a lot (ie quarry
rock dust vs soft soil dust). But it is all abrasive against your chain metal
under the enormous pressures found inside your bicycle chain under
your pedaling load.


https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... g-2.3a.pdf
Can't disagree. But I still do it. It works OK for me because I try to keep wiping until the chain is quite dry. The other reason being my drivetrain is almost as budget as they come. It's cheap enough and lasts long enough that it doesn't send me broke.

Sometimes I've learnt from poor people. They do what they do because it's the cheapest option. Many times it's worked for me too.

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:35 pm

He is effectively saying it is not the cheapest option. It will turn to grinding paste and wear out your drivetrain. You can't wipe away dust once it is inside the rollers.

I expect you no longer ride much perhaps and not on the dirt?
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Nobody
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:25 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:35 pm
I expect you no longer ride much perhaps and not on the dirt?
My riding has been dirt focused since I got here over 4 years ago. There is a road component to get to the fire trails at the end of my street (yes I know I'm fortunate compared to a lot of people). My last place was quite close to Sydney Olympic Park (SOP) so I was fortunate there too. Neither house was selected because of the riding potential. I just make do.

Yes, I don't do a lot of riding anymore. Another advantage financially, but not one many on these forums would want. Four tumours has changed my lifestyle and energy levels. I'm hopefully in the process of changing that somewhat.

Like I might have mentioned. If I start doing a lot more kms or buy a better XC MTB - both could be likely in the next two years - then I'll probably try a hot melt wax solution. I already have a spare pressure cooker in the workshop that could be used. But right now, the cheap and cheerful drip wet lube works for me.

This might be a good time to mention that I have a motorcycle with a D.I.D. X-ring 520 chain on it. It has never been cleaned and I have only used 140 weight transmission oil on it when it starts looking a bit dry. The excess is spun off at about 120 km/h on the track stand. No wiping it either. It is used on the road, but it has done about 30,000 km so far and I'm expecting about 50,000 km. They are good figures for a road MC chain that doesn't have a dedicated (total loss) chain oiler. So lubing chains with oil is a lot better than nothing. Chain waxing for MCs isn't a viable option because they are hard to get off.

warthog1
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Re: Gravel lube.

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:32 pm

Nobody wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:25 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:35 pm
I expect you no longer ride much perhaps and not on the dirt?
My riding has been dirt focused since I got here over 4 years ago. There is a road component to get to the fire trails at the end of my street (yes I know I'm fortunate compared to a lot of people). My last place was quite close to Sydney Olympic Park (SOP) so I was fortunate there too. Neither house was selected because of the riding potential. I just make do.

Yes, I don't do a lot of riding anymore. Another advantage financially, but not one many on these forums would want. Four tumours has changed my lifestyle and energy levels. I'm hopefully in the process of changing that somewhat.

Like I might have mentioned. If I start doing a lot more kms or buy a better XC MTB - both could be likely in the next two years - then I'll probably try a hot melt wax solution. I already have a spare pressure cooker in the workshop that could be used. But right now, the cheap and cheerful drip wet lube works for me.

This might be a good time to mention that I have a motorcycle with a D.I.D. X-ring 520 chain on it. It has never been cleaned and I have only used 140 weight transmission oil on it when it starts looking a bit dry. The excess is spun off at about 120 km/h on the track stand. No wiping it either. It is used on the road, but it has done about 30,000 km so far and I'm expecting about 50,000 km. They are good figures for a road MC chain that doesn't have a dedicated (total loss) chain oiler. So lubing chains with oil is a lot better than nothing.
I hope your tumours are on the way to being resolved.

Years since I rode motorbikes, but yes the o ring system puts them way ahead of bicycles. The o ring seals in lube and seals out contamination to a large extent I assume.
I expect we wouldn't want the presumably increased drag on a bicycle too. Along with increaeed chain width making multiple geared cassettes impractical I expect.
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