Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

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MichaelB
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:31 am

MichaelB wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:09 pm
Sabgal-Anicolor (ex Lidl-Trek) Antwan Tolhoek allegedly tests positive to Anabolic Androgenic steroids in an out of comp test on 27th Nov 23.

Yikes
What I find interesting is that he was a darling at TJV, then left there and then dropped out of the WT and then this.

Writing on the wall for a while then ?

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g-boaf
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby g-boaf » Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:44 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:29 am
g-boaf wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:19 pm
MichaelB wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:09 pm
Sabgal-Anicolor (ex Lidl-Trek) Antwan Tolhoek allegedly tests positive to Anabolic Androgenic steroids in an out of comp test on 27th Nov 23.

Yikes
Maybe he can join the enhanced games...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/swimming/t ... 5f3k3.html

Whole thing seems like a publicity stunt but probably a whole bunch of people ready to trash their health for some dollars. Let's see how they are at 60 years old or so if they put this rubbish in their systems.
If that is actually true and exactly what he said, I find it REALLY disappointing that a world class athlete would do that, JUST for the money, and lets face it, $1M isn't that much anymore (esp after tax !).

I thought decent aussie sports peeps were better than that sort of crap :cry:
Apparently locked in:
https://www.news.com.au/sport/olympics/ ... 4aec2996c6

How about making this a criminal act and having mandatory time in prison for it and confiscation of the proceeds of the crime?

That would stop it and deter others.

Otherwise I hope he doesn't expect society to come running after him at 50-60yo when he's got serious health problems. Make him pay for it all himself if he wants go forward with doping.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm

The Enhanced games are an olympic style event open to doping and is gaining growing attention. Doesn’t yet include cycling and being backed by billionaires already feels like one of those ideas that can easily fail.

As you can guess, a lot of medical objections and will be interesting that countries that also generally ban various doping substances have an environment that will make it chalkenging for athletes who want to juice to the max.

But this idea of a level playing field is not new… except that it is never really level, but still a combination of physical capacity, training and applying the right substances in the right way.

In any case, will be something to watch. Here is an article in The Guardian and below links to further related articles:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... lash-grows
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MichaelB
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:33 am

AUbicycles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm
The Enhanced games ...

In any case, will be something to watch. ....
Actually, I'm so disgusted by it, not bothering to read anymore about it.

Just sadly highlights that some people will do anything for money, even if it is totally stupid.

Common sense is a misnomer.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby foo on patrol » Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:22 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:33 am
AUbicycles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm
The Enhanced games ...

In any case, will be something to watch. ....
Actually, I'm so disgusted by it, not bothering to read anymore about it.

Just sadly highlights that some people will do anything for money, even if it is totally stupid.

Common sense is a misnomer.

Agree, it says a lot about his integrity! :roll:

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby elantra » Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:01 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:19 pm

Maybe he can join the enhanced games...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/swimming/t ... 5f3k3.html

Whole thing seems like a publicity stunt but probably a whole bunch of people ready to trash their health for some dollars. Let's see how they are at 60 years old or so if they put this rubbish in their systems.
The concept of an “enhanced games” is so sad…

Sad because it sends a message to millions of people that “win at any cost” mentality is acceptable.
Also that you can buy success by having the biggest bank vault (for pharmaceuticals and supplements).

And also ignores the issue of catastrophic short-term or long-term adverse health effects, and the resulting cost to society.

The whole concept of sport is that it has rules, values and ethos, unlike other things like war (and perhaps business)
And yes some people will always try and cheat those rules, but that is not a reason to depart from the concept of sport.

You could be forgiven for thinking that the world is going backwards, which it probably has.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:18 pm

foo on patrol wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:22 pm
MichaelB wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:33 am
AUbicycles wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm
The Enhanced games ...

In any case, will be something to watch. ....
Actually, I'm so disgusted by it, not bothering to read anymore about it.

Just sadly highlights that some people will do anything for money, even if it is totally stupid.

Common sense is a misnomer.

Agree, it says a lot about his integrity! :roll:

Foo
I’m totally with you both. Hope he gets hell for it. Totally disgraceful.

I’ll guess we’ll all be called out on that.

I’m trying to get back from an accident to the level where I was and no taking dodgy substances, just lots of hard work. That’s why I find it so disgusting.

The flaks will cheer and say how great it is and how they are gonna win so big, it’ll be yuuuuge, glad we’ve offended people, etc. :roll:

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:30 am

The fact that the event can go ahead speaks volumes for the law as well.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby vosadrian » Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:56 am

What am I missing here? If the event specifically says that you are allowed to enhance, why would it be cheating to do so? Are there any performance enhancing drugs that are illegal when not used to cheat at sport?

I would prefer all sports involved no drugs or other cheating, but it is hard to police that. We don't know how many cycling races in recent time have been effected by cheating. At least this it would not be cheating.

Also, every person can make their own decision. If people want to risk their health to achieve some benefit, their choice. I don't stop people drinking alcohol to excess or riding a motorbike without safety gear.

I am actually interested in what sort of improvement would happen as a result of enhancement. I have no issue with it going, but I don;t want or expect it will ever be popular like normal non-enhance sports.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Feb 15, 2024 12:36 pm

vosadrian wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:56 am
What am I missing here? If the event specifically says that you are allowed to enhance, why would it be cheating to do so? Are there any performance enhancing drugs that are illegal when not used to cheat at sport?

I would prefer all sports involved no drugs or other cheating, but it is hard to police that. We don't know how many cycling races in recent time have been effected by cheating. At least this it would not be cheating.

Also, every person can make their own decision. If people want to risk their health to achieve some benefit, their choice. I don't stop people drinking alcohol to excess or riding a motorbike without safety gear.

I am actually interested in what sort of improvement would happen as a result of enhancement. I have no issue with it going, but I don;t want or expect it will ever be popular like normal non-enhance sports.


There's a big list of drugs on the list of banned substances, some you can get over the counter in different countries but it's the quantities that you're required to take that gives the kick along. :idea: If they were legal drugs, why do you think that they use masking drugs too hide the boosters? :?:

I have no problem with taking over the counter drugs = vitamins and extracts of various plants but as soon as you start talking intravenous dosing that's another matter and a pox on anyone doing it.

There was a Youtube video done some years ago by a bloke that delved into illegal crud and it followed his progression and how he along with the Dr that was getting the drugs would manage things so as not to get caught by the testers.

Everything that I achieved, I did clean but the same can't be said about some of the riders of my time and you could see the change = They would show up at a meet and suddenly be so much stronger and faster than me and that doesn't happen quickly, especially when you have been racing against them for a while and know their body shape has changed out of the blue. You can tell when someone has genuine talent and ability, it's when an average joe suddenly goes from a good B-grade rider to an A-grade rider within a few months that the alarm bells go off. :idea:

Foo
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:44 pm

vosadrian wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:56 am
What am I missing here? If the event specifically says that you are allowed to enhance, why would it be cheating to do so? Are there any performance enhancing drugs that are illegal when not used to cheat at sport?
In Australia at least, almost every drug that is performance enhancing is illegal - the vast majority are Schedule 8 drugs, along with drugs of addiction.

Most PEDs have a legitimate medical use, but these are tightly controlled as to who can prescribe it, quantities, circumstances etc. This is monitored down to individual doctors, patients & pharmacys. There would now be a big red flag raised if James Magnussen was prescribed any schedule 8 drugs
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:58 pm

vosadrian wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 10:56 am
What am I missing here? If the event specifically says that you are allowed to enhance, why would it be cheating to do so? Are there any performance enhancing drugs that are illegal when not used to cheat at sport?

...
For me, it's the moral/ethical angle. Simple.

The other side is the cynical - someone who doesn't do all of the medically damaging doping makes MUCH more money, and it's all about the money. They couldn't care what happens to the athletes, before, during or after.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:07 am

Something to watch… no matter your position on it, the organiser / fanancier will push it publicity. For the controversy alone, the media will follow and publicise it.

I am curious how it pans out and have my ideas what will likely happens

From an ethical standpoint, it also indicates that the definition of doping is grey. New approaches that are not formally banned and eventually will be, are arguably legal until that point. This goes for supplements, techniques, equipment and other activities to impact performance.

If swimming is a sport at the enhanced games… then strapping a jet motor to the feet would just be an enhancement….
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby vosadrian » Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:49 am

I was mostly taking issue with the idea it was "cheating" to use drugs at the enhanced games.... when clearly it is accepted withing the rules so is not cheating.

I guess I am also a person who applauds engineers who find loopholes in F1 to introduce innovations that bring a competitive advantage. Of course the loopholes may eventually be closed or everyone else copies, but I like that innovation continues.

For individual sports with minimal equipment, I think it should be about the athletic ability and mental strength of the athlete. I would prefer drugs could not enhance.... but they can, and it happens regularly without us knowing about it most of the time except for the occasional person that gets caught. But it does make me curious how much the benefit is. I think the enhance games would give us an idea if some of the athletes documented their change in performance as they started using.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby RonK » Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:45 am

130 out of 182 riders abandon due to presence of drug testers.

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/thi ... local-race
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MichaelB
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:17 pm

RonK wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:45 am
130 out of 182 riders abandon due to presence of drug testers.

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/thi ... local-race
:roll:

Nope nothing to see here.

Especially no riders ....

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MichaelB
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Thu May 30, 2024 12:12 pm

MA Lopez suspended till mid 2027
The UCI has suspended Miguel Ángel López until 2027 for the “use and possession of a prohibited substance (Menotropin), concomitantly with the 2022 Giro d’Italia.”

The 30-year-old Colombian, a Tour de France stage winner and a general classification podium finisher at both the Giro d’Italia and the Vuelta a España, has been provisionally suspended since July 25, 2023, for what was then called a “potential anti-doping rule violation.”

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