War on cars

jasonc
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Re: War on cars

Postby jasonc » Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:28 pm

G-boaf I wonder if there are a few people at Vic roads telling them that bikes are actually reducing the amount of traffic and should be encouraged. To shut them up funding isn't reduced

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Re: War on cars

Postby Cyclophiliac » Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:15 pm

Reducing the traffic, and the pollution, and the wear and tear on the roads, and obesity. It's incredible that cycling isn't more popular here. This stupid obsession with cars has ruined this country.

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Re: War on cars

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:31 pm

Cyclophiliac wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:15 pm
Reducing the traffic, and the pollution, and the wear and tear on the roads, and obesity. It's incredible that cycling isn't more popular here. This stupid obsession with cars has ruined this country.
When I use to commute to work I constantly got 2 questions;
1. Isn't it dangerous?
2. How far? -> <answer -> wow that's a long way
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: War on cars

Postby find_bruce » Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:00 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:31 pm
When I use to commute to work I constantly got 2 questions;
1. Isn't it dangerous?
2. How far? -> <answer -> wow that's a long way
I still get the same 2 questions, but my answers have changed over the years. I now respond "less dangerous than me sitting at a desk all day" and "about 30 minutes" - non cyclists thought 10km was a long way, but 30 minutes each way sounds reasonable. As for the first, I noticed a distinct deterioration in my health and fitness during & following covid lockdowns. While I'm back in the office most days, its still less than 5 days a week
It doesn't get easier, you just get slower

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Re: War on cars

Postby jasonc » Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:14 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:00 pm
While I'm back in the office most days, its still less than 5 days a week
I have a problem with organisations that mandate wfh (post covid). When people ask why I keep coming to work "so I can ride is the answer"
I did work in a part of the organisation that just didn't have enough desks. I would just turn up every day and scrounge a desk

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Re: War on cars

Postby g-boaf » Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:49 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:31 pm
Cyclophiliac wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:15 pm
Reducing the traffic, and the pollution, and the wear and tear on the roads, and obesity. It's incredible that cycling isn't more popular here. This stupid obsession with cars has ruined this country.
When I use to commute to work I constantly got 2 questions;
1. Isn't it dangerous?
2. How far? -> <answer -> wow that's a long way
I'll quote you both and reply to both.

Agree with Cyclophiliac - the car obsession is silly.

And Mikes point number 2, well "wow that's a long way" really isn't a long way when people ride frequently. People riding frequently tend to get healthy (provided diet is correct) and then get used to riding so distances don't become too much of a problem.

We have to get people away from the only ride they do in a year is the "gong ride" to riding more frequently for all sorts of different purposes. Before my accident I would ride pretty much everywhere - commuting to work was super efficient as well.

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Re: War on cars

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:21 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:49 pm
And Mikes point number 2, well "wow that's a long way" really isn't a long way when people ride frequently. People riding frequently tend to get healthy (provided diet is correct) and then get used to riding so distances don't become too much of a problem.
At one point I had a commute that was 40k each way but only rode it once a week and my work location keep changing sometimes with multiple locations even in the same week. I once answered 8k and was asked "Return?" and still got "wow that's a long way" when I said each way. And as find_bruce has stated, present the health benefits.

As a side point I rode to North Sydney from Tempe this morning (Sunday) leaving 5.45am riding the route into the CBD that I would drive and it took 15 minutes to reach Central Station, then it took 20 minutes to get to North Sydney, a much shorter distance and that was due to all of the traffic lights I had to go thru to get to the Harbour bridge. Riding a bike thru Sydney CBD doesn't give you a time advantage over driving thru Sydney CBD.

When I rode back at 12.30pm from the Rocks to Tempe I could see why so few ride in that direction, while the bike paths are getting better there's still a lot of work to do before we will get people considering bike commuting to be safe
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: War on cars

Postby Cyclophiliac » Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:28 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... n-the-rack

I wish Australia had this problem. :(
When I think about how obsessed this country is with motor vehicles, I feel deep despair and depression. I wish I could afford to leave.

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Re: War on cars

Postby bychosis » Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:32 am

Cyclophiliac wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:28 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... n-the-rack

I wish Australia had this problem. :(
When I think about how obsessed this country is with motor vehicles, I feel deep despair and depression. I wish I could afford to leave.
Bike parking problems! I can see that when there’s so many bikes, parking them anywhere gets a bit much, but surely that’s one of the draw cards for bikes. You ride to within 50m of your destination and park.

I hope this city is making plenty of bike racks available and not just ‘parking garages’ that end up being 10min walk from destination.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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Re: War on cars

Postby find_bruce » Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:39 pm

Who'd a thunk it - once again more roads increased rather than decreased traffic. Of course the abomination that is Victoria Rd in Sydney is all due to the signs :roll:

Today there were huge lines at bus stops, but the busses weren't going anywhere, largely because of the single occupant vehicles stopped in the bus lane.

There were motorcycle cops (parked on the shared path of course) & you would be forgiven for thinking that they were there to book the drivers of cars going straight ahead in the left turn lane or in the bus lane, but no - they were actually encouraging drivers to continue in the bus lane, so you had thousands of commuters in buses being delayed from getting to work by 20 or so single occupant cars.

But of course this will all change tomorrow - Transport for NSW coordinator general Howard Collins is reported to have said "Police will be out in force tomorrow so everyone who thinks they're a bus and not a bus will face a fine."

I will believe that when I see it
It doesn't get easier, you just get slower

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Re: War on cars

Postby Comedian » Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:15 pm

elantra wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:44 pm
Thoglette wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:43 pm
Car sharing in residential developments could be key to reducing inner-city traffic congestion
ABC Gold Coast Mackenzie Colahan
Problems with congestion can't be solved with more cars, more road space, more parking.

What history has taught us in every other city is the real solution is less cars.
There’s an entrenched public perception that “ownership” of a car (or similar 4 wheel vehicle) also implies “ownership” of the right to claim public roadspace for parking.

This obviously does not pass the any logical thought process but since when have motor cars been associated with logic ?

As far as I can see our major population centres are being white-anted by too many cars, not just moving on the streets but also being parked on the streets- usually for free !

Decades ago, cars were expensive items and only the wealthiest people had more than one car in their ownership. And of course cars were on average, smaller than they are now (on average)

There is one part of the Gold Coast where a lot of medium density units have been built recently, on either side of a popular bicycle route.
It’s pathetic how the City Council has failed to protect the integrity of the road - and the cycling route- by failing to mandate NO PARKING on this road.
It is now a shambles of parked cars with a frightfully narrow roadspace which is now very intimidating to cyclists because there is barely enough space for one car on what is left of “the road”

This sort of nonsense is presumably occurring on a huge scale in all major and provincial cities in Australia.
All because PEOPLE OWN TOO MANY CARS THESE DAYS.
And think that public roadspace is ideal for their “storage”

Now obviously one “solution” for this problem would be for Councils to make it mandatory for all new unit and townhouse developments to have off-street parking for 4 cars !!!
But that is plainly ridiculous when we are seeing the national consequences of the cost of providing housing being so high as it is now.

The best solution would be for councils to grow some kohunas and make residential streets off limits for all day parking.

Get serious Councils, paint some yellow lines along the sides of streets, and get the local towies to police it ! They would love to be paid to “free up” some roadspace!
It would make so many people realise that having more than one car is a luxury that our cities and in fact the Planet can ill afford.
Rant over !
What about the japanese system where you can't have a car permit unless you can prove you've got somewhere to park it?

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Re: War on cars

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:11 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:39 pm
Who'd a thunk it - once again more roads increased rather than decreased traffic. Of course the abomination that is Victoria Rd in Sydney is all due to the signs :roll:

Today there were huge lines at bus stops, but the busses weren't going anywhere, largely because of the single occupant vehicles stopped in the bus lane.

There were motorcycle cops (parked on the shared path of course) & you would be forgiven for thinking that they were there to book the drivers of cars going straight ahead in the left turn lane or in the bus lane, but no - they were actually encouraging drivers to continue in the bus lane, so you had thousands of commuters in buses being delayed from getting to work by 20 or so single occupant cars.

But of course this will all change tomorrow - Transport for NSW coordinator general Howard Collins is reported to have said "Police will be out in force tomorrow so everyone who thinks they're a bus and not a bus will face a fine."

I will believe that when I see it
I'm not understanding why there is a problem, one drives over the Iorncove bridge straight into the free tunnel and exit onto Anzac bridge. Obviously there is something I am missing
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: War on cars

Postby find_bruce » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:39 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:11 pm
I'm not understanding why there is a problem, one drives over the Iorncove bridge straight into the free tunnel and exit onto Anzac bridge. Obviously there is something I am missing
Still only 4 lanes on Anzac Bridge - used to be 7 lanes merged into 4, now it's 10 lanes merge into 4 & just like Agincourt the crowd dynamics doom the result
It doesn't get easier, you just get slower

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Re: War on cars

Postby elantra » Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:40 am

find_bruce wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:39 pm
mikesbytes wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:11 pm
I'm not understanding why there is a problem, one drives over the Iorncove bridge straight into the free tunnel and exit onto Anzac bridge. Obviously there is something I am missing
Still only 4 lanes on Anzac Bridge - used to be 7 lanes merged into 4, now it's 10 lanes merge into 4 & just like Agincourt the crowd dynamics doom the result
Well looks like the NSW Gov has achieved an own goal on this one.
Or maybe the chaos at Rozelle has just coincided with the midweek lull in newsworthy items so has been given such prominence in the national media

They have certainly managed to put the tiny suburb of Rozelle on the “map” of Australian public consciousness, so to speak.

Who do we “blame” for this ?
Was the dysfunctional roadworks ordered by the gov department called TFNSW (transport for NSW), or by one of its preceding nomenclatures, such as RMS (Roads & maritime services), or RTA, or DMR, or whatever it was called before that. ?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/awkward-doubl ... 06291.html

It isn’t any better up here in Cane toad country (Qld)
Here the Qld government keeps widening the motorway between Brisbane and Gold Coast.
The motorway gets wider and its capacity increases (at enormous cost) but the exits and surrounding roads leading off the motorway become long lines of stationary cars and trucks idling with their blinkers on.

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Re: War on cars

Postby Mr Purple » Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:56 am

Comedian wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:15 pm
What about the japanese system where you can't have a car permit unless you can prove you've got somewhere to park it?
Yep. Though in my street that would still result in them parking on the street. Everyone where I live seems to own two identical massive SUVs but park them in the street despite having a two car garage - because their garage is full of junk.

What I really hate though is people who own a massive caravan and/or boat that never goes anywhere and is parked in the street permanently. Bonus points if they've just also built the house - so they had every opportunity to include somewhere to park their massive caravan/boat off the street, but they chose not to do so and to use public space.

Cars are one of the few possessions that people have the right to store on public property. I have no idea why it's so universally accepted.

Disclaimer - I own four cars (three are classics). All are parked permanently in my garage because I'm not an idiot and built a big enough garage. If I needed to park any on the street I would sell them. Also all are parked permanently in my garage because they're either broken or a long term project. Because that is the way of classic cars.

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Re: War on cars

Postby g-boaf » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:15 am

Mr Purple wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:56 am
Comedian wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:15 pm
What about the japanese system where you can't have a car permit unless you can prove you've got somewhere to park it?
Yep. Though in my street that would still result in them parking on the street. Everyone where I live seems to own two identical massive SUVs but park them in the street despite having a two car garage - because their garage is full of junk.

What I really hate though is people who own a massive caravan and/or boat that never goes anywhere and is parked in the street permanently. Bonus points if they've just also built the house - so they had every opportunity to include somewhere to park their massive caravan/boat off the street, but they chose not to do so and to use public space.

Cars are one of the few possessions that people have the right to store on public property. I have no idea why it's so universally accepted.

Disclaimer - I own four cars (three are classics). All are parked permanently in my garage because I'm not an idiot and built a big enough garage. If I needed to park any on the street I would sell them. Also all are parked permanently in my garage because they're either broken or a long term project. Because that is the way of classic cars.
You should have to prove you can park your car off street. If not, you cannot have the car,

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Re: War on cars

Postby g-boaf » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:17 am

elantra wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:40 am
find_bruce wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:39 pm
mikesbytes wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:11 pm
I'm not understanding why there is a problem, one drives over the Iorncove bridge straight into the free tunnel and exit onto Anzac bridge. Obviously there is something I am missing
Still only 4 lanes on Anzac Bridge - used to be 7 lanes merged into 4, now it's 10 lanes merge into 4 & just like Agincourt the crowd dynamics doom the result
Well looks like the NSW Gov has achieved an own goal on this one.
Or maybe the chaos at Rozelle has just coincided with the midweek lull in newsworthy items so has been given such prominence in the national media

They have certainly managed to put the tiny suburb of Rozelle on the “map” of Australian public consciousness, so to speak.

Who do we “blame” for this ?
Was the dysfunctional roadworks ordered by the gov department called TFNSW (transport for NSW), or by one of its preceding nomenclatures, such as RMS (Roads & maritime services), or RTA, or DMR, or whatever it was called before that. ?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/awkward-doubl ... 06291.html

It isn’t any better up here in Cane toad country (Qld)
Here the Qld government keeps widening the motorway between Brisbane and Gold Coast.
The motorway gets wider and its capacity increases (at enormous cost) but the exits and surrounding roads leading off the motorway become long lines of stationary cars and trucks idling with their blinkers on.
In Rozelle the blame should sit with whoever was responsible for kicking off the mega tunnel project.

Sooo much money spent on that.

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Re: War on cars

Postby jasonc » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:27 am

g-boaf wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:15 am


You should have to prove you can park your car off street. If not, you cannot have the car,
Loophole will be company vehicles...

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Re: War on cars

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:57 pm

The Rozelle interchange..
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: War on cars

Postby DavidS » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:44 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:15 am
Mr Purple wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:56 am
Comedian wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:15 pm
What about the japanese system where you can't have a car permit unless you can prove you've got somewhere to park it?
Yep. Though in my street that would still result in them parking on the street. Everyone where I live seems to own two identical massive SUVs but park them in the street despite having a two car garage - because their garage is full of junk.

What I really hate though is people who own a massive caravan and/or boat that never goes anywhere and is parked in the street permanently. Bonus points if they've just also built the house - so they had every opportunity to include somewhere to park their massive caravan/boat off the street, but they chose not to do so and to use public space.

Cars are one of the few possessions that people have the right to store on public property. I have no idea why it's so universally accepted.

Disclaimer - I own four cars (three are classics). All are parked permanently in my garage because I'm not an idiot and built a big enough garage. If I needed to park any on the street I would sell them. Also all are parked permanently in my garage because they're either broken or a long term project. Because that is the way of classic cars.
You should have to prove you can park your car off street. If not, you cannot have the car,
We have one car in our household, it is my partner's Falcon Wagon, and it gets driven maybe once a week. You own a Falcon Wagon, you learn how to park or you sell it.

I've often thought (especially when watching the pretend off road vehicles, the real off road vehicles which never go off road and even some small cars, attempt to park) that when you purchase a large car you should have to prove you can reverse park it in a normal size parking spot. This would get rid of most of them, I suspect those who actually use the 4WDs for going bush would have no problems, it's all the urban warriors in their urban assault vehicles who would fail. The rest of us would benefit.

As for the Rozelle issue (not very familiar with Sydney) I can see an immediate solution - less cars!

DS
Allegro T1, Auren Swift :)

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Re: War on cars

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:46 am

In reguards to Rozelle, they have provided an exit to 2 motorways where accessibility wasn't that great previously. The justification for building motorway infrastructure is always reduced travel times and taking traffic away from existing roads but they don't talk about induced traffic demand
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: War on cars

Postby elantra » Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:50 am

g-boaf wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:17 am


In Rozelle the blame should sit with whoever was responsible for kicking off the mega tunnel project.

Sooo much money spent on that.
Well, must have seemed like a good idea at the time.
Whenever that was.

Actually up in Brisbane there was an analogous traffic management backfire in the late 2000’s
But in Brisbane the scale of the embarrassment was much less and much less dollars to rectify.

I think it was a BCC project (not state Gov - but I could be wrong on that).
They thought that putting changeable direction lanes on Coronation Drive would “improve” congestion.
So they installed some fancy directional lane control devices in the centre lane, which cost at least several million dollars.
Looked very impressive but actually made the congestion on Coro Drive significantly worse !

So after only a few weeks, the decision was taken to remove the devices, which probably cost a few more million dollars.
At least the “solution” was relatively easy.

Actually, Rozelle has a special place in my heart.
More than 3 decades ago I was in Sydney for a training course. Drove down from Bris.
Stayed in an old Pub - I think it might have been called the Rozelle hotel.
It was only 25 dollars per night for a room with a view and some free breakfast (Weetbix sachets and long life milk). Parking was free.
That was such a great find !

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Re: War on cars

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:11 pm

Cost benefit analysis on driving vs cycling vs walking
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: War on cars

Postby Comedian » Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:44 pm

elantra wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:50 am
g-boaf wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:17 am


In Rozelle the blame should sit with whoever was responsible for kicking off the mega tunnel project.

Sooo much money spent on that.
Well, must have seemed like a good idea at the time.
Whenever that was.

Actually up in Brisbane there was an analogous traffic management backfire in the late 2000’s
But in Brisbane the scale of the embarrassment was much less and much less dollars to rectify.

I think it was a BCC project (not state Gov - but I could be wrong on that).
They thought that putting changeable direction lanes on Coronation Drive would “improve” congestion.
So they installed some fancy directional lane control devices in the centre lane, which cost at least several million dollars.
Looked very impressive but actually made the congestion on Coro Drive significantly worse !

So after only a few weeks, the decision was taken to remove the devices, which probably cost a few more million dollars.
At least the “solution” was relatively easy.

Actually, Rozelle has a special place in my heart.
More than 3 decades ago I was in Sydney for a training course. Drove down from Bris.
Stayed in an old Pub - I think it might have been called the Rozelle hotel.
It was only 25 dollars per night for a room with a view and some free breakfast (Weetbix sachets and long life milk). Parking was free.
That was such a great find !
Jolly shame they didn't ask this before they built it.. Actually people probably were but no one was listening.

I say that as I watch the whole thing happening again for the Gympie road tunnel.
“We need to know who thought it up, who pushed for it, who in the private sector and public service designed, sanctioned and signed-off on its various stages and what the nature of the interaction was between government and private sector business interests.”
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... commission

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Re: War on cars

Postby Comedian » Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:48 pm

There is a parked car on the roadside near my house. I ride past it on the way to work. An old lancer that's had a whack on one side at the front. It's probably still drivable but needs repairing.

Anyway been there for months. It looks like it's parked for the duration though. Screens on the front and rear etc. Anyway checked the rego and it's expired. Probably whoever owned it couldn't afford the repair so they have parked it up. Anyway if it's expired it can't stay on the road.

So I reported it. Council got back to me.. they try and find the owner and give them a month to move it. If they can't or won't move it then I can request again it be removed and sometime council will remove it.

I mean.. so why not leave your private property on the road. The council has your back.

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