NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

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trailgumby
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby trailgumby » Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:54 pm

brumby33 wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:13 am
mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:23 am
There's a bit of a fight going on about new cycleways. Boils down to what public space is allocated to
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... t-nimbyism
I was intrigued about the little snippet in that Guardian report that:
In Sydney, a leading barrister has claimed the city’s pandemic pop-up cycleways are now “unlawful”.

So how does that Barrister come up with that conclusion? During the Pandemic, it was the State Government who insisted those bike lanes existed as well as from Clover Moore the SCC Lord Mayor, so how can they be unlawfull?

I'd like to know his reasoning.

Pay him some money, he'll come up with any reasoning you want.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby Thoglette » Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:08 pm

brumby33 wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:13 am
So how does that Barrister come up with that conclusion?
He read the legislation.
Here's the thread on the topic, with a link to the relevant bits.

There was a time limit.
A ministerial order on May 29, 2020, said a condition of the cycleways was they “must not remain in place for more than two months after the prescribed period”.
The prescribed period, defined in other legislation, was later extended to March 31, 2022, leading Sydney barrister Mark Fozzard to conclude the cycleways have been in place unlawfully since the start of June.
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:16 pm

brumby33 wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:13 am
mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:23 am
There's a bit of a fight going on about new cycleways. Boils down to what public space is allocated to
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... t-nimbyism
I was intrigued about the little snippet in that Guardian report that:
In Sydney, a leading barrister has claimed the city’s pandemic pop-up cycleways are now “unlawful”.

So how does that Barrister come up with that conclusion? During the Pandemic, it was the State Government who insisted those bike lanes existed as well as from Clover Moore the SCC Lord Mayor, so how can they be unlawfull?

I'd like to know his reasoning.

There's also issues from another article about the ramp on the Northside of the Sydney Harbour Bridge and that the Mayor of North Sydney doesn't want that ramp built and perhaps an elevator be constructed instead, in some ways I agree but in peak times, waiting around for bikes going in/out of an elevator on both ends will end up with similar congestion. They have an elevator on the East side of the bridge to head south but bicycles arn't allowed on that side apparently, I got told to go back down and go on the West side of the Bridge to head back to the main CBD.
North Sydney Councillors have steadfastly disproved any bicycle infrastructure on the North Side.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... cling-city
I think there is a lot of Nimbyism going on in some areas of the Sydney City region to satisfy their elitist residences, it's a city divided that's for sure.
Hopefully since the council election there's been a change in attitude for North Sydney council as its blocking the linkage of significant cycleways to the harbour bridge
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:32 pm

hunch wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:51 pm
Interestingly part of the eastern CBD was blocked off yesterday for some sort of of car ad by the looks. Nobody seemed to be losing their mind, despite the extensive traffic jams.....imagine if a bike ride caused that instead - homicides! :lol:
Cars are important, bikes are not, right... :roll:

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:04 pm

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/1-2 ... 5bu87.html

This is promising. But hopefully not too late.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby trailgumby » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:12 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:04 pm
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/1-2 ... 5bu87.html

This is promising. But hopefully not too late.

It's not too late. But without BNSW requesting a meeting with Rob Stokes, it would have been.

The contractor had been treating BNSW and Bike North like mushrooms and was two weeks ago formally put on notice that BNSW and Bike North were withdrawing from the mandatory process until meaningful consultation was undertaken, which includes being given plans and diagrams for the proposed cycleways, our requests for which were being ignored.

Hopefully they have now received the message "don't screw with BNSW". We tried to be nice, but they mistook politeness for lack of resolve.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:58 pm

I was hoping for something between Wentworthville and at least Walgrove Rd Eastern Creek with the M4 widening but nothing so far.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:28 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:04 pm
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/1-2 ... 5bu87.html

This is promising. But hopefully not too late.
It's been a real uphill battle to get a working network on the north side. Fortunately the anti cycling North Sydney council has been voted out so hopefully that should eventually result in a critical link becoming a reality.

The Warringah freeway is a typical example of how nothing will happen unless it is strongly lobbied for
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:17 pm

If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:48 pm

Push to allow bicycles on footpaths:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ped ... 5egq4.html

Some footpaths it would be okay, but many of them are of terrible quality and dubious safety levels.

My thoughts are mixed on this idea.

Agree that cars get too many benefits. Reduce speed limits, put more space for cycle ways.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:54 pm

The bike path past Mascot train station is finally open, about 3 years after it was closed to allow expansion of the train station underground. While a small section of bike path it now (re)connects the local bike routes. Has anyone here cycled it yet?
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:39 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:48 pm

Some footpaths it would be okay, but many of them are of terrible quality and dubious safety levels.

My thoughts are mixed on this idea.
Don’t blame the idea for the state (or width) of the footpaths.

Do blame the idiots who think that they’re in the final sprint at the TdF. Or have to ride their e-thing at 50kph.

This side the rabbit proof fence the sky has not fallen down since that stupid law died.
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:51 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:39 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:48 pm

Some footpaths it would be okay, but many of them are of terrible quality and dubious safety levels.

My thoughts are mixed on this idea.
Don’t blame the idea for the state (or width) of the footpaths.

Do blame the idiots who think that they’re in the final sprint at the TdF. Or have to ride their e-thing at 50kph.

This side the rabbit proof fence the sky has not fallen down since that stupid law died.

No, as a PEDESTRIAN I WILL blame the footpaths!


Some of them are not fit for people who are badly injured to get around on with crutches or who are not steady on their feet. I faced that last year.

Please stop with the "final sprint of TdF" nonsense. :roll: The bad quality footpaths are something that really made things extremely difficult and risky for getting about. Either uneven, broken up (trip hazards), not properly set (pavers moving), slippery when wet, loose gravel over them or dirt.. You name it.

Oh and narrow, so when the iPeds come along glued to their screen, I have to try and get out of their way before they run into me. :evil:

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:49 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:51 pm

No, as a PEDESTRIAN I WILL blame the footpaths!
So the answer to poor maintenance and planning is to ban (potential in NSW) classes of users?

Well, that’ll be fun when applied to freeways and country roads.

Don’t fix the roads! Legislate against users using them.
And spend the budget on, oh, private airports.

If there’s a problem with footpath design and maintenance, that’s what needs fixing.

There’s no shortage of money, even in 2GB land. Just the will to stop spending it on roads for private motor vehicles.
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:02 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:49 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:51 pm

No, as a PEDESTRIAN I WILL blame the footpaths!
So the answer to poor maintenance and planning is to ban (potential in NSW) classes of users?

Well, that’ll be fun when applied to freeways and country roads.

Don’t fix the roads! Legislate against users using them.
And spend the budget on, oh, private airports.

If there’s a problem with footpath design and maintenance, that’s what needs fixing.

There’s no shortage of money, even in 2GB land. Just the will to stop spending it on roads for private motor vehicles.
Good of you to totally ignore the problems I raised. I didn't say to ban anyone or not - you inferred that on your own.

Everything needs a damn lot of fixing and very quickly. Oh and roads too need fixing, some of those are in dreadful condition with hazards for bicycles. Broken up surfaces, huge potholes - in my area they are dreadful. All since 2021 and the heavy rains - the local roads deteriorated very rapidly. The cycleways are crumbling too.

There are plans to fix and improve some of those cycleways. I was planning to lobby to get some further improvements but since nobody was interested among the cyclists around here, the response was crickets I figured nobody wants improvements like a key route remaining open for longer during the day, so let them all take to the road. I'm not going to waste time chasing up politicians if there is no demand for it.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:15 pm

Forced onto the footpath for 20 metres then told to stop, don't see the logic

98 Oban Rd, Ringwood North VIC
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ApGxKbdfsvGVo7MK9
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby JPB » Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:03 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:02 pm

There are plans to fix and improve some of those cycleways. I was planning to lobby to get some further improvements but since nobody was interested among the cyclists around here, the response was crickets I figured nobody wants improvements like a key route remaining open for longer during the day, so let them all take to the road. I'm not going to waste time chasing up politicians if there is no demand for it.
I mentioned a 24/7 link between the M7 and the Prospect Canal path in that recent M7 survey.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Wed Nov 22, 2023 5:47 am

JPB wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:03 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:02 pm

There are plans to fix and improve some of those cycleways. I was planning to lobby to get some further improvements but since nobody was interested among the cyclists around here, the response was crickets I figured nobody wants improvements like a key route remaining open for longer during the day, so let them all take to the road. I'm not going to waste time chasing up politicians if there is no demand for it.
I mentioned a 24/7 link between the M7 and the Prospect Canal path in that recent M7 survey.
Cheers! Hoping it helps get council intervention.

My thoughts on the matter are for a link along GWH from Pemulwuy and probably Cumberland Highway. That would be the easiest.


Naturally something direct straight through Prospect Dam land and meeting up the M7 near Eastern Creek would be fastest but has zero chance of happening. No way would any path dissect those sacred lands. And never would it be open 24/7.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:29 pm

The terrible state of Sydney's footpaths:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/tre ... 5ekn8.html

They are pretty bad, dealing with them last year when badly injured really opens your eyes to just how bad they are. People with no physical disabilities may find no issue, but for others - they are an accident waiting to happen.

They aren't just narrow, they are broken up to heck, bits of the paths forming steep ramps whenever it gets warm, slippery when wet, holes, trip hazards, very uneven, flooding, you name it.

https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0.39 ... 04006ceeb4

I was blasted for suggesting that some paths are unsuitable for cycling and told that the problem was just people racing too fast. :roll: Are those in the photo suitable? Especially the middle one and the right side one.

Those are terrible, not good enough.

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:15 pm

Rode with the daughter along Alexandria canal today, stopped at Nigel Love bridge. From the bridge you can see the new bike bridge they are building over the Alexandria canal about 50 metres past it. Brings up 2 questions;
1. Why are they building this bridge when the Nigel Love bridge is already there?
2. Are they counting this new cycle bridge as part of the NSW active transport infrastructure spend?
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:31 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:15 pm
Rode with the daughter along Alexandria canal today, stopped at Nigel Love bridge. From the bridge you can see the new bike bridge they are building over the Alexandria canal about 50 metres past it. Brings up 2 questions;
1. Why are they building this bridge when the Nigel Love bridge is already there?
2. Are they counting this new cycle bridge as part of the NSW active transport infrastructure spend?
It's a good way to say you are doing something for active transport without making the overall situation better. By doing this, you can make it look like you are doing good things without upsetting the important motor vehicle supporters (who don't want more active transport).

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby find_bruce » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:50 pm

I thought it was part of replacing the path on the airport side of the canal with one on the northern side - IIRC the new bridge links directly to the path under the rail line
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:04 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:50 pm
I thought it was part of replacing the path on the airport side of the canal with one on the northern side - IIRC the new bridge links directly to the path under the rail line
That's correct, they are replacing the airport drive bike path with a new one on the other side of the canal. Cyclist are currently crossing Alexandria canal using the old disused road bridge at the end of Tempe Reserve and cycling along the west side of the canal next to the desalination pipe and then crossing back to the east side of the canal using Nigel Love Bridge. The new cycling bridge is being build about 50 metres past Nigel Love Bridge, so the questions I have are;
1. Why build a new bridge when Nigel Love Bridge is so close
2. Are the costs considered part of the active transport budget, or is this realignment part of some other budget
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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby g-boaf » Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:43 pm

Not all footpaths widened, some are being used for car parking:

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/park ... melbourne/

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Re: NSW: More cycleways, streets to shut, footpaths widened

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:38 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:43 pm
Not all footpaths widened, some are being used for car parking:

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/park ... melbourne/
Perhaps they should put in a fixed speed camera to enforce the 10kph speed limit
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