Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Mr Purple
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:13 pm

A few highlights from BCC in recent weeks. One my own, two I've noticed but photos courtesy of the various bicycle user groups.

First - Karl Street, Woolloongabba. An absolute disaster zone of an intersection fortunately currently in the process of being overpassed. Yes, cars should give way to cyclists here but rarely do. What's the BCC solution? Put a sign saying cyclists should watch out for cars. I particularly like how this photo has a car completely failing to give way to a cyclist.

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Genius. It's only an intersection on one of the busiest bikeways in Brisbane, and now make it extra unclear that cars should actually be giving way to cyclists on it.

As I've done more gravel biking I've noticed more and more trails which are randomly barred to cyclists. This one's a cracker - it's about 50m of well trodden gravel that is the only link to the south end of the (bike permitted) Toohey Ridge Trail to the V1. And of course cycling is banned on it. As you do.

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But nothing beats this one at a park in Corinda I'd detoured a fair way to explore. Of course I did the legal thing and immediately turned around, but how does this happen?

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What possible situation can there be where bicycles are scary and dangerous but horses perfectly ok? Sometimes I feel we're being marginalised.

Mr Purple
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:14 pm

Another cracker from BCC on today's ride.

I present to you, the invisible bollard. In a shady area painted exactly the same colour as the fence it's next to. Bonus points for it being extra sharp on top.

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A similar bollard on the BVRT claimed the front teeth of a participant in the E2E this year. Both race organisers and the council responsible are being sued. I reported it to council - there is a standard for these things and that meets none of it.

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redsonic
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby redsonic » Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:46 pm

This path near me was built exiting onto a road with a sharp gutter and drain. Cyclists are supposed to know to veer abruptly to the side to hit the gutter ramp and avoid the metal grill. No signs, no markings. Try getting away with that on a roadway.

Image


Image

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g-boaf
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby g-boaf » Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:28 pm

redsonic wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:46 pm
This path near me was built exiting onto a road with a sharp gutter and drain. Cyclists are supposed to know to veer abruptly to the side to hit the gutter ramp and avoid the metal grill. No signs, no markings. Try getting away with that on a roadway.

Image


Image
That is extremely bad. Is it really a path for cyclists? Looks like a normal footpath and not especially wide.

I'm sure they will find a safe and easy fix, just put bollards around the end of the path extremely close together to make people stop and get off their bikes, if it's intended to be used for bicycles.

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bychosis
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby bychosis » Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:46 am

That looks like what I’ve seen in many suburbs. It’s a drainage easement and for ‘amenity’ they put a footpath down the middle. More than likely to be a storm water drain underneath the path.

One nearest home has a drain grate too and bottom, but it’s got steps so not a viable bike solution. I’m guess pedestrian are also expected to step over/around.

But yea, not a great bit of infrastructure.

Here is another (assuming the link works) and this is a marked bicycle route.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/FfHdqZ4oajX5WXAXA?g_st=i
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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redsonic
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby redsonic » Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:57 am

This path connects the Moreton Bay Rail Cycleway to one of the suburban streets nearby. So yes, it probably was originally designed for peds, but is promoted as a cycleway. It is marked on the map as such, and has signage off the main cycleway indicating it as a route. I reported it to council the first day I saw it (about 10 days ago). So far, no response.

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g-boaf
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby g-boaf » Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:02 am

redsonic wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:46 pm
This path near me was built exiting onto a road with a sharp gutter and drain. Cyclists are supposed to know to veer abruptly to the side to hit the gutter ramp and avoid the metal grill. No signs, no markings. Try getting away with that on a roadway.
Not here, but all along the Rte Nationale in Megeve (France) there are drainage grates at the edge of the road at frequent intervals. The grates themselves wouldn't trap a wheel (probably slippery when wet) but they've got decent sized gaps around the edge where they meet with the road surface, some worse than others. Fortunately claiming the lane to go around them is no problem.

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redsonic
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby redsonic » Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:04 am

There was a green painted bike lane at an intersection near where I used to live and, if you used the lane, you would be waiting for a light change with your front wheel in the drainage grid.

Mr Purple
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:39 pm

You'd think if Brisbane council were going to insist on $1000 odd fines for riding a bicycle on the wrong trail, then they'd mark them clearly. But no - this cracker from Toohey Forest.

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Schrodinger's trail. Where riding a bicycle is both legal and illegal.

Technically I suppose you could say it's legal between the first and second sign.

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby blizzard » Sun Dec 03, 2023 6:52 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:39 pm
You'd think if Brisbane council were going to insist on $1000 odd fines for riding a bicycle on the wrong trail, then they'd mark them clearly. But no - this cracker from Toohey Forest.

Image

Schrodinger's trail. Where riding a bicycle is both legal and illegal.

Technically I suppose you could say it's legal between the first and second sign.
Pretty typical. BCC Are building proper MTB trails in Toohey Forest, just not sure when.

On brighter news, good to see the bridge is in at O'Keefe St.

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:02 pm

The new bridge there looks excellent. Though it is notable that the V1 veloway is a TMR project, not a BCC project. Hence why it gets maintained and upgraded.

Both Toohey Forest and White's Hill are in the 'off road cycling' strategy and slated for upgrades. However in the two years since the strategy has been released the number of trails with bike access have been downgraded, if anything.

There's plenty of gravel trails in Whites Hill from what I can see that would be imminently suitable for riding. However it remains completely banned in there. Because nimby reasons I imagine.

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby jasonc » Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:47 pm

redsonic wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:46 pm
This path near me was built exiting onto a road with a sharp gutter and drain. Cyclists are supposed to know to veer abruptly to the side to hit the gutter ramp and avoid the metal grill. No signs, no markings. Try getting away with that on a roadway.

Image
https://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/files ... -law-2.pdf
page 11
11.2
(2) An animal is under the effective control of someone only if—
(a) a person who is physically able to control the animal—
(i) is holding it by an appropriate leash, halter or rein; or
(ii) has appropriately tethered it to an object fixed to a place from
which the object can not be moved by the animal and is
continuously supervising the animal; or
(iii) has corralled it in a temporary enclosure adequate to contain the
animal and is continuously supervising the animal; or
(b) the animal is tethered in or on a vehicle and unable to reach beyond the
vehicle extremities; or
(c) the animal is a dog in a designated dog off-leash area and under the
supervision of a person who is able to control the animal by voice command;
or
(d) the animal is participating in, or being exhibited or trained at, an exhibition
or an obedience trial supervised by a body recognised for this section by the
local government; or
(e) the animal is a working animal actually engaged in moving livestock and
under the supervision of a person who is able to control the animal by voice
command.

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redsonic
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby redsonic » Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:15 pm

I don't get your point, Jason. I tied the dogs to the post in the background to take the photo. They were tethered and under my supervision.
(ii) has appropriately tethered it to an object fixed to a place from
which the object can not be moved by the animal and is
continuously supervising the animal;

jasonc
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby jasonc » Mon Dec 04, 2023 9:18 pm

The photo makes it difficult to see anything but the dogs. They don't looked restrained, but that's probably due to the compression

Mr Purple
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:59 pm

I had a talk to the local member of council yesterday at an event, along with a guy that's a major architect in the local park designs.

Given their attitudes to off road cycling, I think we have slim to no chance of any of the proposed 'off road cycling' strategy to go ahead. Very little interest, despite themselves pointing out that there's very little available in eastern Brisbane in general.

It's a shame, because the evidence suggests that bicycles don't do more damage to trails than hikers. I get the impression the number of voters that complain when cyclists pass them outnumbers the number of cyclists that complain that we have nowhere to ride, so the majority will win.

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:48 am

And probably my least favorite council sign of all time.

This is on a climb to Griffith University. It's a wide quiet road, gentle curves, good visibility and well over 1m of shoulder for most of it.

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And yet we apparently have to take the footpath 'for our safety'. If any motorist manages to hit a cyclist on this road they shouldn't be driving. Hate how they're putting the onus back on the cyclist and giving motorists more flame to the fuel of the idea that we shouldn't be on the road in the first place. Pretty pathetic stuff.

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby nemo57 » Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:04 am

Wow! Coming from the People's Democratic Republic of Melbourne, home of all things Green, I did have the notion that ye cyclism is ill-served in parts northerly. But some of these public-authority-created hazards are quite eye-opening. It's almost as if they're trying to kill you.
Can't complain here, where it is possible to ride well beyond 120km with not more than 5km that is not on shared purpose built bike paths, bridges and ramps. We are fortunate.

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elantra
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby elantra » Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:05 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:48 am
And probably my least favorite council sign of all time.

This is on a climb to Griffith University. It's a wide quiet road, gentle curves, good visibility and well over 1m of shoulder for most of it.

Image

And yet we apparently have to take the footpath 'for our safety'. If any motorist manages to hit a cyclist on this road they shouldn't be driving. Hate how they're putting the onus back on the cyclist and giving motorists more flame to the fuel of the idea that we shouldn't be on the road in the first place. Pretty pathetic stuff.
That’s a classic example of the treatment being worse than the disease - very poor judgement by the University.

They might as well put up a sign saying don’t come here unless you are in a big bus or a big SUV.

The path that they are suggesting, I presume that it meanders through the bush does it ?

Probably suffers from most of the usual pedestrian pathway safety limitations ranging from personal security issues to narrowness and slipperiness.
etc etc etc.

I don’t mind taking a footpath in selected circumstances but footpaths in subtropical Brisbane are notorious for irregular surfaces (from tree root growth), also buildup of decaying leaf litter, also unpredictable pedestrian behaviour.
Then there are the Reptiles that love to sunbake on them. Such as Red belly black snakes and Water dragons !

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:15 pm

Yes, Johnson path seems to be a poorly maintained, narrow, pedestrian path. There's actually a similar path on the other side of the uni that I took the KOM from one of the team Bridgelane riders simply because it's so badly maintained that my gravel bike beat his road bike.

What annoys me as I'd done this climb at least three or four times without any issues whatsoever until I noticed the sign. Now I'm worried to do it again, as motorists will no doubt think 'well, you shouldn't be here anyway'. It doesn't make anyone's life any safer.

Having said that it is such an unusual sign that I can't recall any others like that around. Although 'Cyclists, claim the lane' is saying the same thing - 'we can't be bothered to make this safe for you, so you're on your own from here'.

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DavidS
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby DavidS » Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:43 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:15 pm
Yes, Johnson path seems to be a poorly maintained, narrow, pedestrian path. There's actually a similar path on the other side of the uni that I took the KOM from one of the team Bridgelane riders simply because it's so badly maintained that my gravel bike beat his road bike.

What annoys me as I'd done this climb at least three or four times without any issues whatsoever until I noticed the sign. Now I'm worried to do it again, as motorists will no doubt think 'well, you shouldn't be here anyway'. It doesn't make anyone's life any safer.

Having said that it is such an unusual sign that I can't recall any others like that around. Although 'Cyclists, claim the lane' is saying the same thing - 'we can't be bothered to make this safe for you, so you're on your own from here'.
Got a spanner (or whatever fits their fastening)?

Remove the stupid thing.

DS
Allegro T1, Auren Swift :)

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:27 am

elantra wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:05 pm
Probably suffers from most of the usual pedestrian pathway safety limitations ranging from personal security issues to narrowness and slipperiness.
This gets better - because I ignore stupid signs I've never actually been up the alternative 'Johnson Path'.

A short video clip uploaded by another rider to a Facebook group I also shared this on confirms there is actually a steep flight of stairs at the top of that path.

So they literally want you to ride up a pedestrian path and then carry your bike up a flight of stairs as a 'safe' alternative.

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elantra
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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby elantra » Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:13 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:27 am
elantra wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:05 pm
Probably suffers from most of the usual pedestrian pathway safety limitations ranging from personal security issues to narrowness and slipperiness.
This gets better - because I ignore stupid signs I've never actually been up the alternative 'Johnson Path'.

A short video clip uploaded by another rider to a Facebook group I also shared this on confirms there is actually a steep flight of stairs at the top of that path.

So they literally want you to ride up a pedestrian path and then carry your bike up a flight of stairs as a 'safe' alternative.
I struggle to comprehend how a high-profile Tertiary Education Institution could be so imbecilic to put up a sign like that.
It’s a huge gift to those parts of the community who are anti-cyclist, anti-active transport, and anti-lots of other concepts that are usually considered desirable for the future.

This harsh paradox does remind me ever so slightly of the relatively insignificant paradox that used to exist on the UQ campus (perhaps it still does)

The part of the Riverloop through UQ used to have a succession of speed bumps which I never enjoyed riding over.
Each speed bump on this road was different, and just when you thought that you had worked out the best speed to approach them with, a nasty one would surprise you.
Ironic that it was on the campus with one of Australia’s most renowned Schools of Civil Engineering :lol:

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby jasonc » Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:20 pm

elantra - the speed bumps are still there. they have fixed some of them, but not all

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:16 pm

elantra wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:13 pm
The part of the Riverloop through UQ used to have a succession of speed bumps which I never enjoyed riding over.
Each speed bump on this road was different, and just when you thought that you had worked out the best speed to approach them with, a nasty one would surprise you.
Ironic that it was on the campus with one of Australia’s most renowned Schools of Civil Engineering :lol:
Ah, yes. UQ.

The worst part is that some of the speedbumps can be bypassed by riding on their left, but there's also garden beds randomly protruding onto the left in between the speedbumps, and sometimes the speedbumps are actually continuous with those garden beds.

So if you're not concentrating you'll wind up in a garden bed. Also it's surprisingly how often cars drive past you at speed despite doing the posted limit or above, given it's a 30 zone.

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Re: Council Genius Moves - Bikeways

Postby Cyclophiliac » Mon Jan 29, 2024 6:55 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:16 pm
elantra wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:13 pm
The part of the Riverloop through UQ used to have a succession of speed bumps which I never enjoyed riding over.
Each speed bump on this road was different, and just when you thought that you had worked out the best speed to approach them with, a nasty one would surprise you.
Ironic that it was on the campus with one of Australia’s most renowned Schools of Civil Engineering :lol:
Ah, yes. UQ.

The worst part is that some of the speedbumps can be bypassed by riding on their left, but there's also garden beds randomly protruding onto the left in between the speedbumps, and sometimes the speedbumps are actually continuous with those garden beds.

So if you're not concentrating you'll wind up in a garden bed. Also it's surprisingly how often cars drive past you at speed despite doing the posted limit or above, given it's a 30 zone.
It sounds like the location of those road features isn't THAT ironic considering that Australia's idea of civil engineering is "let's keep the pesky cyclists in their place, where they can't hurt anyone".

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