Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

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g-boaf
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Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:03 am

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/no- ... 5cfnn.html

This didn't deserve to be buried in the "war on cars topic".

Agree with the article totally. Reducing the speed of cars, trucks and buses will help a lot.

And this second article also proves the point:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/aus ... 5cgxh.html

School drop off and pick up times around my area are frantic, crazy, especially in the streets close to the schools with all the big trucks doing battle. Even when Police come along to prevent people double-parking, they argue furiously about it. :shock:

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby bychosis » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:34 am

Agree with residential streets dropping to 30. 50 is too fast for pedestrians where there aren’t footpaths or kids on bikes etc. it’ll also reduce fuel consumption and noise.

Also would like to see a lot less of the short 70/80 zones that were out in place to drop the number of speeding fines by increasing the limit to what people travelled at. I can think of at least 4 locally that are short and between suburbs, less than 1km long. They only encourage drivers to speed up and become accustomed to driving faster and in reality only save a few seconds to a journey.

Having a park custodian also sounds a good idea. Pay a local or three a few bucks to monitor and do some maintenance of the parks. Give the locals a sense of ownership, not just “leave it for council”
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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Thoglette
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby Thoglette » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:14 pm

bychosis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:34 am
Also would like to see a lot less of the short 70/80 zones that were out in place to drop the number of speeding fines
:shock: Only in NSW...
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby LateStarter » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:30 pm

I haven't read it yet but the Sunday paper is the appropriate place for an article like this, somewhere up the back with the comics and fiction / fantasy section? This is Sydney after all, we just need another motorway to fix any problem.
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bychosis
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby bychosis » Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:08 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:14 pm
bychosis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:34 am
Also would like to see a lot less of the short 70/80 zones that were out in place to drop the number of speeding fines
:shock: Only in NSW...
That was said somewhat tongue in cheek, but there was a time when they started to adapt the speed limit to the ‘natural’ speed of the roads. They added 70 and 90 to collection which meant they could increase the limits in some areas to cater for higher speeds without stepping up a full 20km/h.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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Thoglette
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby Thoglette » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:21 pm

bychosis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:08 pm
That was said somewhat tongue in cheek, but there was a time when they started to adapt the speed limit to the ‘natural’ speed of the roads.
I think I have a paper on that & why that approach was abandoned. Off to the stash….
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:45 am

No cycleway in this area:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/eas ... 5cr2y.html

Apparently security concerns! :roll:

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:27 am

More on reshaping Sydney - this time from legislative point of view:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cyc ... 5co8i.html

I like comment of Police having to ride bicycles as part of their employment. Especially not in uniform.

Actually it would be something for all car drivers to do a certain amount of riding on roads per year. It might change their behaviour.

Police on bicycles (not in uniform) who are patrolling and have radio contact with nearby police cars could also enforce better driving behaviour.

It’s a shame that John Hawkins has to go to such lengths to ensure things are dealt with, but it’s hardly surprising. I also don’t like things being hidden behind GIPA (modern term for FOI).


I remember also a guy in Innsbruck asking me about riding in Australia- he said, isn’t it dangerous? So the reputation has gone worldwide…

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby baabaa » Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:03 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:45 am
No cycleway in this area:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/eas ... 5cr2y.html

Apparently security concerns! :roll:
What a mess - really do not miss biking in Sydney one bit

I guess some people are still trying to help get people onto bikes ( see below) but I for one consider that Sydney will never fully recover from the Dark Days of Duncan

https://www.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/ ... 20a%20bike

Wednesday, 15 March 2023 - 11:00am to 2:30pm
Ride your bike on our roads and paths with confidence
After a road safety survey indicated that women ride bikes less frequently than men, and that 55% of women indicated they did not feel safe riding on the road, Council teamed up with the qualified coaches from ‘Pedal Set Go’ to create the Women's Biking Workshop.

This free workshop is targeted at women that would like to use our shared paths and local roads confidently when riding their bikes and will help develop riding skills and confidence in a safe, guided environment.

Workshop Includes:

Bike and helmet safety checks
An overview of biking road rules
Tips on route selection, responsibilities, and riding principles
Riding practice in an enclosed carpark
A guided bike ride through North Curl Curl & Freshwater
Brunch
This workshop was made possible through joint funding from Transport NSW and Northern Beaches Council.

Pricing
Price
$0.00

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Thoglette
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby Thoglette » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:01 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:21 pm
bychosis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:08 pm
That was said somewhat tongue in cheek, but there was a time when they started to adapt the speed limit to the ‘natural’ speed of the roads.
I think I have a paper on that & why that approach was abandoned. Off to the stash….
Coming back to me. Short version is that drivers' "natural" speeds are completely unrelated to the actual safe speed of the road and that so-called "natural" speeds are mostly driven by drivers' mental load (that is, perception of risk) which is mostly driven by how boring the road is. The abstract from Waad et al. is a good place to start.

This is particularly true in urban spaces, where a much higher mental effort is required to actually be safe than on a freeway (c.f. the "but the child came out of nowhere" defence)

I don't think I have an article on this in my stash (I need to start a file on "safe systems") but I had this article bookmarked
The Deadly Myth That Human Error Causes Most Car Crashes (Zipper, David, November 26, 2021 in The Atlantic)

It's a good read.

This is part of a larger conversation, started by the Scandinavians in the early ninties as Vision Zero, which recognised that safety depended not solely on the driver (nor injured party) but on the complex system within which the critical "human error" was made.

This was something that the courts (particularly in the US) had ignored in their effort to find a responsible individual (see Jain) and, even when the public expected that "something must be done" legislators mostly sided with "progress" (see Trantor)

References

Jain, S.S.L., 2004. “Dangerous Instrumentality”: The bystander as subject in automobility. Cultural Anthropology, 19(1), pp.61-94.

Tranter, K., 2005. 'The history of the haste-wagons': the Motor Car Act 1909 (VIC), emergent technology and the call for law. Melbourne University Law Review, 29(3), pp.843-879.

Waard, D.D., Jessurun, M., Steyvers, F.J., Reggatt, P.T. and Brookhuis, K.A., 1995. Effect of road layout and road environment on driving performance, drivers' physiology and road appreciation. Ergonomics, 38(7), pp.1395-1407.
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"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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g-boaf
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:21 pm

baabaa wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:03 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:45 am
No cycleway in this area:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/eas ... 5cr2y.html

Apparently security concerns! :roll:
What a mess - really do not miss biking in Sydney one bit

I guess some people are still trying to help get people onto bikes ( see below) but I for one consider that Sydney will never fully recover from the Dark Days of Duncan

https://www.northernbeaches.nsw.gov.au/ ... 20a%20bike

Wednesday, 15 March 2023 - 11:00am to 2:30pm
Ride your bike on our roads and paths with confidence
After a road safety survey indicated that women ride bikes less frequently than men, and that 55% of women indicated they did not feel safe riding on the road, Council teamed up with the qualified coaches from ‘Pedal Set Go’ to create the Women's Biking Workshop.

This free workshop is targeted at women that would like to use our shared paths and local roads confidently when riding their bikes and will help develop riding skills and confidence in a safe, guided environment.

Workshop Includes:

Bike and helmet safety checks
An overview of biking road rules
Tips on route selection, responsibilities, and riding principles
Riding practice in an enclosed carpark
A guided bike ride through North Curl Curl & Freshwater
Brunch
This workshop was made possible through joint funding from Transport NSW and Northern Beaches Council.

Pricing
Price
$0.00
I used to do what I could do in my area when I was riding outside to encourage new people onto bikes. Things like explaining local routes, advice on getting started, etc. and just consistent riding commuting to and from work.

Now it’s me who is the newcomer getting into it again after a year off. :roll:

Lower traffic speeds and better enforcement of rules and police on bicycles (not in uniform and not on generic Police bicycles) will do the trick.

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baabaa
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby baabaa » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:57 am

Lower traffic speeds and better enforcement of rules and police on bicycles (not in uniform and not on generic Police bicycles) will do the trick.

think this is worth a listen....

Ending road deaths

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct3j2z

Road traffic injuries are the eighth biggest cause of death in the world, with about 1.3m people killed every year.

But 25 years ago, a movement started that changed the way policy-makers approach the issue. Vision Zero imagines a world in which no-one is killed or seriously injured on our roads. Its advocates say this isn’t a utopian ideal, but a mindset with numerous practical implications, and which has cut deaths in a number of countries.

Myra Anubi also hears about an innovative project to help truck drivers in India stay safe on the roads, and checks out the tech that now comes fitted in all new cars models in the EU - and which experts say could eliminate a fifth of road casualties.

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g-boaf
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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:39 pm

We've got a way to go with even maintaining our old infrastructure for cycling:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-FfxfNc/

That's about 500m away from where I crashed last year, looking exactly like it did 1 year ago, no change. Still lots of dirt and silt and if it rains it will be dangerously slippery. :x Nothing is done.

Click for larger:
Image

Location: https://goo.gl/maps/BXjYFXtvXEeaSK8EA
Last edited by g-boaf on Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby AndrewCowley » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:41 pm

Where is that?

Is it a disused canal?

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:43 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:41 pm
Where is that?

Is it a disused canal?
Just added the location above: https://goo.gl/maps/BXjYFXtvXEeaSK8EA

Not your area, it's out west. I walked out there today about 9km all up to see what it was like then stopped and took those photos. Even for walkers that would be very dangerous when damp.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby AndrewCowley » Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:02 pm

I think the 100km route for the Spring Cycle used to go along there. I did it a few times. After leaving Prospect Reservoir, I think it went along here and then onto that disused canal. Sound right?

It was fun riding along there. Could get some properly decent speed up. As far as shared path infrastructure goes, it seemed pretty good. Why is it caked in dried mud? Annoying because you wouldn’t think it’d be hard to clean.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:21 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:02 pm
I think the 100km route for the Spring Cycle used to go along there. I did it a few times. After leaving Prospect Reservoir, I think it went along here and then onto that disused canal. Sound right?

It was fun riding along there. Could get some properly decent speed up. As far as shared path infrastructure goes, it seemed pretty good. Why is it caked in dried mud? Annoying because you wouldn’t think it’d be hard to clean.
There is a housing development nearby, land has been cleared and this is probably run-off from when it rains. The housing development is much higher up. I'm guessing that's where it all comes from.

The path now is in bad condition, it is broken up, bits rising up creating tall ramps, caked in mud and silt in places.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby AndrewCowley » Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:41 pm

What a shame. Hope the council fixes it.

Does this join up with the Greystanes Canal? Curious to know if I’ve ridden it.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:13 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:41 pm
What a shame. Hope the council fixes it.

Does this join up with the Greystanes Canal? Curious to know if I’ve ridden it.
That is the Greystanes to Prospect canal.

If you are out earlier in the morning when it is darker and if it is damp, you probably won't see that dirt/mud/silt easily until you are right on it. And the path isn't lit either.

I'm thinking about putting something together and going to the council over this. Someone else will go down eventually and may also get badly hurt.

The fix for this so far appears to be some witches hats put there at the start of this section, nothing more.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby Retrobyte » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:52 am

g-boaf wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:13 pm

I'm thinking about putting something together and going to the council over this. Someone else will go down eventually and may also get badly hurt.
You may know this already, but here's the contact details for the councillors in that Ward ....

Image

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:05 pm

Let’s see if any policies change after tonight.

I’m particularly interested if that mooted cycleway connecting Parramatta to the Opera House might become reality. That would be enjoyable and useful for commuting.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:12 pm

Image

Link: https://www.cumberland.nsw.gov.au/prosp ... masterplan

Prospect Pipeline Corridor Strategic Masterplan.

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:36 am


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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:03 pm

More on the bridge cycleway:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/gre ... 5diea.html

Still lots of angry opponents crying about it. If they want heritage, then let's knock down the modern buildings nearby that aren't part of the heritage.

I'll bet they will resort to putting tacks down or smashed glass when it is completed. :roll:

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Re: Reshaping Sydney - 30km/h streets, parks designed by users, etc

Postby g-boaf » Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:32 pm

viewtopic.php?f=13&p=1598423#p1598423

Prospect Dam locked gates before 7am (and sometimes later in the morning) and after 4:30pm. Proposing to get local MP involved. Any one also want to get involved, or can I take it that people would prefer to ride on the road with cars, buses and heavy trucks?

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