Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:41 pm

SUVs aren't so good for their occupants sometimes either:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 5ef5c328ea

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:03 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:41 pm
SUVs aren't so good for their occupants sometimes either:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 5ef5c328ea
It is a roll over on a beach. What other commonly available vehicle is driving along a beach? Does losing control on a beach where the tyres sink into the sand not seem more possible/probable for unskilled drivers than on a paved road? To increase the footprint of the tyres the pressure will also be significantly lowered too.
I have done a fair bit of driving on sand without tipping over but I am also aware of the potential for it to happen.

I fail to see the point being made and given that, the point of making it sorry. :|
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:07 pm

My family used to have a shack at Teewah Beach, standard operating procedure to get there was to pile into the back of a 4WD ute.

None of us died. The issue in this case was not the 4WD but the driving of the 4WD. I regularly drove up there in my parent's 80 series Landcruiser from my late teenage years unsupervised. Never even had a slight issue, though possibly that's because it was a naturally aspirated diesel and wouldn't actually go fast enough to roll over.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:09 pm

The point is, some folk get in those things and they see themselves in some big strong tank and drive accordingly so. :| No surprise when they get into trouble.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:44 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:09 pm
The point is, some folk get in those things and they see themselves in some big strong tank and drive accordingly so. :| No surprise when they get into trouble.
Which applies to the foolish regardless of which vehicle they are in.

This episode you have posted here is an example of one of those vehicles making use of the design characteristics it possesses. Quite possibly an error has caused it, but I simply dont see errors being eliminated from our driving cohort. Regardless it was not in the city causing congestion, rather being used where a 2wd wont, but it is still worthy of complaint it appears.
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:17 pm

That beach is exactly the sort of area where a 4WD is justified.

A Prado should be entirely sufficient and entirely appropriate for getting there. What I suspect happened is that the Prado was being driven far in excess of what seems now to be the 50km/hr limit on the softer sand and someone inexperienced in driving in those conditions flipped it over.

It used to be an 80km/hr zone. We regularly did 80km/hr - though only on the hard sand. Sand driving has a particular technique to it. Honestly 50km/hr is a far more appropriate speed limit!

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Comedian » Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:45 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:44 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:09 pm
The point is, some folk get in those things and they see themselves in some big strong tank and drive accordingly so. :| No surprise when they get into trouble.
Which applies to the foolish regardless of which vehicle they are in.

This episode you have posted here is an example of one of those vehicles making use of the design characteristics it possesses. Quite possibly an error has caused it, but I simply dont see errors being eliminated from our driving cohort. Regardless it was not in the city causing congestion, rather being used where a 2wd wont, but it is still worthy of complaint it appears.
I've literally done tens of thousands of KM of beach and sand driving and have never rolled a Land Rover yet.

I've driven that particular beach many times. I remember driving it on new years eve a couple of years back. On one hand you've got families swimming and fishing. On the other hand you had drunk bogans setting up for the night. Lots of people already fully lubricated at like 3pm. It was quite an eye opener.

The speed limit through the populated sections is already 50. We need less bogans. :roll:

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Duck! » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:48 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:03 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:41 pm
SUVs aren't so good for their occupants sometimes either:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 5ef5c328ea
It is a roll over on a beach. What other commonly available vehicle is driving along a beach? Does losing control on a beach where the tyres sink into the sand not seem more possible/probable for unskilled drivers than on a paved road? To increase the footprint of the tyres the pressure will also be significantly lowered too.
I have done a fair bit of driving on sand without tipping over but I am also aware of the potential for it to happen.

I fail to see the point being made and given that, the point of making it sorry. :|
The situation itself here is pretty much irrelevant, however it is well documented that UAVs due to their dynamics have a significantly higher risk of rolling over in collisions where normally-proportioned cars will stay on their wheels. And when they fall over, it's a bigger fall/impact for the occupants of said UAV vs regular car.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:29 pm

Duck! wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:48 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:03 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:41 pm
SUVs aren't so good for their occupants sometimes either:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 5ef5c328ea
It is a roll over on a beach. What other commonly available vehicle is driving along a beach? Does losing control on a beach where the tyres sink into the sand not seem more possible/probable for unskilled drivers than on a paved road? To increase the footprint of the tyres the pressure will also be significantly lowered too.
I have done a fair bit of driving on sand without tipping over but I am also aware of the potential for it to happen.

I fail to see the point being made and given that, the point of making it sorry. :|
The situation itself here is pretty much irrelevant, however it is well documented that UAVs due to their dynamics have a significantly higher risk of rolling over in collisions where normally-proportioned cars will stay on their wheels. And when they fall over, it's a bigger fall/impact for the occupants of said UAV vs regular car.
How many "normally proportioned cars" are capable of getting onto the beach and driving on it?
Do their "normally proportioned" approach and departure angles allow them to traverse the ground to get there?
Does their limited suspension travel due to their "normal proportions" allow them to traverse the bumps?
Does their one open differential and lower profile, narrower tyres allow sufficient drive with a larger footprint to traverse the sand?

I wonder what normally proportioned vehicle would have been more suitable on that ground?

Sure vehicles designed for driving on rougher terrain have a higher centre of gravity.
It is necessitated by the increased clearance to allow travel over such ground.
Perhaps drive them appropriately and it isn't a problem. At least that is what my experience has taught me.
Sorry but there are areas outside of the cities where a low slung vehicle isn't the best choice. It appears to me this was one.
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Duck! » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:47 am

I repeat: the fact that the above incident occurred on a beach is irrelevant to the fundamental point that UAVs are more prone to falling over when schidt goes wrong, and are less safe for the occupants than said occupants believe.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:51 am

Duck! wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:47 am
I repeat: the fact that the above incident occurred on a beach is irrelevant to the fundamental point that UAVs are more prone to falling over when schidt goes wrong, and are less safe for the occupants than said occupants believe.
How safe they are to others is more the issue in this thread should you choose to read the title.
How safe said occupants believe they are I am not sure. However the size and mass of some large 4wd vehicles does make them safer for the occupants in a collision with a smaller lighter vehicle which is probably why some are purchased. I disagree with that.


Here is a vehicle being used for the purpose for which it was designed, not as a soccer mum car, however driven inappropriately most likely.
Sure a higher COG equals easier to tip over. Be aware and drive appropriately as you should any vehicle.
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Comedian » Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:09 am

Please understand that I am 100% joking here.

Image

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Comedian » Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:41 pm

You've just got to hope you hit a car smaller than you. As everything gets bigger we will all need bigger again cars...
The three best-selling full-size pick-ups in the US – now sold in Australia in right-hand drive – have received 'poor' ratings in new crash tests by a leading US safety body.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/us-pick-u ... ash-tests/

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby elantra » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:12 pm

Comedian wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:09 am
Please understand that I am 100% joking here.

Image
Do the Teslas have good tie down / towing points for going to the beach and getting rescued by a 4x4 ?

Certainly does not appear to be its native habitat - in the soft white sand !

Actually with towing straps on the beach - in fact anywhere - you do have to be very careful.
Some years ago a bloke was killed on Moreton Island trying to pull another vehicle in the soft sand. A segment of the bull bar of the vehicle being pulled, broke off with the enormous force and flew through the air resulting in catastrophic head injuries. Sad.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:49 pm

elantra wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:12 pm


Actually with towing straps on the beach - in fact anywhere - you do have to be very careful.
Some years ago a bloke was killed on Moreton Island trying to pull another vehicle in the soft sand. A segment of the bull bar of the vehicle being pulled, broke off with the enormous force and flew through the air resulting in catastrophic head injuries. Sad.
Quite a few people have been killed like that. Rated recovery points are essential for extricating stuck vehicles, both on the recovery vehicle and the stuck vehicle. Along with suitable straps and shackles that are also rated appropriately.
Most vehicles do not come with them and they need to be fitted. A tow hook as is on the front of some vehicles is not safe for that purpose.
There are significant forces involved and a broken shackle or hook attached to a snatch strap will fly back to the vehicle where the other end is still attached with significant speed and force!
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Comedian » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:13 pm

elantra wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:12 pm
Comedian wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:09 am
Please understand that I am 100% joking here.

Image
Do the Teslas have good tie down / towing points for going to the beach and getting rescued by a 4x4 ?

Certainly does not appear to be its native habitat - in the soft white sand !

Actually with towing straps on the beach - in fact anywhere - you do have to be very careful.
Some years ago a bloke was killed on Moreton Island trying to pull another vehicle in the soft sand. A segment of the bull bar of the vehicle being pulled, broke off with the enormous force and flew through the air resulting in catastrophic head injuries. Sad.
Nope.. they do not have safe recovery points. Using them on a beach is utter stupidity. Plus if you dip them in salt water all bets is off.

The problem is EVangelists love to post photos of their teslas doing stupid stuff and then boasting "look at how awesome I am... beating nature into submission"

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby elantra » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Worth a read.

Yes, it’s Toyota but not as you know it.
If it comes here (which seems likely) it will be be as a left-hand-drive to right-hand-drive local conversion of the US manufactured vehicle.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 129103?amp

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Regional cities with transit systems 'designed around utes' destined to die, transport expert warns

Postby redsonic » Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:05 pm

We have to stop designing regional cities around utes:

ABC News

Sunshine Coast is planning a fast, efficient bus network.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby fat and old » Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:46 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:51 am



Here is a vehicle being used for the purpose for which it was designed, not as a soccer mum car, however driven inappropriately most likely.
Sure a higher COG equals easier to tip over. Be aware and drive appropriately as you should any vehicle.
Late, but anyway....

Drunken backpackers/gap year types. Most Queenslanders should be well read in this phenomenon...Fraser seems to be the epicentre for that type of moron, Rental Troopies the car of choice. With at least 50psi in the tyres. Doesn't matter a jot about it being a 4wd or SUV or whatever. Drive like a dick, die like a dick.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:49 pm

fat and old wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:46 pm


Late, but anyway....

Drunken backpackers/gap year types. Most Queenslanders should be well read in this phenomenon...Fraser seems to be the epicentre for that type of moron, Rental Troopies the car of choice. With at least 50psi in the tyres. Doesn't matter a jot about it being a 4wd or SUV or whatever. Drive like a dick, die like a dick.
Yes. There is a thread in the patrol forum I am on about stupid beach driving precipitating removal of access.
I wouldn't expect people driving like idiots to be welcomed by experienced beach drivers.
A fair bit of anger in that thread toward it.
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Comedian » Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:15 am

warthog1 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:49 pm
fat and old wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:46 pm


Late, but anyway....

Drunken backpackers/gap year types. Most Queenslanders should be well read in this phenomenon...Fraser seems to be the epicentre for that type of moron, Rental Troopies the car of choice. With at least 50psi in the tyres. Doesn't matter a jot about it being a 4wd or SUV or whatever. Drive like a dick, die like a dick.
Yes. There is a thread in the patrol forum I am on about stupid beach driving precipitating removal of access.
I wouldn't expect people driving like idiots to be welcomed by experienced beach drivers.
A fair bit of anger in that thread toward it.
I went for a drive on Bribie over the break. We drove out via the sand Access track. It's a series of flat sand access tracks through a forrest. Famous for being spectacularly soft with big ruts.

We were nearly out and we come upon this car sitting in the middle of the road and a guy sitting under a tree.

Tyres were literally at 40 so we let them down to 18. Helped him dig a bit and still stuck. He had no recovery gear.

So agreed to snatch him backwards as he didn't have any recovery points but had a towbar.

Pulled him out of that mess and unhooked. He couldn't drive forward or backward (straight down to the axles again) and couldn't turn around.

So I'm like "I'll drag you backwards to the road and you can consider your options". :D So I dragged him backwards for a k or so to the road.

This guy seemed sensible he just had no idea. :shock:

[shareyoutube]https://youtu.be/txP4LUo5Q5s[/shareyoutube]

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby warthog1 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:53 am

Comedian wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:15 am

I went for a drive on Bribie over the break. We drove out via the sand Access track. It's a series of flat sand access tracks through a forrest. Famous for being spectacularly soft with big ruts.

We were nearly out and we come upon this car sitting in the middle of the road and a guy sitting under a tree.

Tyres were literally at 40 so we let them down to 18. Helped him dig a bit and still stuck. He had no recovery gear.

So agreed to snatch him backwards as he didn't have any recovery points but had a towbar.

Pulled him out of that mess and unhooked. He couldn't drive forward or backward (straight down to the axles again) and couldn't turn around.

So I'm like "I'll drag you backwards to the road and you can consider your options". :D So I dragged him backwards for a k or so to the road.

This guy seemed sensible he just had no idea. :shock:

[shareyoutube]https://youtu.be/txP4LUo5Q5s[/shareyoutube]
He is lucky you were there. :)
Hopefully he learns something.
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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Mr Purple » Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:21 pm

Had a bit of an interesting 'SUV' situation on Monday.

Was on the gravel bike, it was raining pretty heavily and I was to the far left of Moss Street in Slacks Creek which is an industrial type area with massive wide roads which was completely empty because it was New Year's Day.

Genius in a lifted GU Patrol comes flying around the corner coming the other way. I assume he'd done that thing where they disconnect the swaybars for optimum off road perormance because the thing pretty much picked up the inside tyre with body roll, then speared off to the right and did a pretty solid job of trying to hit me despite the fact I was on the far opposite side of the road going the other direction.

Would like to see some actual roadworthy infringements on these morons. The thing had at least three defects on it I could see within seconds including the tyres being a mile outside the guards. And the fact he almost crashed on wide and completely empty road was a clue that all was not ok with it.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby elantra » Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:54 pm

Mr Purple wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:21 pm
Had a bit of an interesting 'SUV' situation on Monday.

Was on the gravel bike, it was raining pretty heavily and I was to the far left of Moss Street in Slacks Creek which is an industrial type area with massive wide roads which was completely empty because it was New Year's Day.

Genius in a lifted GU Patrol comes flying around the corner coming the other way. I assume he'd done that thing where they disconnect the swaybars for optimum off road perormance because the thing pretty much picked up the inside tyre with body roll, then speared off to the right and did a pretty solid job of trying to hit me despite the fact I was on the far opposite side of the road going the other direction.

Would like to see some actual roadworthy infringements on these morons. The thing had at least three defects on it I could see within seconds including the tyres being a mile outside the guards. And the fact he almost crashed on wide and completely empty road was a clue that all was not ok with it.

Was there a P-plate on the vehicle ?
There often is on these types of vehicle.

I think that from time to time there is a bit of a law enforcement “blitz” on this type of vehicle in NSW. The inspectors set up beside a major road and all suspicious looking vehicles are pulled over for a check.
Or so I am told.
Assuming that this is in fact what happens, it obviously doesn’t happen often enough.
And the effectiveness of these intermittent roadside checks is reduced I am told because word spreads quickly when they are “in the area”

I see quite a lot of these vehicles. They are scary to watch as they go round roundabouts with crazy excess body roll.

Presumably from time to time they do go off road - especially after a significant amount of rain- they love to go rolling in the mud.
After which they are a bit quieter- either the kid behind the wheel has been able to release some steam or there is so much mud buildup that the exhaust system noise is actually muffled for a change.

The psychology must be very primeval - young driver not long out of school- has got a job earning good money but at the bottom of the rung- discovers a way of exerting more dominance in the world. By getting a big tall loud powerful and potentially unstoppable goliath of a motor vehicle.

They certainly love to be assertive, which is rarely a good thing behind the wheel on a public road.
I saw one living up to the stereotype the other day.
On the main road between Gold Coast airport and Murwillumbah.
Steady stream of traffic on the single lane section, speed limit 100/hr but traffic flow slightly “under speed”.
Got past me Ok in the overtaking lane section but then soon was right up the RS of a vehicle ahead (after the overtaking lane ended).

Appeared to be almost on top of that (smaller) vehicle for the next few km’s until the NEXT overtaking lane.
So brutally unnecessary - there were other vehicles in front so such behaviour was completely pointless.

Despite such hideous road behaviour, it actually wouldn’t surprise me if (outside of his vehicle) the kid is actually a decent bloke.

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Re: Study: SUV Drivers Cause 55% Worse Injuries To Bicyclists They Hit

Postby Mr Purple » Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:31 am

Yep, P plates on it.

In a way they're just the 'modified cars' for the current generation.

Given my generation was making cars less safe by making them lower, they're doing the opposite by making them higher. Given the higher levels of enforcement and strict speed limits I can sort of understand why they're modifying cars to be better off road than on road. Just wish it wouldn't simultaneously make them so dangerous on the road.

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