Sports risks

am50em
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Sydney

Sports risks

Postby am50em » Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:29 pm

Cyclists and horseriders often end up in hospital, but keep returning to the sports they love
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102550542

User avatar
foo on patrol
Posts: 9072
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Sports risks

Postby foo on patrol » Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:15 am

Pfffffft, if you love the sport, you will take the knock downs in your stride. :idea:

You can break bones getting out of bed or walking to the toilet. :P

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km

User avatar
redsonic
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Sports risks

Postby redsonic » Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:38 am

Looking at the injury rates (bar graph), it is not clear if the injuries are per 100 000 of the population, or per participants. I suspect the horse injuries would be higher if it was rated by participant.

am50em
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Sports risks

Postby am50em » Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:13 am

Looking at some reports on https://www.aihw.gov.au/ I think it is per population.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 7272
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Sports risks

Postby bychosis » Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:25 am

Wonder how the stats would change if they separated the teen/twenties MTB riders who go big and go hard and keep going back because of the big adrenaline hits.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8392
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Sports risks

Postby familyguy » Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:25 am

Cool. Now can they do a version that doesn't list cycling as "sport" but puts it in the "transport" category with cars, trucks, motorbikes?

That said, every MTB'er I know has been in hospital at least once. Not so for the roadies.

Mr Purple
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Sports risks

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:19 am

redsonic wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:38 am
Looking at the injury rates (bar graph), it is not clear if the injuries are per 100 000 of the population, or per participants. I suspect the horse injuries would be higher if it was rated by participant.
I think you picked it. Cycling simply has far more participants than the others, therefore has more injuries.

Reminds me of an article in the Courier Mail a few years back complaining that Queensland Health was responsible for 30% of government car crashes. They had 60% of the cars.

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 15469
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: Sports risks

Postby trailgumby » Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:49 am

The correct measure for comparing risk is "per exposure hour" (as in, time spent in the activity that creates exposure to the risk). It can then be broken out by activity niches (eg, dirt jumping versus transportation cycling).

Per 100,000 assumes that everybody spends the same time doing the different activities.

Hospitalisation rates at Bare Creek Bike Park are quite shocking. Council has been forced to start putting in intermediate skills progression parks nearby as peer pressure inevitably leads to kids taking on runs they are not ready for, and emergency staff at Northern Beaches Hospital have started calling for the site to be shut down.

The real problem is that parents drop their kids off and then go home to mow the lawn or watch soaps Netflix, instead of staying to supervise as they are supposed to.

Mr Purple
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Sports risks

Postby Mr Purple » Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:34 pm

I wonder how over-represented (or otherwise) e-bikes are when it comes to mountain bike crashes?

I cut through Daisy Hill on my commute to work yesterday and was almost taken out by two separate morons absolutely belting their e-bikes downhill on the far right side of the fire trail without giving way. Pretty sure if they didn't have e-bikes they wouldn't have got up that hill in the first place.

am50em
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Sports risks

Postby am50em » Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:14 pm

More information about cyclists in this report.

https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/fbff13 ... nline=true
This report looks at injury hospitalisations for pedal cyclists in 2015–16, as well as trend
information for deaths and hospitalisations from 1999–00 to 2015–16.
In 2015–16:
• about 12,000 cyclists were hospitalised due to injuries sustained in a crash—this
was 1 in 5 of the 60,000 people hospitalised due to injury in a land transport crash
• nearly 6 in 10 of hospitalised cyclists were injured in an on-road crash (6,900 or 58%),
and the rest were injured off-road
• nearly 6 in 10 hospitalised cyclists had sustained a fracture, with the most common
injury being a fractured upper limb.
Between 1999–00 and 2015–16:
• 651 cyclists died, an average of 38 deaths a year
• of cyclists who died, nearly 8 in 10 were aged 25 and over, and 9 in 10 were male
• nearly 160,000 cyclists were hospitalised, an average of more than 9,000 each year
• across all ages, the rate of hospitalisation rose by an average of 1.5% each year
• the proportion aged 25 and over rose, while the proportion aged under 25 fell
• modelling showed a non-statistically-significant decline in cyclist deaths of 1% per year.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21491
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Sports risks

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:17 am

foo on patrol wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:15 am
Pfffffft, if you love the sport, you will take the knock downs in your stride. :idea:

You can break bones getting out of bed or walking to the toilet. :P

Foo
Not as likely though.

On the flip side doing nothing you get unfit and unhealthy.

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 6627
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Sports risks

Postby Thoglette » Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:20 pm

am50em wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:14 pm
More information about cyclists in this report.
Which is, again, complete rubbish as long as you bundle "cycling" into one big pot.

This is safe as walking (and likely safer than getting out of the bath)
Image (from Vox on Dutch Cycling)

Whereas this
Image The Week UK
and this
Image
Single Tracks
are completely different.

I was trying to find Richie Porte's downhill stack from a few years back, where he was judged to be "lucky" to break his pelvis and colarbone. That's footage I'll never forget!

Then there's the seriously risky - Ned Hart at Shipstern Bluff last month.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

robbo mcs
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Sports risks

Postby robbo mcs » Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:33 pm

Interestingly the Dutch experience is they have had more people killed in bicycle accidents than car accidents for several years now. That partly reflects their huge participation rate. However, the bicycle numbers have been increasing, even accounting for participation rates. That is felt to be largely due to an increase in elderly riders, and also e-bikes

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/m ... ts-over-75

User avatar
uart
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Sports risks

Postby uart » Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:25 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:20 pm
Then there's the seriously risky - Ned Hart at Shipstern Bluff last month.

Yes, that video nicely illustrates why we need some draconian laws and fines to regulate the following type of activity. /sarcasm
Image

am50em
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Sports risks

Postby am50em » Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:57 pm

robbo mcs wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:33 pm
Interestingly the Dutch experience is ...

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/m ... ts-over-75
Particularly among cyclists over 50 might be more accurate from table in article. May be need smaller age ranges to see where the inflexion point is.
(The code formatting in forum doesn't seem to be working so using list which is not optimal)
  • <25 yrs 25-49 yrs 50-74 yrs >75 yrs
  • Total 111 148 210 268
  • Bicycle 26 18 97 150
  • Car 48 86 43 48

warthog1
Posts: 14413
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Sports risks

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:48 pm

am50em wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:57 pm
robbo mcs wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:33 pm
Interestingly the Dutch experience is ...

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/m ... ts-over-75
Particularly among cyclists over 50 might be more accurate from table in article. May be need smaller age ranges to see where the inflexion point is.
(The code formatting in forum doesn't seem to be working so using list which is not optimal)
  • <25 yrs 25-49 yrs 50-74 yrs >75 yrs
  • Total 111 148 210 268
  • Bicycle 26 18 97 150
  • Car 48 86 43 48
Thanks to you both for pointing out some holes in the fairytale we are often fed.
Dogs are the best people :wink:

User avatar
uart
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Sports risks

Postby uart » Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:53 am

robbo mcs wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:33 pm
That is felt to be largely due to an increase in elderly riders, and also e-bikes
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/m ... ts-over-75
Yes, the graphs in that report are very revealing. The fatality rate for over 75 y.o. cyclists is a massive proportion, now accounting for the majority of all cyclist deaths there. I wonder how many of those over 75 years old would even be cycling at all without e-bikes?

Image

User avatar
uart
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Sports risks

Postby uart » Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:21 am

warthog1 wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:48 pm
Thanks to you both for pointing out some holes in the fairytale we are often fed.
TBH I think that you are just reading into those figures what you want to read. The reality is that the entire uptick in cyclist fatalities there can pretty much accounted for by just the 75+ year old rider fatality rates alone. No fairies or other folklore beings actually needed in that explanation.

It's an interesting dilemma though. On one hand, the health benefits of cycling to people of that age would be absolutely enormous, and there's no doubt that ebikes do enable them to keep cycling into later life. On the other hand however, it seems clear from the Netherlands' data that there are some real problems with the fragility of the elderly and the enhanced speed offered them via ebikes.

warthog1
Posts: 14413
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Sports risks

Postby warthog1 » Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:47 am

uart wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:21 am
warthog1 wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:48 pm
Thanks to you both for pointing out some holes in the fairytale we are often fed.
TBH I think that you are just reading into those figures what you want to read. The reality is that the entire uptick in cyclist fatalities there can pretty much accounted for by just the 75+ year old rider fatality rates alone. No fairies or other folklore beings actually needed in that explanation.

It's an interesting dilemma though. On one hand, the health benefits of cycling to people of that age would be absolutely enormous, and there's no doubt that ebikes do enable them to keep cycling into later life. On the other hand however, it seems clear from the Netherlands' data that there are some real problems with the fragility of the elderly and the enhanced speed offered them via ebikes.
TBH I think some would like to view Dutch cycling as devoid of risk.
I am reading that no, utility cycling is not always safe.
I wonder how many 75 year olds were racing, mtb riding or fast bunch riding?
One of the most frequent calls in my line of work is an older person who has fallen.
Yep, getting on a bicycle carries with it the risk of falling.
Falling and falling at faster speed, increases the risk of negative health consequences.
That applies at any age but the risk increases as age increases
Dogs are the best people :wink:

User avatar
Retrobyte
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:43 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Sports risks

Postby Retrobyte » Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:07 am

warthog1 wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:47 am
One of the most frequent calls in my line of work is an older person who has fallen.
Yep, getting on a bicycle carries with it the risk of falling.
Falling and falling at faster speed, increases the risk of negative health consequences.
That applies at any age but the risk increases as age increases
Yes, this nails it I think. Even comparatively minor falls can cause serious injuries or worse for the elderly. Bones are more brittle, skin tears easily, they can be on blood thinning medication that can exacerbate bleeding and internal bleeding etc. When she was 79 mother had a fall on level ground while walking in a hurry and broke her jaw, shoulder, and several ribs. Not surprised that a fall from a bike if you are over 75 could be nasty even at low speed.

User avatar
Retrobyte
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:43 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Sports risks

Postby Retrobyte » Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:16 am

Thinking back at sports I've participated in during my life, cycling hasn't been any worse really -

Cycling - torn rib cartilege; broken rib; road rash
Rugby league/union - torn ACL (surgery); broken nose; concussion; head cuts
Baseball - torn calf; broken thumb
Cricket - fractured finger
Soccer - fractured foot
Hockey - ten stitches in forehead
Surfing - sutures for fin cut to head
Skiing - concussion

And despite the injuries and risks, I always kept coming back for more :lol:

User avatar
uart
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Sports risks

Postby uart » Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:01 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:47 am
TBH I think some would like to view Dutch cycling as devoid of risk.
I am reading that no, utility cycling is not always safe.
A lot of people (myself included) are impressed with their cycling culture there. Nothing can be 100% safe, but the Dutch cycle a total of close to 20 billion km per year (several billion trips per year), and we're talking about a 200 fatalities p.a. over about a 20 year average.

Last time I compared the statistics there with those of Australia, they had approximately a fifth the number of head injuries per bicycle trip made, and about a third the number by kms travelled.

warthog1
Posts: 14413
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Sports risks

Postby warthog1 » Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:10 pm

uart wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:01 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:47 am
TBH I think some would like to view Dutch cycling as devoid of risk.
I am reading that no, utility cycling is not always safe.
A lot of people (myself included) are impressed with their cycling culture there. Nothing can be 100% safe, but the Dutch cycle a total of close to 20 billion km per year (several billion trips per year), and we're talking about a 200 fatalities p.a. over about a 20 year average.

Last time I compared the statistics there with those of Australia, they had approximately a fifth the number of head injuries per bicycle trip made, and about a third the number by kms travelled.
They have a great deal of separated infrastructure. We don't have this and are unlikely to have it anytime soon.
Greater population density and shorter routes.
I don't see them as comparable.
Sure the infrastructure is an aspiration but I won't be seeing it in my lifetime I don't expect.

Holland is anything but perfect imo.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53261944
Dogs are the best people :wink:

User avatar
uart
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Sports risks

Postby uart » Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:28 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:10 pm
.Holland is anything but perfect imo.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53261944
Resorting to criticisms of racism and colonialism? This is getting way off topic so I"ll bow out.

warthog1
Posts: 14413
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Sports risks

Postby warthog1 » Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:36 pm

uart wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:28 pm
warthog1 wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:10 pm
.Holland is anything but perfect imo.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53261944
Resorting to criticisms of racism and colonialism? This is getting way off topic so I"ll bow out.
I didn't introduce Holland to the discussion, nor did I make a comparison between their cycling injury rates and ours or intimate that they were somehow comparable.
Colonialism?
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/07/euro ... index.html
Simply pointing out that what held up as a cycling Shangri La is not without fault. That seems as valid to me as comparing the fatality rates of 2 places that are so poles apart in terms of cycling infrastructure.

Is it more off topic than mandatory helmet laws?
Glad we are finished discussing such nondense. :)
Dogs are the best people :wink:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: thamete