Recumbent for long distance

tantryl
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Recumbent for long distance

Postby tantryl » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:58 am

I'm not really a bike person, but I've decided I need to become one. Because of my crappy upper back, recumbent is the only sensible option. The ultimate goal is cycling around the Netherlands (and possibly from Paris to the Netherlands) in mid-2011. Probably popping up into Sweden and back at some point, and possibly down to Germany. For training I'll be riding around the Swan and through Kings Park in WA, and eventually doing weekend trips to the southwest of WA and maybe a couple of stretches up north of Perth.

So I need a bike. Or trike. A trike/bike that can be broken down for relatively easy travel, and is relatively easy to construct/deconstruct/maintain (OK, that's a bit of a stretch on a requirement :P feel free to ignore it). A trike/bike that can handle long distances. Netherlands is mostly flat, but WA isn't so I guess that doesn't factor in. I'll need to be able to carry ~25kg of equipment and clothes and whatnot (either on the bike itself, or in a trailer).

I virtually know nothing of recumbents, and frankly even reading through threads like "Newbie to forums looking to getting into recumbents" haven't really taught me anything.

So - what do I need to know? How do I choose a trike/bike? What are the differences between frames, gearing systems, tyres, etc? Are there any recommended maintenance manuals for recumbents? Is there anything I need to know about training (current plan: practise)? What questions should I actually be asking?

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Kalgrm
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Kalgrm » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:07 pm

G'day Tantryl,

Welcome to the forum.

I'll be happy to answer as many questions as I can, but I'm pretty flat out today. If I don't come back to you by Tuesday evening on this, please PM me or bump the thread (by posting anything in it again) and I'll get onto it.

I love my 'bent, and we have a fairly active group here in Perth. You're welcome to meet up with us and discuss the questions you have in person on our next ride (meet us in Freo at our breakfast stop one Sunday).

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
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jaffaman
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby jaffaman » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:23 pm

Don't have a recumbent, but am looking enviously at those that do. There are a few specialist recumbent sellers around Australia - I would start by looking at what they offer on their web sites to get an idea of the range and prices. Greenspeed is one http://www.greenspeed.com.au/trikes.html and even have a folding trike which might be a good fit for what you want. Another recumbent specialist is Flying furniture http://www.flyingfurniture.com.au/index.html. In fact just found this link http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/vichpv/we ... urers.html which lists a bunch of recumbent specialists including the two I mention above.

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bradwoodbr
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby bradwoodbr » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:38 am

tantryl wrote:I'm not really a bike person, but I've decided I need to become one. Because of my crappy upper back, recumbent is the only sensible option. The ultimate goal is cycling around the Netherlands (and possibly from Paris to the Netherlands) in mid-2011. Probably popping up into Sweden and back at some point, and possibly down to Germany. For training I'll be riding around the Swan and through Kings Park in WA, and eventually doing weekend trips to the southwest of WA and maybe a couple of stretches up north of Perth.

So I need a bike. Or trike. A trike/bike that can be broken down for relatively easy travel, and is relatively easy to construct/deconstruct/maintain (OK, that's a bit of a stretch on a requirement :P feel free to ignore it). A trike/bike that can handle long distances. Netherlands is mostly flat, but WA isn't so I guess that doesn't factor in. I'll need to be able to carry ~25kg of equipment and clothes and whatnot (either on the bike itself, or in a trailer).

I virtually know nothing of recumbents, and frankly even reading through threads like "Newbie to forums looking to getting into recumbents" haven't really taught me anything.

So - what do I need to know? How do I choose a trike/bike? What are the differences between frames, gearing systems, tyres, etc? Are there any recommended maintenance manuals for recumbents? Is there anything I need to know about training (current plan: practise)? What questions should I actually be asking?
If you want a bike that will do everything you have listed then you can't go past the new Sigma designed in Perth WA.
If this bike had been around when I started I would have got one. You will not be disappointed.

Check it out at this website. http://www.sigmabike.com/main.html
Test ride at Bike Force South Perth or go direct to the designers.

Cheers
Optima Baron Raptor
Low Racer - Recumbent
http://lowracerrider.blogspot.com/
Rotovelo velomobile

tantryl
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby tantryl » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:56 pm

I might give that test ride a shot, thanks bradwoodbr.

And that list of sellers is also handy, thank you jaffa.

And *bump* for kalgrm :P

Since I don't know much about bikes or recumbents, I was hoping for a little more on why you'd chose what over what - I don't know anything about frames, types of brakes or gearing, tyres, the difference between the low riding trikes and the more elevated ones, etc. etc.

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Leigh_caines
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Leigh_caines » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:04 pm

Well these no ‘one bike’ that is right for everyone
But to get you started on the road to finding the right one for you…
If you need ‘light’ to take it on a plane then 2 wheels are easier then 3 and short wheel base is lighter then long.
Most recumbents will carry a load [as your feet are out the front and you can get more then enough gear on without your feet or heals hitting the load] so you don’t really ‘need’ a trailer [some people like them but they are a hassle on air flights]

The big question is ‘how much do you want to spend?’
If you have a big budget then there are lots and lots to pick from
If you are doing it on the ‘cheap’ then it gets harder

If you are not a bike rider then you need ‘time’ to get your legs into recumbent riding
You also need ‘low’ gearing when you are first starting out [I like low gearing when ever I’m pulling a full touring load]

It’s all out there on the net…. Read “Grazyguyonabike” there are lots of recumbent tours on there.

Good luck on your search

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Kalgrm
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Kalgrm » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:12 pm

G'day Tantryl,

Brad's suggestion of the Sigma was a great one! Although I regularly ride with the guys who designed and built this new bike, I had completely forgotten it. D'oh!

It meets many of your criteria, and it also happens to be one of the cheapest bikes on the market these days. It doesn't "fold" but it can be easily broken down into a package which travels well. Get in contact with John through the web site and take their demo bike for a spin - you'll be impressed.

I chose my bike for various reasons, but those reasons won't be of use to you. Everybody who chooses a particular 'bent does so with certain criteria in mind. Your criteria are different to mine, which were different from Brad's, and so on. Anyway, after saying that, I'll go through my selection process for your benefit.

I bought a Bacchetta Giro 26 because I needed a commuting bike which could punch into the Freo Doctor each afternoon: good aerodynamics were paramount! I wanted disc brakes (all weather commuting), wheels of the same diameter (only one spare tube to carry) and the capacity to carry a decent load (ie panniers). I wanted a high racer (a genre within recumbents) for good visibility in traffic with above seat steering for aerodynamics. Weight was not too important, since Perth has few hills to worry about. The Bacchetta Giro 26 filled all my criteria, and allowed me to use the larger diameter 700c wheel specification, should I choose to do so (and I did, for aerodynamic tyres only 23mm wide). Had the Giro TT frame (an alloy one) been available at the time of my purchase, I probably would have chosen it over the steel frame I have now to reduce the weight a little.

As you can see, my criteria were very different to yours, so my choice of bike does not help you in the slightest. I suggest you list your criteria for selection (ie what you need and want out of your bike/trike) in order of priority and set about researching which platforms meet those needs and desires. Of course, asking here is part of that research, and we may be able to steer you towards certain bikes or trikes.

For a start, trikes are slower than bikes, but are excellent for touring. Under seat steering is very ergonomic, but not as aerodynamic and harder to get used to than over-seat steering. Wheels of the same size front and rear mean you only need to carry one spare tyre and one spare tube when touring. Standard size rims (eg 26" or 700c) offer a greater selection of tyres, and are easier to get.

Lastly, nothing is cheap when it comes to getting 'bent. Don't scrimp by buying an "entry level" recumbent bike if you intend to tour: you'll only be buying the bike you should have bought a little bit later and with less money in your pocket to do so.

Feel free to ask more targeted questions as you narrow the field. We'll help where we can.

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
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Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby froodh » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:06 pm

If you are in Perth, you can give Craig at Just Bents a call www.justbents.com.au

tantryl
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby tantryl » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm

Budget wise, I'm open. I've got two years before I'm heading on the big trip, and while I'd like to start training tomorrow it's not necessary. I'm in the process of buying a new home at the moment, so the money situation is... variable. In that it wouldn't normally be a problem, but due to approval processes I have to be somewhat frugal.

I certainly only want to buy one bike, and don't have a problem spending more if it'll provide serious short and long term advantages. But I may have to wait to make the actual purchase.

I checked crazyguyonabike, and while quite interesting and would seem to be useful when practically planning the actual route and supplies and whatnot, not particularly newb friendly. Most of what they say about their bikes goes right over my head and none of them I've read explain their choices; they're written for people who already know their stuff by people who already know their stuff. So interesting, but I'm too far behind for it to be useful.

Kalgrm wrote: I bought a Bacchetta Giro 26 because I needed a commuting bike which could punch into the Freo Doctor each afternoon: good aerodynamics were paramount! I wanted disc brakes (all weather commuting), wheels of the same diameter (only one spare tube to carry) and the capacity to carry a decent load (ie panniers). I wanted a high racer (a genre within recumbents) for good visibility in traffic with above seat steering for aerodynamics. Weight was not too important, since Perth has few hills to worry about. The Bacchetta Giro 26 filled all my criteria, and allowed me to use the larger diameter 700c wheel specification, should I choose to do so (and I did, for aerodynamic tyres only 23mm wide). Had the Giro TT frame (an alloy one) been available at the time of my purchase, I probably would have chosen it over the steel frame I have now to reduce the weight a little.

As you can see, my criteria were very different to yours, so my choice of bike does not help you in the slightest.
Au contrere! I found that very useful. Helps me know what questions to ask, and that same tyre size tip is great.

Is there somewhere I can learn more about brakes, frame materials, genres (presumably there are ones other than high racer), above/below seat steering and aerodynamics in general? A book, maybe? I'm guessing you guys learned these things over time and experience... I'm trying to jump the queue and find a cheat sheet :P

Considering the Europe riding I'd guess light weight would be best - der Nederland is flat but when I go anywhere else it'll be up and down all the way. What different materials option are there, and what are their advantage and disadvantages?

I just plain like the idea of a trike, I'm not sure why. I'm not looking to set any speed records; but on the other hand when you're going long distances it could add up to take days off big journeys. Hmm. How much of a difference is there, speed wise, between similarly priced trike/bikes?

I'd rather go without a trailer if possible, so I guess something that can take panniers is on the cards (which is tougher on trikes, right?).

So, my attempt at summarising my needs/wants:
- Long distance Europe riding, starting out Perth and Southwest riding (wet and cold weather friendly)
- Ability to carry luggage and equipment suitable for such a journey, preferably without a trailer
- Decent aerodynamics, but not essential
- Preferably a trike, unless a bike would make a massive difference to the above
- Comfy seat for my poor tuchus
- Same wheel sizes
- Brakes? Open to suggestions based on the first two points
- Value for money. While I don't mind spending a few grand, I'd like it to be able to know the practical reasons for the extra costs.
- I'm 5'8.5" and 85kg right now, but will likely be around 70kg by the time I head out in Europe, if that's any help.

So... what else should I be telling you?

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby bradwoodbr » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:13 pm

tantryl wrote: Is there somewhere I can learn more about brakes, frame materials, genres (presumably there are ones other than high racer), above/below seat steering and aerodynamics in general? A book, maybe? I'm guessing you guys learned these things over time and experience... I'm trying to jump the queue and find a cheat sheet :P

This guy knows what he is talking about and has written a book about bikes/trikes you are interested in:
http://www.modularbikes.com.au/book/


Considering the Europe riding I'd guess light weight would be best - der Nederland is flat but when I go anywhere else it'll be up and down all the way. What different materials option are there, and what are their advantage and disadvantages?

In my opinion, with regard to touring, the weight of the bike is least important as it is a small fraction of total weight of rider and equipment.

I just plain like the idea of a trike, I'm not sure why. I'm not looking to set any speed records; but on the other hand when you're going long distances it could add up to take days off big journeys. Hmm. How much of a difference is there, speed wise, between similarly priced trike/bikes?
Trikes are great. Get what you want. There are no rules :wink: .
This guy, from Perth, has done many long tours and journeys on his trike. Check out his trike at: http://personal.exadios.com/Hobbies/Cycling/


I'd rather go without a trailer if possible, so I guess something that can take panniers is on the cards (which is tougher on trikes, right?).

So, my attempt at summarising my needs/wants:
- Long distance Europe riding, starting out Perth and Southwest riding (wet and cold weather friendly)
- Ability to carry luggage and equipment suitable for such a journey, preferably without a trailer
- Decent aerodynamics, but not essential
- Preferably a trike, unless a bike would make a massive difference to the above
- Comfy seat for my poor tuchus
- Same wheel sizes
- Brakes? Open to suggestions based on the first two points
- Value for money.
In my opinion, recumbent bikes are all great value for the money. When you work out what riding you will be doing most of the time, get a bike/trike that suits.

While I don't mind spending a few grand, I'd like it to be able to know the practical reasons for the extra costs.
- I'm 5'8.5" and 85kg right now, but will likely be around 70kg by the time I head out in Europe, if that's any help.

So... what else should I be telling you?

It sounds like you are ready to get out there and ride as many bikes and trikes as you can.
Optima Baron Raptor
Low Racer - Recumbent
http://lowracerrider.blogspot.com/
Rotovelo velomobile

tantryl
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby tantryl » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:26 pm

bradwoodbr wrote: It sounds like you are ready to get out there and ride as many bikes and trikes as you can.
Well, there's a good point. Might as well just get out there and test ride whatever I can get my hands on and see what I like.

Good point about the weight. Since me + equipment will likely weigh 90-100kg, 2kg here or there in the frame isn't going to make a massive difference (looking at the greenspeed.com.au and terratrike.com sites, it seems every trike is 16.5-17.5kg anyway?).

*EDIT* ooer, Catrike brand trikes get down to 13kg.

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby John Lewis » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:33 pm

Hi tantryl,
Been reading along. I've built and tried several bents and concur with what the others say. Try as many as you can,list priorities and go from there.
My wife and I have Logo trikes. We have toured on them round Tasmania and found them ideal. The downside was that we were quite a bit slower. That wasn't a problem as we were in no hurry. We had panniers on the trikes for all our gear. Others have toured with a trailer or a trailer and panniers. Don't make the mistake of trying to take too much gear. You'll end up ditching it or posting it home.

One problem with overseas touring is transporting the bike/trike. This was easier in the past. You may have problems with a trike. I know though that others have taken them in the past. Greenspeed make a folding trike but I've had no experience with them. Within Aus we found Virgin Blue to be the most accommodating. The took our trikes at no extra charge and just partially wrapped in bubble wrap.
John Lewis

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby william » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:19 pm

Hello tantryl,

I gather you are in Perth and if so the recumbent crowd there are very active and have regular rides.
Graeme may give some info here so you may go for a ride with them or meet with them at a starting/finishing place where you'll see many at the same time and get riders opinions. Then you'll get a visual of what they're talking about. Best way to learn I think.

Graeme.... Ahem!

william.

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby exadios » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:06 am

tantryl wrote:I'm not really a bike person, but I've decided I need to become one. Because of my crappy upper back, recumbent is the only sensible option. The ultimate goal is cycling around the Netherlands (and possibly from Paris to the Netherlands) in mid-2011. Probably popping up into Sweden and back at some point, and possibly down to Germany. For training I'll be riding around the Swan and through Kings Park in WA, and eventually doing weekend trips to the southwest of WA and maybe a couple of stretches up north of Perth.

So I need a bike. Or trike. A trike/bike that can be broken down for relatively easy travel, and is relatively easy to construct/deconstruct/maintain (OK, that's a bit of a stretch on a requirement :P feel free to ignore it). A trike/bike that can handle long distances. Netherlands is mostly flat, but WA isn't so I guess that doesn't factor in. I'll need to be able to carry ~25kg of equipment and clothes and whatnot (either on the bike itself, or in a trailer).

I virtually know nothing of recumbents, and frankly even reading through threads like "Newbie to forums looking to getting into recumbents" haven't really taught me anything.

So - what do I need to know? How do I choose a trike/bike? What are the differences between frames, gearing systems, tyres, etc? Are there any recommended maintenance manuals for recumbents? Is there anything I need to know about training (current plan: practise)? What questions should I actually be asking?
These people (among others) have shipped trikes and bikes:

Mal & Lee;
Andrew & Joanne;
Fleur;
Dennis;
and a few others not on the Web. Interestingly, none of these bikes or trikes was made to be transportable on aircraft - so it is possible to do.

Since you live in Perth probably the best thing is to come along on a Sunday ride or meet up with the group and this will give you a chance to think about what you may want. See the WAHPV mailing list Web site for ride times - usually leaving on Sunday morning at 07:30 to Applecross and Fremantle. Many of the people in this group have a lot of experience and are quite capable of talking your ear off about recumbents.

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Kalgrm » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:05 am

william wrote:Graeme.... Ahem!

william.
(See the second post in this thread William ... ;))

Exadios is on the money. Join up on the WAHPV mailing list and take note of when we are riding. Although we usually ride each Sunday, we don't always post details: we just tend to show up and ride. I don't know if there is a ride tomorrow or not yet (the weather has been shocking lately, plus it's Father's Day), but if your back is sore, it might be best to meet us in Freo and chew the (bacon) fat with us. I'll PM you with details if there is a ride.

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby william » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:53 am

Sorry Graeme,

Busy, Busy, Busy you be and me, thats why I missed some parts there.
Always like to help the inquisitive rider since thats where I came from a little over a year ago.
From an experienced (one and a bit years?) rider I cannot see why there are not more, ah! well.

william.

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby tantryl » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:43 pm

Good info.

Will keep an eye on that mailing list and meet you guys up some time.

Anyone have an opinion on the LoGo trikes for what I've described? Specifically, the ones Shani and Tim are selling on the WAHPV page: http://www.wahpv.org/sale_swap.htm.

What are the LoGo ones worth new?

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby exadios » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:52 pm

tantryl wrote:Good info.

Will keep an eye on that mailing list and meet you guys up some time.

Anyone have an opinion on the LoGo trikes for what I've described? Specifically, the ones Shani and Tim are selling on the WAHPV page: http://www.wahpv.org/sale_swap.htm.

What are the LoGo ones worth new?
I have a LoGo trike and I can recommend then for touring. A few have been ridden around Australia so they can do the distance.

I bought mine new for (from memory) $4500 in 2007. In addition Tim and Shani's have Shlumf Speed Drive on the front. And, at least one of them had a Rolhoff hub on the back. These extras are worth some dollars.

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Joeblake » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:27 pm

Hi Tantryl

Another Perthite here (Hills-ian). I ride both a 'bent bike and a 'bent trike, both Greenspeed. If you're going to be doing L-O-O-O-O-O-N-G distances, then I'd suggest three wheels. Slower than two wheels, yes, heavier, yes, a bit more complicated to pack up and transport, maybe. But I've found the trike more comfortable, less tiring to ride (if a little more sedate), larger carrying capacity and just generally better suited to long distance.

Cost - DON'T look for a cheaper option. There isn't one. Quality doesn't cost - it pays. I bought my Greenspeed trike in about 1991, and even allowing for an extended absence due to theft, I'm still riding it in 2009, albeit slightly modified.

Greenspeed has a very nice line of folding trikes to look at.

Trailer - I'll probably go against most people here, but I think a trailer should not be discounted. I've had a BoB Yak for a couple of years now, and it has proven itself invaluable. If you get a folding outfit you'll need transport it while it's folded, so rather than carrying an extra case to put it in, why not strap it to a trailer and wheel the whole lot, luggage, bike and trailer, as a unit?

Here's my (non-folding) trike with trailer attached
Image

And here's the outfit carrying a fold-up (non-recumbent) bike in a bag.

Image

Anyway, whichever you choose, have a great trip.

Joe
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby toofat » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:37 pm

Joe
Every time I see a photo of your rig I imagine it parked up outside some uber trendy coffee shop in subiaco next to all the cervelo's and other racy bling and have a quiet chuckle :lol:
Image

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Joeblake » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:41 pm

toofat wrote:Joe
Every time I see a photo of your rig I imagine it parked up outside some uber trendy coffee shop in subiaco next to all the cervelo's and other racy bling and have a quiet chuckle :lol:
Given that I lived in the Subi area for about 15 years, there's more truth than you imagine.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Joe
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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby Kalgrm » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:59 pm

When I think of that scenario, the Cervelos are leaning against your trike! :D

Cheers,
Graeme
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Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....

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Re: Recumbent for long distance

Postby VFR RIDER » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:40 pm

Greetings Tantlyn

I have been interested in your posts regarding choice of Recumbent, we seem to be reading from the same book.
Your planned trip sounds challenging so good luck with that.
I too was looking for a 'bent bike but think the trike offers more stability and practicality. I seen some
guys on you tube having a drink and lunch on their trikes with their feet up, try doin that on a bike.

Anyway, a foldable trike for travelling WITH suspension (more comfort = more miles), try looking at the ICE (Inspired Cycle Engineering) Trice QNT.

QNT = QUICK NARROW TRACK.

Check out the URL below, the guy claims to have covered 55000 kms on his trike. He makes some good points too.

FYI I am from Perth also so we're fishing in the same pond.


Cheers :) .


http://peter.ca/trikes/how-to-buy-a-trike.html
http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/trikes/qnt.htm

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