Noisy drivetrain
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby am50em » Sun Dec 17, 2023 7:52 pm
The only other mysterious creak turned out to be a crack in the frame. The seat post junction just above bottom bracket.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:23 pm
The cranks came off recently when they were inspected for the DA9100 recall. So anything regarding that would have been done by the shop.am50em wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 7:52 pmI don't know the construction of your cranks, but I had a creak from loose screws that joined the axle to the spider. Took weeks to identify, after tightening the chainring bolts, changing bottom bracket, pedals, relubing seat post and checking every other bolt on the bike!
The only other mysterious creak turned out to be a crack in the frame. The seat post junction just above bottom bracket.
Next thing I'm thinking is one of the chain-ring bolts could be cracked. After removing and installing them again with new grease I could make the sound go away for a while, but then it came back.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby Duck! » Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:46 pm
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby rkelsen » Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:39 pm
Does this mean that nothing on your bike is done up properly because you might need to undo it with a bent paperclip and some chewed gum whilst on tour?baabaa wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:54 amMr Darwin would not be pleased with that comment....
“In the long history of humankind (and animal kind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed.”
― Charles Darwin
it is no coincidence that the words "bike" and "ikea" are four letter words - and for both, the instructions are to be avoided (until too late).
I really have no idea what 40Nm "feels"like but even so, think I would opt to tighten to a basis which I know could/can be undone in the wild (on tour) with the bare minimum of tools ie, a few sticks and a length of number 10 fencing wire.
If I were going touring:
1. I'd want every bolt on the bike done to spec, in order to at least attempt to prevent component failure and premature wear.
2. If I were going to be on tour long enough to wear out a cassette, I'd bring (among other things) a spare cassette and my torque wrench.
Why on earth would you go touring under-prepared?
Yes, I've had to undo stuck freewheels many times and used all sorts of hacks and bodges to remove them... but cassettes are very different, and comparing the two is not at all valid.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby baabaa » Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:10 pm
Re 1 Well yes, I do the same, but most of my bike and parts are more solid vs soft/ light-ish ( think nitto bits as that Goldilocks standard) and tend to triple check every moving part is tight and then carry too many possible wear out or break bits like braze on bolts.rkelsen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:39 pm
If I were going touring:
1. I'd want every bolt on the bike done to spec, in order to at least attempt to prevent component failure and premature wear.
2. If I were going to be on tour long enough to wear out a cassette, I'd bring (among other things) a spare cassette and my torque wrench.
And
2 Not so much wear out but having to remove that cluster when/ if you break a rear wheel drive side spoke or two - again I carry spare spokes and nipples but finger crossed, have never broken a spoke even when touring with a load on rubbish roads/ tracks....
And re freewheel vs cassettes- quite right but more that biking did survive in those dusty pre torque wrench ( and even Torx drive! ) days....
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:41 pm
I can't see any evidence of the chainring split, but will pay attention to it tomorrow - I have a 18% hill I ride up frequently (using small chain-ring) so will take note. That's something I had not thought about (or knew of).
At least the cranks themselves are safe (for now) - good job Shimano that at least my cranks haven't cracked apart.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby WyvernRH » Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:38 pm
Evolution... AFAIK (having lived thru the period in question) SunTour freewheels were all two prong removal until they worked out it was a bad idea and then all versions swapped to four prong removal over a couple of years. Actually, the SunTour two prongs were not too bad if you did the removal properly, at least the notches were buried in the body. If you want difficult and failure prone freewheel removal try Regina two prong freewheels and all the European clones that copied them where the notches were in a flange that stuck out of the freewheel!
There were various tools made by small manufacturers back in the 70's/80's for tourists that used the chainstay as lever to undo a freewheel. Some actually worked . Sort of assumed you had a chunky steel touring type chainstay tho....
Richard
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby Duck! » Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:36 pm
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby Duck! » Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:42 pm
Remove the chainring to inspect it properly. If there is any splitting, it will propagate from the mount tabs and work out, so will be very difficult to spot if still on the bike. Like the cranks, the seam between the inner & outer parts is visible on the inboard face of the ring.g-boaf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:41 pmI can't see any evidence of the chainring split, but will pay attention to it tomorrow - I have a 18% hill I ride up frequently (using small chain-ring) so will take note. That's something I had not thought about (or knew of).
At least the cranks themselves are safe (for now) - good job Shimano that at least my cranks haven't cracked apart.
Other cues to possible splitting are excessive chain/FD noise, and/or poor front shifting in a certain sector of the crank rotation due to buckling of the ring.
However modern lightweight, thin-walled frames are excellent resonators, so it's very possible the noise is coming from somewhere else entirely! When I got a bike in the workshop for a supposed bottom bracket/crank noise, usually the first place I'd look at was the headset, and more often than not it was the source of the noise!
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:20 pm
The front chainrings/derailleur shifts very nicely, there is also no noise from the chain - it's very quiet.Duck! wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:42 pmRemove the chainring to inspect it properly. If there is any splitting, it will propagate from the mount tabs and work out, so will be very difficult to spot if still on the bike. Like the cranks, the seam between the inner & outer parts is visible on the inboard face of the ring.g-boaf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:41 pmI can't see any evidence of the chainring split, but will pay attention to it tomorrow - I have a 18% hill I ride up frequently (using small chain-ring) so will take note. That's something I had not thought about (or knew of).
At least the cranks themselves are safe (for now) - good job Shimano that at least my cranks haven't cracked apart.
Other cues to possible splitting are excessive chain/FD noise, and/or poor front shifting in a certain sector of the crank rotation due to buckling of the ring.
However modern lightweight, thin-walled frames are excellent resonators, so it's very possible the noise is coming from somewhere else entirely! When I got a bike in the workshop for a supposed bottom bracket/crank noise, usually the first place I'd look at was the headset, and more often than not it was the source of the noise!
I ended up trying some loctite on the chainring bolts (loctite 243), this definitely quietened it down and reduced the noise but didn't stop it totally. Back to the drawing board. I will inspect the chainrings again, if still no good I'll take it to a bike shop.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby am50em » Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:16 pm
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:43 pm
Today’s result was quieter running for about 40km but definitely quieter overall. Still some creaking but nothing like before.
Aside from creaking the rest of the drivetrain is silent.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby Andy01 » Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:24 pm
https://www.bikeride.com/torque-specifi ... Chainrings
This indicates 8-11Nm for Shimano steel and 5-10Nm for Shimano aluminium.
Chainring spider to crank arm is much higher if that is what you were doing - 50-70Nm
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:24 am
I double checked and it’s definitely 12-16Nm according to dealers manual page 21:Andy01 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:24 pm15Nm seems to be at the high end for chainring bolts.
https://www.bikeride.com/torque-specifi ... Chainrings
This indicates 8-11Nm for Shimano steel and 5-10Nm for Shimano aluminium.
Chainring spider to crank arm is much higher if that is what you were doing - 50-70Nm
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/dm/RAFC0 ... 02-ENG.pdf
For the hexalobular chainring fixing bolts. The manual linked is for 9200 but I checked 9100 and was the same.
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/dm/RAFC0 ... 02-ENG.pdf
Page 33 - so I’m in the specified range.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:52 am
I guess the freehub body will need replacing - it should have DT Swiss 240S - but I wouldn't mind changing it totally to DT Swiss 180.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby baabaa » Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:59 am
While not a Xentis, you may enjoy this....g-boaf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:52 amI found the problem - seems to be the rear wheel hub on the Xentis 2.5SL wheels. The problem is where the cassette goes on that has gouges in it and it's probably the creaking coming from that. I was able to grease that a bit and tighten the whole thing again, it's quieter.
I guess the freehub body will need replacing - it should have DT Swiss 240S - but I wouldn't mind changing it totally to DT Swiss 180.
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:29 am
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Re: Noisy drivetrain
Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:59 pm
I've swapped over to Fulcrum alloy wheels which are considerably newer (but heavier) for now as shelling out for a DTSwiss 180 rear wheel hub is not part of my plans (or budget) at the moment.
So the bike is running silently again.
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