Autonomous cars? I think not

[Thoglette]

A bit early to declare the start of the Butlerian Jihad however Reuters reports: Waymo driverless taxi set alight by crowding San Fran

[redsonic]

Following some links in Thoglette's article above, two collisions come to light that may have contributed to anger against Waymo:

Pedestrian dragged for 12m as car fails to recognise them trapped

The report itself made clear a human would have done better.
"After the AV contacted the pedestrian, an alert and attentive human driver would be aware that an impact of some sort had occurred and would not have continued driving without further investigating the situation," Exponent said.

Cyclist obscured by a truck turns across robotaxi's path
This one looks like a situation where many human drivers would also have hit the cyclist.



Of course, the crowd in Thoglette's article may not have cared about the cyclist and pedestrian and just enjoyed an opportunity to destroy a Jaguar.

[zebee]

The things I've seen about both those are interesting. The dragged one seems to be that the car stopped and then moved itself to the side of the road, taking the ped with it. A human driver probably wouldn't, but a mate of mine was dragged motorcycle and all for some metres while dopey driver processed it.

The cyclist hidden by truck is trickier. It was a 4 way stop meaning the cyclist should have stopped when they got to the stop line and if they had done so they would not have been hidden. On the other hand, the driverless car should not have proceeded into a spot it couldn't see.

Those 4 way stops are common in the US in places we'd put roundabouts. There's one in Belmore that I cross 3 or 4 times a week and there's always someone who is confused by it. And not often but often enough to be careful about, someone who does what the cyclist did and just rams through behind another car.

[Thoglette]

Missy Cummings on Autonomous vehicles in IEEE Spectrum
5 Questions for Missy Cummings: The Former Fighter Pilot on why Autonomous Vehicles are so Risky
One page, five questions, worth reading.

Takeaways: assisted drivers speed more; “partial” autonomy is very dangerous, and

It's possible to do self-driving in narrow applications. ……. But the day when AI in cars can handle all conditions on the road, all of the time—it's not going to be in my lifetime.

There’s a bit more from her in her role at the NHTSA out there: I’ve previously linked to
WHAT SELF-DRIVING CARS TELL US ABOUT AI RISKS
But to remind

While a language model may give you nonsense, a self-driving car can kill you.

[Cyclophiliac]

Yes, that's why software for aircraft, and on the ground for air-traffic control systems, has very stringent safety requirements, because some software bugs can kill.

[redsonic]

Thanks for the links. Interesting. This quote from the second article Thoglette linked to is one of the things that worries me the most as a motorcyclist:

It now appears that self-driving cars experience roughly twice the rate of rear-end collisions as do cars driven by people.

It would not be fun to be concertinaed between multiple vehicles because the autonomous car in front of me decided to slam on the brakes at nothing.

Another point to note is the rabid trolling a female expert gets online because she dares to voice a controversial (?) opinion. The unmediated internet is a cesspool.

[find_bruce]

reminded me of this quite close to where I live in Melbourne - no idea on outcome...

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-hit ... autopilot/


"Ms Agrawal had previously told Melbourne Magistrates Court her Tesla Model 3 was being driven in ‘autopilot’ mode at the time of the crash.

In court yesterday, The Age reported, veteran tram driver Glenville Pereira said he was stopped and waiting for a passenger to board when a Tesla vehicle went “whooshing” past and struck the pedestrian."

It seems Sakshi Agrawal was not entirely honest about the auto pilot being on & has instead pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and failing to stop.

In fact what happened was that a "vulnerable road user" was detected and the car also triggered alerts for a potential collision. Ms Agrawal was intent on getting past the tram & bugger the pedestrian, didn't brake, was traveling at 58 km/h when she hit the pedestrian & sped up to escape at 78 km/h in the seconds after the crash.

Just a lovely human being

[mikesbytes]

reminded me of this quite close to where I live in Melbourne - no idea on outcome...

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-hit ... autopilot/


"Ms Agrawal had previously told Melbourne Magistrates Court her Tesla Model 3 was being driven in ‘autopilot’ mode at the time of the crash.

In court yesterday, The Age reported, veteran tram driver Glenville Pereira said he was stopped and waiting for a passenger to board when a Tesla vehicle went “whooshing” past and struck the pedestrian."

It seems Sakshi Agrawal was not entirely honest about the auto pilot being on & has instead pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and failing to stop.

In fact what happened was that a "vulnerable road user" was detected and the car also triggered alerts for a potential collision. Ms Agrawal was intent on getting past the tram & bugger the pedestrian, didn't brake, was traveling at 58 km/h when she hit the pedestrian & sped up to escape at 78 km/h in the seconds after the crash.

Just a lovely human being

Someone's life is less important than a few seconds of someone's time

[MichaelB]

reminded me of this quite close to where I live in Melbourne - no idea on outcome...

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-hit ... autopilot/


"Ms Agrawal had previously told Melbourne Magistrates Court her Tesla Model 3 was being driven in ‘autopilot’ mode at the time of the crash.

In court yesterday, The Age reported, veteran tram driver Glenville Pereira said he was stopped and waiting for a passenger to board when a Tesla vehicle went “whooshing” past and struck the pedestrian."

It seems Sakshi Agrawal was not entirely honest about the auto pilot being on & has instead pleaded guilty to dangerous driving and failing to stop.

In fact what happened was that a "vulnerable road user" was detected and the car also triggered alerts for a potential collision. Ms Agrawal was intent on getting past the tram & bugger the pedestrian, didn't brake, was traveling at 58 km/h when she hit the pedestrian & sped up to escape at 78 km/h in the seconds after the crash.

Just a lovely human being

Aside from the inexcusability of the actions from the driver, the fact that

Agrawal spent two years fighting charges of dangerous driving causing serious injury and failure to stop, but changed her plea to guilty on the eve of a County Court trial that was due to begin last week.

despite knowing (or had to have known along with the lawyer) that he 'reasoning' could never stand up in court, I will remain hopeful that she will at least receive the maximum sentence.

[find_bruce]

"The dangerous driving charge carries a maximum jail term of five years, while the failure to stop offence could see her jailed for up to 10 years." She won't get the maximum, but somewhat ironically the tesla warning is likely to result in a significant sentence.

Nothing however is going to fix the injuries suffered by nurse Nicole Lagos

[warthog1]

"The dangerous driving charge carries a maximum jail term of five years, while the failure to stop offence could see her jailed for up to 10 years." She won't get the maximum, but somewhat ironically the tesla warning is likely to result in a significant sentence.

Nothing however is going to fix the injuries suffered by nurse Nicole Lagos

True.

In an emotional victim impact statement, Ms Lagos described the confusion when she woke in hospital and was unable to remember anything from the crash.

She said the incident had left her with permanent disabilities, including brain damage.

Ms Lagos, who was 26 when the crash occurred, feared it would leave her unable to find a life partner and start a family.

"Life without dreams is pretty grim. There's nothing to work towards," she said.

"Every time I pass a car or see a tram, it's a reminder that this has happened to me."

[antigee]

"The dangerous driving charge carries a maximum jail term of five years, while the failure to stop offence could see her jailed for up to 10 years." She won't get the maximum, but somewhat ironically the tesla warning is likely to result in a significant sentence.

Nothing however is going to fix the injuries suffered by nurse Nicole Lagos

True.

In an emotional victim impact statement, Ms Lagos described the confusion when she woke in hospital and was unable to remember anything from the crash.

She said the incident had left her with permanent disabilities, including brain damage.

Ms Lagos, who was 26 when the crash occurred, feared it would leave her unable to find a life partner and start a family.

"Life without dreams is pretty grim. There's nothing to work towards," she said.

"Every time I pass a car or see a tram, it's a reminder that this has happened to me."

Not often that I get angered by a defendant's lawyers statements...just doing their job...

"Defence barrister Nick Papas, KC, said Agrawal was remorseful and had since acknowledged the Tesla was not on autopilot. He said his client made a bad decision to try to beat a tram, causing Lagos and her family extraordinary trauma."

(from coverage in TheAge)

try to beat a tram? pushing the focus on an object when the defendant took a risk that endangered human life