the Crazy eDevice rider thread

[elantra]

There was a fair bit of publicity in the media yesterday about a media interview given by officials representing the “Northern Beaches Council” - Manly district, NSW.
Including the Mayor, about their “e-bike safety” promotion campaign :

From a News outlet:
“It advises riders to slow down to walking pace when sharing the footpath, ring the bell to alert others you’re approaching and be prepared to avoid people, pets and prams.”
“Unfortunately, police are unable charged riders under the age of 16 with any offence and are only able to seize the bike and caution the rider”

In other words, police can’t do very much at all.
It seems that local knowledge amongst adolescents (not just Manly but probably most parts of urban Australia) is that the police are no problem at all so they can act in defiance of the law and with impunity.

The same day I see an advert for 2ndhand Fiik Hooligan brand ebike - on a BICYCLE Marketplace site
“The bike easily seats 2 as it has a large seat and foot pegs. I’ve had this bike up to 76 km/hr”

Could be coming to a street / footpath near you - and no need to worry about any rules or consequences (to others) if the rider is under 16.

[Mr Purple]

For an insight into just how lawless the situation is in Queensland currently this thing was at school pickup today.



No idea what it was, but close to two metres long, two seats with two helmets (presumably picking a primary school aged child), key start, indicators and brake lights. No plates of course. I would be very surprised if it weighed less than 70-80kg.

That's an unregistered motorbike. It meets precisely no other criteria. The fact that the standard mum thinks she can ride an unregistered motorbike to school to pick her kid up (also illegal) suggests that absolutely no-one is enforcing these laws.

Still not as bad as the middle aged guy on a similar device who rides into the school grounds and parks it there, usually doing 30km/hr+ at the time.

[jasonc]

Record week for me. I saw 4 - Four - legal escooters this week. Not bad considering I normally see one a week

[warthog1]

For an insight into just how lawless the situation is in Queensland currently this thing was at school pickup today.



No idea what it was, but close to two metres long, two seats with two helmets (presumably picking a primary school aged child), key start, indicators and brake lights. No plates of course. I would be very surprised if it weighed less than 70-80kg.

That's an unregistered motorbike. It meets precisely no other criteria. The fact that the standard mum thinks she can ride an unregistered motorbike to school to pick her kid up (also illegal) suggests that absolutely no-one is enforcing these laws.

Still not as bad as the middle aged guy on a similar device who rides into the school grounds and parks it there, usually doing 30km/hr+ at the time.

That thing is ridiculous!

[Bunged Knee]

For an insight into just how lawless the situation is in Queensland currently this thing was at school pickup today.



No idea what it was, but close to two metres long, two seats with two helmets (presumably picking a primary school aged child), key start, indicators and brake lights. No plates of course. I would be very surprised if it weighed less than 70-80kg.

That's an unregistered motorbike. It meets precisely no other criteria. The fact that the standard mum thinks she can ride an unregistered motorbike to school to pick her kid up (also illegal) suggests that absolutely no-one is enforcing these laws.

Still not as bad as the middle aged guy on a similar device who rides into the school grounds and parks it there, usually doing 30km/hr+ at the time.

What the???
Braking distance between 3 to 5 metres depending on speed with 2,000w motor.
Looks similar to this and there's more different one's if using the google lens.

https://www.trsports.com.au/product/esc ... mdx11-blk/

[Mr Purple]

Thanks, yep. That's exactly it.

I'm a bit torn about what to do with these idiots. I've never seen that woman riding it dangerously at least, though she's breaking laws when we take it out. The other guy riding a slightly different one needs a visit from the police - not only is it flagrantly illegal he also rides like a moron.

Really the main problem is the system up here being so broken that people get away with anything.

[elantra]

…….

Really the main problem is the system up here being so broken that people get away with anything.

Yes it sort of shatters the facade that the Police “Force” (or Service as it is named in Qld) is a force to be reckoned with and respected for its professionalism and competence.

It’s obviously none of the above, not due to the ineptitude of its coal-face workers but due to its mandate and resources allocated by the government.

I’m sure that it riles you because you were educated to expect professionalism from government and public officers because high levels of professionalism is expected of you in dealing with the public.

It looks like the Police Force/Service is becoming just another branch of Emergency Services - don’t bother calling them unless your life is in imminent danger.
Old-fashioned Preventative Policing and presence in the community now appears to be in the “too hard” basket.

[Mr Purple]

Yeah, I don't even blame the police.

There are precisely no legitimate reasons something like that should be able to be sold in this country. The authorities need to cut down at the point of importation and sale - basically 'if this isn't engineered and registered for use on the road it's illegal to import'.

None of this 'private property only' BS. There would be a handful of private properties in the country with enough tarmac to justify something like that.

[redsonic]

Yeah, I don't even blame the police.

There are precisely no legitimate reasons something like that should be able to be sold in this country. ...
None of this 'private property only' BS. There would be a handful of private properties in the country with enough tarmac to justify something like that.

Ironically, I sold a (legal) electric trike to someone wanting to use it to traverse miles of tarmac at his work at Warner Bros Movie World. So, cases do exist but I agree, the law needs to be changed to stop these electric motorcycles at point of sale.
There is a business here on the Redcliffe peninsula that is hiring out fat wheeled, electric bikes similar to the photo above. He's obviously not concerned about enforcement.

[Retrobyte]

I passed an e-scooter "rider" one morning this week on a shared path - he had a milk crate mounted to the scooter and he was seated.

[CmdrBiggles]

It makes me squirm. Surely parents are not hitching their kids on that thing?
And surely not, whoever runs the traffic and licensing system in Queensland turns a blithely blind eye to it?
The machine looks like a scaled-down Harley Davidson soft-tail! And what happens if that and the rider(s) are involved in an accident?

One can see plenty of 'monkey bikes' on the roads at breakneck speed here in Geelong, not sure if they are on-road registered, but they are tiny and seemingly very powerful machines, driving on the open road, not in any marked lanes, bike or otherwise.

[Anrai]

One can see plenty of 'monkey bikes' on the roads at breakneck speed here in Geelong, not sure if they are on-road registered, but they are tiny and seemingly very powerful machines, driving on the open road, not in any marked lanes, bike or otherwise.

Not sure if it's the kind of bike you're talking about but I was recently recommended a "Surron Rideout" video on Youtube, in which a large number of young-appearing individuals on these and similar bikes gathered to ride around Melbourne streets on ANZAC day, ending in dispersal when the police started making arrests. So, there's definitely a significant number of these bikes around the Victorian cities.

[Mr Purple]

It makes me squirm. Surely parents are not hitching their kids on that thing?
And surely not, whoever runs the traffic and licensing system in Queensland turns a blithely blind eye to it?
The machine looks like a scaled-down Harley Davidson soft-tail! And what happens if that and the rider(s) are involved in an accident?

One can see plenty of 'monkey bikes' on the roads at breakneck speed here in Geelong, not sure if they are on-road registered, but they are tiny and seemingly very powerful machines, driving on the open road, not in any marked lanes, bike or otherwise.

I suspect the 'monkey bikes' you are talking about are something along the lines of Honda Z series (monkey), Suzuki Grom. In which case they're usually fully street legal 125cc and I have no issues (except as you've said if they're riding illegally).

The problem we're facing as alluded to above is that the general perception now seems to be 'it's electric, so it's ok'. Those 'Surron' referred to above are 6kW 50kg dirt bikes that cost $6-7k. Looking quickly at the Honda motorbike website that buys a decent petrol motorcycle that can be fully road registered (and has ABS in many cases).

The people that are choosing to buy electric equivalents for the same price are either people that don't want to pay registration, or people that don't have licences (or both). It's crazy that the police are not treating them as the criminals they are and routinely charging them for riding unregistered vehicles unlicenced. I suspect the reason for that is that they're largely children, so the solution needs to be 'you can't buy these devices at all in this country'.

Coupled with the fact the stupid things are routinely burning houses down you'd think it would be a no brainer. But no, we're extremely overregulated except when it comes to high powered death machines that may explode; in which case it's a free for all. Bizarre stuff.

[elantra]

…….
The problem we're facing as alluded to above is that the general perception now seems to be 'it's electric, so it's ok'. Those 'Surron' referred to above are 6kW 50kg dirt bikes that cost $6-7k. Looking quickly at the Honda motorbike website that buys a decent petrol motorcycle that can be fully road registered (and has ABS in many cases).

The people that are choosing to buy electric equivalents for the same price are either people that don't want to pay registration, or people that don't have licences (or both). It's crazy that the police are not treating them as the criminals they are and routinely charging them for riding unregistered vehicles unlicenced. I suspect the reason for that is that they're largely children, so the solution needs to be 'you can't buy these devices at all in this country'.

Coupled with the fact the stupid things are routinely burning houses down you'd think it would be a no brainer. But no, we're extremely overregulated except when it comes to high powered death machines that may explode; in which case it's a free for all. Bizarre stuff.

I know, it does my head in.
Australian bureaucracies have become so analy retentive since the computer age started. No such thing as calling a spade a spade these days.

Some spheres of human activity probably are over- regulated.
Friends who work in the building industry tell me about all the silly hoops that they have to jump through on building sites.

Medical -how over complicated is CME ? VR ? Accreditation ? Etc.
Various bureaucracies have employed themselves on the issue of gross mal-distribution of medical workforce since the mid-1980’s, that’s 40 yrs ago!
But have failed to deliver effective or sustainable solutions.
Active transport committees meet in Australian cities discussing how to solve traffic issues and get more people on bicycles and public transport.
They don’t seem to have waken up to the fact that shiploads of e-devices are being imported into Australia and are solving some of their problems but creating others - lots of others.

[Mr Purple]

Medical -how over complicated is CME ? VR ? Accreditation ? Etc.
Various bureaucracies have employed themselves on the issue of gross mal-distribution of medical workforce since the mid-1980’s, that’s 40 yrs ago!
But have failed to deliver effective or sustainable solutions.
Active transport committees meet in Australian cities discussing how to solve traffic issues and get more people on bicycles and public transport.
They don’t seem to have waken up to the fact that shiploads of e-devices are being imported into Australia and are solving some of their problems but creating others - lots of others.

Medical CME/accreditation? OMGosh.

AHPRA recently moved from a triennial reporting system to an annual system. They require 50 hours of CME annually over 3 different domains as well as a written learning plan. There is absolutely zero evidence that this improves medical education or outcomes, and when this was pointed out to them they simply said 'deal with it'. 50 hours is more holiday leave than most doctors take every year, depending on salary it may represent tens of thousands of dollars to deal with unnecessary bureaucracy. Someone did the research recently and worked out as a doctor to fulfill every single evidence based guideline takes an average equivalent of 13 hours every working day. Doing our job perfectly is literally impossible.

Practice accreditation is even worse. We officially have the best practice manager in the universe and were apparently the first practice to pass this year without major issues, after hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars invested. To give you an idea, our practice manager was switched on enough to have 'safety data sheets' for the blue-tac holding up posters in out waiting room. And they asked for it.

And yes, if you want to import and sell 5kW e-scooters with high-powered lithium batteries with no battery management that can't legally be ridden anywhere except private property and will probably explode when charged that's absolutely fine.

I suspect it's actually part of a wider societal problem. If you're meant to be a responsible individual like a doctor, teacher or lawyer we impose absolutely the highest expected standards of behaviour to you that you're in no way able to fulfill. Yet if you're not, absolutely no minimum standard of behaviour is imposed on you whatsoever. Do what you like.

[uart]

Medical CME/accreditation? OMGosh.

AHPRA recently moved from a triennial reporting system to an annual system. They require 50 hours of CME annually over 3 different domains as well as a written learning plan. There is absolutely zero evidence that this improves medical education or outcomes,

And then they complain when the cost of providing those affected services continues to rise.

[CmdrBiggles]

[...]
@Mr Purple
And yes, if you want to import and sell 5kW e-scooters with high-powered lithium batteries with no battery management that can't legally be ridden anywhere except private property and will probably explode when charged that's absolutely fine.


Hang on.
A 5kW e-scooter!? That would be frighteningly powerful. Even a 1,400w scooter is very powerful. Where did that number come from??

I can assure you lithium batteries in e-scooters do have a management system. The problem is with quality.
There are bad (e-scooter) seeds in the market, true, but reputable retailers steer clear of these. The problem with my first scooter was the parlous, absolutely poor assembly quality of the wiring electronics. That was a MEARTH GTS scooter that caught fire at 15km/h in February 2022. Once the top plate was removed, police and the fire investigator noticed the most amateurish, poorest quality electronic assembly, and this is for a product made in Sydney, with the quality of parts well below par. The controller checked out (not at fault, but these usually are ground-zero for strife), but connections from that to the battery and especially distribution wiring, was something you would more likely see in a third world country - - connections were taped together and corroded; only four joints were soldered.

The lithium battery caught fire (scorching the railings of the bridge I was crossing) because four wires contacted the chassis and shorted the battery. The resulting conflagration was something to behold.

Police in Victoria are actively confiscating and impounding over-powered e-scooters. They are hauled off on tilt-trays. Good-o.
The current Victorian e-scooter trial is bedevilled with major failings in environment, regulation and enforcement. Other than occasional stormy scenes of e-scooters being hauled aside for questioning by roaming police, I don't see this mess changing one jot until the Government makes up its mind just what it wants to do with e-scooters as a useful, economic and integrated transport option. Separate infrastructure to avoid profound conflict with cyclists and pedestrians is a priority I have run past Melbourne City Council, but their hands are tied waiting for a decision from higher up!

Meanwhile, life and lawlessness goes on.

[Mr Purple]

[...]
@Mr Purple
And yes, if you want to import and sell 5kW e-scooters with high-powered lithium batteries with no battery management that can't legally be ridden anywhere except private property and will probably explode when charged that's absolutely fine.


Hang on.
A 5kW e-scooter!? That would be frighteningly powerful. Even a 1,400w scooter is very powerful. Where did that number come from??

Plenty around 4-5kW. But if you want the mother of all stupid things you'll need a Dragon Hurricane - 6720W.

https://bikescootercity.com.au/products ... 6720-watts

53kg, 105km/hr. $4k.

[CmdrBiggles]

[...]
@Mr Purple
And yes, if you want to import and sell 5kW e-scooters with high-powered lithium batteries with no battery management that can't legally be ridden anywhere except private property and will probably explode when charged that's absolutely fine.


Hang on.
A 5kW e-scooter!? That would be frighteningly powerful. Even a 1,400w scooter is very powerful. Where did that number come from??

Plenty around 4-5kW. But if you want the mother of all stupid things you'll need a Dragon Hurricane - 6720W.

https://bikescootercity.com.au/products ... 6720-watts

53kg, 105km/hr. $4k.

Interesting. That business is where I bought my Dragon.

But...how are they able to sell such extreme scooters in Queensland?? Come on, 105km/h!? You have a bingle at that speed and it's a chilly place with a toe tag, for sure.

(But then, Tour de France riders often get up to 100km/h+, Chris Froome (?) being an example a couple of years back.)

[jasonc]

Come on. As I have stated many times. I see on average one legal pmd per week. The rest are speeding. Not 27, but I got overtaken by one yesterday. I was doing mid 30s. Garmin varia says 41. The ads say private land use. Yeah right. I encourage more police forces around Australia to enforce the existing laws. The wild West is scary

[vbplease]

https://bikescootercity.com.au/products ... 6720-watts

53kg, 105km/hr. $4k.

And a range of 110km.. it looks like this was designed for a meth-head wanting to get from the GC to Brisbane on the M1 at 2am on a Sunday morning

[MichaelB]

Plenty around 4-5kW. But if you want the mother of all stupid things you'll need a Dragon Hurricane - 6720W.

https://bikescootercity.com.au/products ... 6720-watts

53kg, 105km/hr. $4k.

From the sites "Description Link"

WHO THE DRAGON HURRICANE IS FOR:

Adventure Seekers: Add excitement to your urban adventures.
Urban Commuters: Say goodbye to traffic jams and hello to freedom on wheels.
Students: Navigate campus effortlessly and on time.
City Explorers: Discover new neighborhoods and attractions with a thrilling ride.
Eco-conscious Individuals: Choose sustainable transport without compromise.
Tech Enthusiasts: Enjoy cutting-edge technology and design.

and important safety gear

INTELLIGENT SAFETY FEATURES

Stay safe with bright LED headlights and taillights, full Hydraulics + ELECTRIC REGEN brake system for and Card system ultimate protection.

What the ......

[antigee]

^^^^had a quick look to see if FAQ gave any advice on legality...no mostly about the top speed being dependent on various stuff ( but not the law), ID and shipping. (full stop)

[Mr Purple]

^^^^had a quick look to see if FAQ gave any advice on legality...no mostly about the top speed being dependent on various stuff ( but not the law), ID and shipping. (full stop)

It's completely illegal, even in Queensland. But only because it's 7cm over the maximum legal length limit.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety ... ty-devices

Otherwise it's perfectly fine according to the PMD descriptions, even with a top speed of 105km/hr. It even meets their maximum weight limit.

Because unlike e-bikes e-scooter riders are responsible human beings who of course won't exceed the 25km/hr mandated speed limit for their devices despite their device having close to 7kW and being able to do over four times that limit. Is there a sarcasm font on this forum?

I'm with Jason. Apart from rental scooter riders (who are almost all riding unhelmeted) I see possibly one or two e-scooters being ridden legally a week.

[jasonc]

"They just want to go a little bit faster than 25"
https://www.facebook.com/share/C2R2tWGh ... tid=kL3p88
Note the foot rests