Commuter bike advice - coping with hills

[jools]

I'm getting back into regular commuting after some time off the bike due to a change in job location which made the commute less of a joy. Previous ride was mostly flat cycle paths with some small hills to climb. New route is into the city with more hills, steeper climbs and more traffic (pedestrians / bikes / cars..) so it's more work and much less relaxing.

My regular bike is an Oppy S1 steel frame, drop bar with disc brakes which is nice to ride but its on the heavy side and climbing hills kills me. I usually start the week off all excited about riding, but towards the tail end of the week I'm feeling wiped out and not so keen on getting on the bike.

I'm going to get a second bike so that I have a backup ride and have been looking into something that would make the climbs easier and be a bit more motivating to ride, either something a bit lighter and more agile like a flat bar roadie, or an e-bike.

The flat bars I've looked at are Cannondale Quick 1, Trek FX sport 4 and Giant Fastroad. So far I've only taken a Cannondale for a test ride, but it was at least 1 size too small and the carbon version, so maybe not a valid test... The bikes certainly feel substantially lighter to pick up compared to the current ride.

Some of the weight on the current ride comes from the panniers carrying clothes, bike lock, breakdown kit (tools and spares etc). The Oppy copes with the weight quite well but I'm worried that adding this weight to the back of a lighter bike with shorter chainstays may upset the handling.

Does anyone here have any experience with these types of bikes? Do they cope ok with a load? Will a few kgs less in bike weight make a noticable difference when it comes to climbing hills? I know that an e-bike will definitely cope with the load and the hills but I don't think the handling will be as involving as a lighter, more responsive bike. It's a bit like trying to choose between a sports car and an SUV - which compromise to make...?

Whichever way I go, racks, panniers and mudguards are mandatory as I will be riding in all conditions, but the flat bar is optional, I may also look at a gravel bike with drop bars, something more sport oriented rather than touring.

I plan on riding the current steelie for a few more weeks before making any decisions, to see if my climbing abilities improve noticably and make the decision a bit easier.

Any thoughts / experiences gratefully appreciated!

[brumby33]

you need something with much lower gearing like a triple chainwheel set 46/36/24
At the same times you'll want something solid that'll take panniers day after day
You'll need guards to keep the splashing down to a minimum.
You'll need good lighting from a dyno set up that will also double as a mobile phone charging station.

Answer: Vivente World Randoneur
ok not light but they make the best commuter bikes...you shouldn't notice the weight with the low touring style gearing. Best value for an all equipped bike for under $2.8K
all you need is pannierrs...nothing else!!

https://viventebikes.com/recent-models

He has the recent models on another webpage than his current models which has been recently updated to include mostly Rollhoff hub models which are around $4800.....bit much for a commuter but you'll never break 'em ...they are a bike for life!!

[Thoglette]

If you want to buy another bike, buy another bike. But don't blame the weight of the bike for your problems with hills. If you want to save some weight leave the lock at work.

You've already hit the nail on the head: you're going out way too hard on Monday (it's not a race) and you've got no hill fitness. Relax a bit and enjoy the ride. If you're running out of gears, fix that.

P.s e-bikes are many things but "agile" is not one of them.

[brumby33]

If you want to buy another bike, buy another bike. But don't blame the weight of the bike for your problems with hills. If you want to save some weight leave the lock at work.

You've already hit the nail on the head: you're going out way too hard on Monday (it's not a race) and you've got no hill fitness. Relax a bit and enjoy the ride. If you're running out of gears, fix that.

P.s e-bikes are many things but "agile" is not one of them.

And e-bikes are freaking heavy if you run out of battery power....

[10speedsemiracer]

why not mod the Oppy?
Throw a compact crank on there, and maybe get the cassette up to 28t if it isn't already..add some stiff, light wheels and quick rolling rubber, job done.
I say this not knowing what's on your bike currently, although I note that the recent models were Claris 8sp with 50/34 cranks and an 11-32t cassette. The recent models also show 35mm rubber, and maybe a drop to 32 or even 28 would help the average speed without sacrificing too much comfort etc..

[jools]

Modding the Oppy is not out of the question, but since I discovered the cracks in my Dawes Audax frame it's my only bike and I want to have a second bike in case one is ever off the road. It is indeed running Shimano Claris compact 50/34 and 11-32. The cheapest option would be to go 46/30 up front and 11-34 in the rear, this shouldn't require any mech changes, but it will shorten the top gear and there are a few places where a 52 up front would be nice.

I could go triple, but this would require an FD, shifter, granny ring and middle ring. I'll look into costs, the Claris is a decent groupset for the price.

As for the second bike, if I were to put it into car terms, I'd call the Oppy a family hatchback. I would also call the VWR a family hatchback, albeit a much better one. I don't think I want another hatchback, but I can't decide between sports car and SUV.

My concern with the sports car is that the reduced weight won't actually make all that much difference when it comes to climbing hills and that adding the required baggage on the rear will ruin the handling, which would defeat the purpose of the exercise. I just wanted to see if anyone here had experience with loaded-up flat bar.

I'm intrigued by the Orbea Gain, which is a lightweight ebike with a bit less assistance than regular ebikes, but with a weight under 14kg making it very similar to the Oppy. Finding one to test ride is a bit difficult though as it's a fairly new model..

[10speedsemiracer]

Modding the Oppy is not out of the question.....

Pardon my silly question, but do you still have the no-name 35mm tyres on there? Dropping to something like a 32mm or even a 28mmMaxxis Re-fuse (or other road-oriented rubber) would probably make a noticeable difference.

[RonK]

My concern with the sports car is that the reduced weight won't actually make all that much difference when it comes to climbing hills...

Such a bike will almost certainly come with higher gearing...

[jools]

Modding the Oppy is not out of the question.....

Pardon my silly question, but do you still have the no-name 35mm tyres on there? Dropping to something like a 32mm or even a 28mmMaxxis Re-fuse (or other road-oriented rubber) would probably make a noticeable difference.

Sorry, forgot to mention, I'm running Schwalbe marathon plus in 32mm. Front wheel is standard, rear is the stock hub laced with better spokes to a Mavic A319 rim. I popped a bunch of spokes on the rear wheel within the first couple of days of owning it so I worked out a deal with the shop to have it rebuilt.

I started a thread about the Oppy when I was researching before purchase: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=88603&p=1331786#p1327507

[RobertL]

I plan on riding the current steelie for a few more weeks before making any decisions, to see if my climbing abilities improve noticably and make the decision a bit easier.

Any thoughts / experiences gratefully appreciated!

Your climbing abilities will improve over a few weeks, and you will wonder what all the fuss is about.

Changing your bike to one of those that you have named will only save 3 or 4kg, which is about 3 or 4% of your all-up weight (making some assumptions, but close enough). That's a big difference if you are racing, but stuff-all for commuting. You already have a 34-32 lowest gear, which is pretty low.

I reckon just stick with it and you will naturally improve.

Of course, if you really want to buy another bike...

[RonK]

Modding the Oppy is not out of the question.....

Pardon my silly question, but do you still have the no-name 35mm tyres on there? Dropping to something like a 32mm or even a 28mmMaxxis Re-fuse (or other road-oriented rubber) would probably make a noticeable difference.

Sorry, forgot to mention, I'm running Schwalbe marathon plus in 32mm. Front wheel is standard, rear is the stock hub laced with better spokes to a Mavic A319 rim. I popped a bunch of spokes on the rear wheel within the first couple of days of owning it so I worked out a deal with the shop to have it rebuilt.

I started a thread about the Oppy when I was researching before purchase: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=88603&p=1331786#p1327507

Marathon Plus a millstone around your neck when going up hills. Why would you bother?

[Thoglette]

Marathon Plus a millstone around your neck when going up hills. Why would you bother?

Just looked them up. 730 grams each. Same as a bidon full of water. The ubiquitous Conti gp4000 is half that weight. Then there's the light stuff.

[10speedsemiracer]

Modding the Oppy is not out of the question.....

Pardon my silly question, but do you still have the no-name 35mm tyres on there? Dropping to something like a 32mm or even a 28mmMaxxis Re-fuse (or other road-oriented rubber) would probably make a noticeable difference.

Sorry, forgot to mention, I'm running Schwalbe marathon plus in 32mm. Front wheel is standard, rear is the stock hub laced with better spokes to a Mavic A319 rim. I popped a bunch of spokes on the rear wheel within the first couple of days of owning it so I worked out a deal with the shop to have it rebuilt.
....

More stupid questions (actually quite relevant..) but are you running the Schwalbes at low pressure or do you have them up around their max (which I think is 75psi). I find the Marathons are acceptable rollers when there's a bit of pressure in them.

[jools]

I usually run 80-90psi, the tyres read 95psi max. 80 is a little more comfortable but 90 rolls better. I realise the SMPs are heavy, but I've never had a flat, they last for ages and can handle the different conditions I ride through.

It's probably also worth mentioning, I weigh around 120kg at the moment, plus another 10-15kg of bags, tools, clothes etc.. it's a bit of a load.. I'm trying to lose a lot of that excess weight, but it will take time.

The ride in was a bit easier today after a few days break and I think that another couple of weeks of consistent riding will make a big difference.

I do want to have a second bike set up for commuting so that I have a backup, but reading some of your very useful comments has me reconsidering my options. I'm thinking that maybe I need to look at a triple setup so I have a granny ring for the climbs and a big ring for the faster downhills. I'm also having second thoughts about the flat bar, maybe drop bars are more versatile.

[Calvin27]

Marathons are quite draggy irrespective of weight. Try some folding 28c gatorskins.

But the two factors are weight and fitness, they will both get better in time. Like cyclists say, it doesn't get easier, you just get faster.

[jools]

Calvin, your signature mentions ebike - is this something you ride often?

[10speedsemiracer]

I usually run 80-90psi, the tyres read 95psi max. 80 is a little more comfortable but 90 rolls better. I realise the SMPs are heavy, but I've never had a flat, they last for ages and can handle the different conditions I ride through.

It's probably also worth mentioning, I weigh around 120kg at the moment, plus another 10-15kg of bags, tools, clothes etc.. it's a bit of a load.. I'm trying to lose a lot of that excess weight, but it will take time.

The ride in was a bit easier today after a few days break and I think that another couple of weeks of consistent riding will make a big difference.

I do want to have a second bike set up for commuting so that I have a backup, but reading some of your very useful comments has me reconsidering my options. I'm thinking that maybe I need to look at a triple setup so I have a granny ring for the climbs and a big ring for the faster downhills. I'm also having second thoughts about the flat bar, maybe drop bars are more versatile.

Honestly, I wouldn't move to the triple just yet, I feel a triple crank is a slightly drastic step. Is there any way you can shed some of the baggage, maybe leaving clothes/shoes at work etc? The only other thing I would recommend is ensuring the bike is in the best condition it can be in. Free-rolling hubs, smooth BB, brakes that don't drag and a nice fresh chain/cogs are all part of making sure the bike is working with you, not against you.

[jools]

The bike is in pretty good shape - I spent a few hours on the weekend cleaning, lubing, adjusting etc and it is all as good as it can be. You're probably also right about the triple, in a few weeks time I probably won't need the lowest gears. I do have a 3x9 setup taken from the Dawes Audax with the broken frame and I also have an old Dawes Galaxy frame laying around waiting to be restored and built up. However, I'm not sure this will be the answer - the Galaxy has about 122mm rear dropout spacing so I'd need to get at least a rear wheel to fit. The front is fine and has a dynamo hub, but this would mean going back to rim brakes and I would much prefer to have hydro discs.

[10speedsemiracer]

For the backup bike, I'm thinking maybe find a high-quality steel late 80s/early 90s frame and transplant the 3x9 on that, although will mean rim brakes. Something nice like a Shogun/Apollo/Fuji/Nishiki or even a good 80s Repco/Malven Star which in most cases would fit 28s easily and have standard frame dimensions (BB shell, headset etc).
I do a few of these (neo-resto/restomod, whatever) and they end up being very nice to ride, but I'm a little bit of a retro-grouch (I like steelies)

[10speedsemiracer]

Alternatively, if the Galaxy is a steelie, then the rear end could be re-spaced if needed (quite easily). Understand your reticence re rim brakes, but for a backup, if good calipers are used with good pads (like KoolStops) then the drop off in performance isn't too severe.

[Thoglette]

It's probably also worth mentioning, I weigh around 120kg at the moment, plus another 10-15kg of bags, tools, clothes etc.. it's a bit of a load..

Ok, well that justifies the tyre and pressure choice. Light weight tyres aren't going to last long with that set up.

If you're going to bike number 2, see if you can get some bigger tyres under it. I'm commuting with around 60% of your total load and consider 32mm the minimum for commuting. That'd be about 45mm for you.

[jools]

I couldn't decide and ended up getting both

Brothers from another mother:



Actually it was more a case of circumstances rather than decisions... a friend of mine has an e-bike business and was selling his demo bike to upgrade to a new model, so in late January I picked up his 2017 Riese & Muller Charger with upgraded lights, brakes and computer for a big discount. It was a good decision as I've been riding it daily and only used public transport twice since getting it.

With the ebike I'm not concerned at all about hills whereas previously I would go out of my way to avoid them. I've also reduced the assistance level to 50% to get more of a workout while riding, so as a consequence my hill climbing ability has actually improved much more than expected.

Over the easter break I was browsing gumtree and ended buying 3 more bikes - 2 are projects and the third is a 2014 specialized sirrus comp, with 105 gears and hydro disc brakes which was going for a good price. It's needed some work and I have just finished it off and looking forward to riding it to work one day this week.

[opik_bidin]

I couldn't decide and ended up getting both

Brothers from another mother:



Actually it was more a case of circumstances rather than decisions... a friend of mine has an e-bike business and was selling his demo bike to upgrade to a new model, so in late January I picked up his 2017 Riese & Muller Charger with upgraded lights, brakes and computer for a big discount. It was a good decision as I've been riding it daily and only used public transport twice since getting it.

With the ebike I'm not concerned at all about hills whereas previously I would go out of my way to avoid them. I've also reduced the assistance level to 50% to get more of a workout while riding, so as a consequence my hill climbing ability has actually improved much more than expected.

Over the easter break I was browsing gumtree and ended buying 3 more bikes - 2 are projects and the third is a 2014 specialized sirrus comp, with 105 gears and hydro disc brakes which was going for a good price. It's needed some work and I have just finished it off and looking forward to riding it to work one day this week.

Asking for A bike advice
Thought about modding
Ended up doing n+++

Typical

[jools]

Asking for A bike advice
Thought about modding
Ended up doing n+++

Typical

Gotta explore all the options!