Carbs on the bike?

[Jean]

Hi,

After years of patchy riding, I've been back on the bike a lot this year and the Sunday rides are starting to expand towards the 3-hour mark (mostly in zone 2 HR, I don't use a power meter). 'Back in the day' I didn't think about nutrition much – plain water, a banana or two in the pocket, maybe a stop at a bakery etc. But I'm older now, and am inclined to pay more attention to nutrition, particularly as I have weight to lose thanks to years of patchy riding.

There's plenty out there recommending 60–90 grams of carbohydrates per hour for long rides (90 minutes and beyond) and hard training efforts (which I'm not really doing yet), appreciating that it can be different for different people. But the thing I can't quite figure out from Googling is when to start eating on those long rides? Does the hour count start from minute 0.00, or do you start about an hour in, presuming you've eaten something suitable within 15 minutes of starting your ride?

Cheers

[Mr Purple]

In my experience the importance of on the bike nutrition is greatly exaggerated outside very specific circumstances.

For long races, yes, it's essential. But for training rides up to three hours I don't even slightly worry about it. Just have a decent load of carbs before the ride and eat everything in the house afterwards.

The only time I've had the slightest problem was in a six hour 160km gravel race where I just couldn't work out how to eat anything while in a group doing 30km/hr+ on dirt. Otherwise you might lose a bit of motivation and energy in the last 10km on a 100km ride but that's about it.

Too often I see people loading up with gels on a shortish training ride when their main intention is weight loss and fitness anyway, rather than actually going fast. Seems a bit counterproductive.

[Jean]

But for training rides up to three hours I don't even slightly worry about it. Just have a decent load of carbs before the ride and eat everything in the house afterwards.

I take your point, and I have long done much the same, but I'm realising that 'eating everything in the house afterwards' is not great for me as doesn't work well with the overall weight loss effort. Being ravenous on Sunday afternoon = eating too much (often way too much) of the wrong thing because anything in range is fair game.

My recent experimenting suggests that fuelling during the ride helps a lot in this regard (and accords with the 'fuel your workout' idea, even if my workouts are not that intense at the moment). How much fuelling is useful, how much is overkill, and when to start it when I'm riding, is what I'm still figuring out.

[foo on patrol]

Blanket advice is not good. Everyone is different and fitness levels dictate if you need food replacement.

Pigging out before a ride is not a smart idea, you can become lethargic or sick and that, accomplishes nothing.

Foo

[Mr Purple]

Blanket advice is not good. Everyone is different and fitness levels dictate if you need food replacement.

This is the long and short of it, and applies to me as well!

Nothing irks me more than 'this works well for me so it is absolutely what you should do for every circumstance', so I should have not been so dismissive myself.

Personally I feel that eating on the bike causes more nausea than eating beforehand, so that is what I tend to do. In terms of carbs on the bike you can calculate based on your weight and time, the tricky bit is getting them down without stopping. On the few occasions I take snacks on a training ride it's usually a Cliff bar or similar at the turnaround point. And I stop to eat it.

And yes the first hour counts. But I usually cheat over the first hour by eating beforehand - in a race or event in particular the first hour is critical in terms of pack position and it's hard enough to get into the right spot without trying to cram something in your mouth at the same time.

[antigee]

we're all different but I have similar issue on 3hr rides...that is if i don't eat I just get really hungry thru to include the next day so I've started fuelling earlier and consistently...remembering that anything you eat takes around 40minutes to actually have any impact

there are some good podcasts out there on the topic: Trainer Road one's can be very very long (and I take the Doggo out for an hour in the morning) and emphasise racing but go into a lot of detail. The Wahoo one's (whilst still around) are a little "twee" in presentation but are short and to the point...this link is just for reference as could search topics...should be available from your regular podcast provider if you have such a thing

https://the-knowledge-by-wahoo-sports-s ... m/episodes

search fueling

edit this was specific I was thinking of:

"Fueling the Ride: A Weight Loss Journey for Cyclists"
"Fueling the Ride: A weight loss journey for cyclists, where Dr. Jinger Gottschall and Coach Jeff Hoobler share the latest research, strategies, insights, and tips to fuel your body for weight loss and peak performance while cyc...

JANUARY 27TH, 2023 | 19:59 | E71

not a clicky link

[nickobec]

I fuel for performance not weight loss, so I heavily fuel my rides.

I usually have 80g of carbs in a 600ml bottle and aim to consume a 600ml bottle an hour. Add a handful of lollies and it 100g of carbs per hour.

If I am doing a 2 hour plus ride, I start as soon as I am on the bike and usually keep going until the end of the ride* as
1: I will do my efforts VO2max, sprints etc at the end of an endurance ride, so I need to be fuelled for the efforts
2: To aid recovery, often ride 90 minutes, race and then ride home for 90 minutes and keep fuelling on the ride home, albeit at a lower rate, so I can recover quickly and ride the next day
3: To control my weight and make sure I don't get home after a ride and eat everything in sight.

* If I have a recovery day the next day I often do not fuel the last hour. If I want to lose weight I do it by reducing fuelling on recovery days not on riding days.

[foo on patrol]

Blanket advice is not good. Everyone is different and fitness levels dictate if you need food replacement.

This is the long and short of it, and applies to me as well!

Nothing irks me more than 'this works well for me so it is absolutely what you should do for every circumstance', so I should have not been so dismissive myself.

Personally I feel that eating on the bike causes more nausea than eating beforehand, so that is what I tend to do. In terms of carbs on the bike you can calculate based on your weight and time, the tricky bit is getting them down without stopping. On the few occasions I take snacks on a training ride it's usually a Cliff bar or similar at the turnaround point. And I stop to eat it.

And yes the first hour counts. But I usually cheat over the first hour by eating beforehand - in a race or event in particular the first hour is critical in terms of pack position and it's hard enough to get into the right spot without trying to cram something in your mouth at the same time.

This is why I mentioned the "blanket" advice, I have a mate that can't eat on rides, so he has fluid type fuel in the biddon only.

Never had that problem, so long as the mouth is moist. If your mouth is dry, then you have left things to long with hydration.

Another thing that is overlooked is fitness. Sometimes a person that doesn't have good fitness needs to fuel very early in a ride, just so that they can continue, even if only doing 50-60Klms, so riding faster is not an option at all but riding at a tempo pace and having that bit of go juice can allow them to get those K's in and help with creating a base level of fitness too work with and progress. Nothing is "black n white" in my books with training and racing, hence why I say to those that are looking for advice/help......Listen to everyone, whether old or young (in terms of coaching/training) and take from it what works best for you.

I'm not a boxed/normal thinker in life and I am constantly looking at different ways of doing things, whether in work based or bike based fitness. Just because someone says this is how it's done, I will question it and pull it apart then look for other ways of achieving that goal. I have a Masters World Champion that will ask me about things and we will work together on how he can do better and that has included how he sits on the bike. He also has the lead in Flying 200mtr record for Rockhampton Velodrome, betting Ryan Bailies time and also beating the young gun from the Aus Institute of Sport that was 20yrs his junior.

Foo

[MichaelB]

And there I was thinking the OP meant something like this ....

[DernyDriver]

In my experience the importance of on the bike nutrition is greatly exaggerated outside very specific circumstances.

Perfectly said

[g-boaf]

Blanket advice is not good. Everyone is different and fitness levels dictate if you need food replacement.

Pigging out before a ride is not a smart idea, you can become lethargic or sick and that, accomplishes nothing.

Foo

This is something I agree with. Eating moderately before and through out the ride is what works best for me on big rides - and I don't mean the weekend flat 100km coffee ride.

However it's usually not so much the eating is the worry for me but drinking enough - going on long steep climbs in 35ºC+ just destroys you. Bugger all air flow to cool you down, maybe you get respite in shaded areas. God help you if you are in that concrete canyon with its 21 bends - like an oven.

[Mr Purple]

And there I was thinking the OP meant something like this ....

Oohh. Triple webers!

As someone who owns both a Mini with a single sidedraft DCOE (10l/100km in 1275cc) and a Valiant previously possessing a 265 hemi (15L/100km on a 2bbl carter) I hate to think what the combination of three webers on a 265 would achieve. Presumably about 100L/100km. But it would sound good.

[g-boaf]

How about 6 webers on a 5L V12.

Sound is pretty intoxicating especially without aftermarket exhausts.

Anyhow, we'll get in trouble for going off topic soon.

[DernyDriver]

I had twin DCOE 45s on my Datsun. I ran 3 mufflers but my brother could hear me doing a run over in the Royal National Park from our house at Lilli Pilli

[P!N20]

Approved

[grump]

I agree with other posts that say you shouldn't follow blanket advice.

Your need for carbs is a very individual thing. Even two people with the same size/weight, on the same type of bike, and same style of riding can have very different nutrition needs.

If you don't have a medical condition that affects your metabolism, it is probably safe to experiment, and find what suits you. Start conservative (not too much carbs) and increase or decrease based on how it goes. Work out if you need to eat an hour or two before riding, need to fuel up just before you ride, or if you need to carry food with you.

If you do have a medical condition, or are getting into cycling after a break, are overweight/underweight, then seek medical advice before you start. There are quite a few medical conditions that affect metabolism, and can be triggered by a change in exercise regime (particularly if you've been inactive, working in office, etc for some time). The effects of those conditions are highly variable between individuals, but generally either make you reliant on medications to control weight (no matter how well you diet or exercise) or you need to become VERY strategic both in how you eat and how you exercise.